Re: [Tagging] Ambiguous translations of waterway=dam - should be moved to man_made=dam
On Thu, Apr 16, 2015 at 07:16:22AM +0300, Dave Swarthout wrote: > I think redefining waterway=dam is gonna be a hard sell for most Americans. > But now thanks to this list I understand why some reservoirs I've worked > with in Thailand have had the name of the dam applied to the water behind > them as well. As you probably know, many reservoirs in the U.S. have names > that are different from the names of the dam that formed them, Lake Mead > and the Hoover Dam, Lake Roosevelt and the Grand Coolee Dam, are just two > of the better known ones. The dam and the water impounded behind it usually > have different names. > > Even though I can agree that dams are man_made there are roughly 200K uses > of the waterway=dam tag. You have a lot of convincing ahead of you. not all of the dams are man_made, beavers are busy builders. Richard ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Money transfer amenities
2015-04-15 18:51 GMT+02:00 Bryce Nesbitt : > "Western Union" is a branded money transfer service offered at many > other types of businesses -- including convenience stores, some banks, > pawn shops and in some countries post offices. > yes, but I have looked only at those instances which call themselves "Western Union" (name=WU), while this will have omitted those places that offer western union services as an additional service. *The generic services seem to be:* > * Currency exchange (e.g. Dollars for CN ¥) > * Low Income Lending (e.g. Payday loans, Tax refund anticipation loans, > Auto Title Loans, Generic Unsecured Loan Sharking). > * Check cashing (for people without access to a bank). > * Money Transfer (e.g. Western Union, TransferWise). > * Pawn (borrow money against value of goods left at the store). > > +1 What about places that only buy gold(en objects)? Are they pawns as well? > > *We'd then have the following "top level symbols":* > * bank > * money_services (non-bank money services mostly for low income people) > * bureau_de_change (restricted to only currency exchange for wealthy > travelers) > * pawnshop > not sure if I'd put the pawnshop in this category, because it opens a whole field of similar stuff (e.g. second hand shops of different types). Around here, also post offices offer services similar to banks (i.e. they do have a banking department). Cheers, Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Ambiguous translations of waterway=dam - should be moved to man_made=dam
On Thu, Apr 16, 2015 at 7:41 AM, Richard Z. wrote: > not all of the dams are man_made, beavers are busy builders. I want to be the first one tagging a beaver_made=dam :-) ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Ambiguous translations of waterway=dam - should be moved to man_made=dam
On 16/04/2015, Nelson A. de Oliveira wrote: > On Thu, Apr 16, 2015 at 7:41 AM, Richard Z. wrote: >> not all of the dams are man_made, beavers are busy builders. > > I want to be the first one tagging a beaver_made=dam :-) Seems like you could be the first, but then you'd be introducing yet another scheme, as some beaver dams are already tagged : http://overpass-turbo.eu/s/8Pb http://overpass-turbo.eu/s/8P8 http://overpass-turbo.eu/s/8Pf http://overpass-turbo.eu/s/8Pi All seem to be single-contributor attempts, nothing clearly established yet. For what it's worth, I quite like "waterway=dam, dam=beaver" :) Damned, no beavers in my area, I'll have to find something else instead. landuse=industrial population=1000 height=0.3 levels=40 roof:shape=dome material=paper building=wasp_hive :p ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Ambiguous translations of waterway=dam - should be moved to man_made=dam
Some very original tagging here: natural=beaver_hut (???) Also. two of those dams are tagged with layer=2. Could that possibly be true? (LOL) I quite love this too: landuse=industrial population=1000 height=0.3 levels=40 roof:shape=dome material=paper building=wasp_hive Cheers, Dave On Thu, Apr 16, 2015 at 4:38 PM, moltonel 3x Combo wrote: > On 16/04/2015, Nelson A. de Oliveira wrote: > > On Thu, Apr 16, 2015 at 7:41 AM, Richard Z. wrote: > >> not all of the dams are man_made, beavers are busy builders. > > > > I want to be the first one tagging a beaver_made=dam :-) > > Seems like you could be the first, but then you'd be introducing yet > another scheme, as some beaver dams are already tagged : > > http://overpass-turbo.eu/s/8Pb > http://overpass-turbo.eu/s/8P8 > http://overpass-turbo.eu/s/8Pf > http://overpass-turbo.eu/s/8Pi > > All seem to be single-contributor attempts, nothing clearly > established yet. For what it's worth, I quite like "waterway=dam, > dam=beaver" :) > > Damned, no beavers in my area, I'll have to find something else instead. > landuse=industrial > population=1000 > height=0.3 > levels=40 > roof:shape=dome > material=paper > building=wasp_hive > > :p > > ___ > Tagging mailing list > Tagging@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging > -- Dave Swarthout Homer, Alaska Chiang Mai, Thailand Travel Blog at http://dswarthout.blogspot.com ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Money transfer amenities
On Thu, Apr 16, 2015 at 4:02 AM, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: > not sure if I'd put the pawnshop in this category, because it opens a whole > field of similar stuff (e.g. second hand shops of different types). Around > here, also post offices offer services similar to banks (i.e. they do have a > banking department). In the USA a pawn shop and a secondhand shop would not be confused. The pawn industry is really set up for "short term loans", much like a cash version of a bank: http://pawnshopstoday.com/ They do a lot of business in jewelry. -- Other than pawn shop, these low income services tend not to have dedicated buildings. A given shop may offer bail bonds, money changing, western union, all from one location. In the USA there is a strong class and social separation between customers at banks and the check cashing/pawn/remittance places. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
[Tagging] Tagging of pitches within a campsite
I'm opening discussion on how to best tag individual pitch numbers within a campsite. There are a variety of schemes in use from "tourism=caravan_site" on each node to "campsite=pitch,ref=XXX". This scheme seems to work fairly well: http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/37815651#map=18/36.49277/-121.14681 But differs from the wiki. (note good rendering, but missing the dump station, and the ranger station (also reception, park HQ, and grocery). ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Tagging established, unofficial and wild campings
>>> At most they will be access=permissive. Public implies an inalienable >>> right of access supported by law. >> >> Permissive implies something *far different to me*. It means that I can >> walk onto the property without prior arrangement, and chances are nobody >> will hassle me. > > +1 > a camp could be "access=permissive" (trespassing tolerated) or > access="private" / access=customers where private and customers seem > similar. access=yes /public (a right for everyone to access) is not a situation I > have ever encountered on a camp site, but it might eventually exist. access=public is the norm for USA national and state park campgrounds. No gates. Anyone can walk in for day use, but permission is required to hold a given spot or stay overnight. Private campgrounds may be access=customers or rarely access=permissive. There's a strong difference between "day use" and "overnight use". Day use fees may apply, or fees for certain activities like showers or RV dumps. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
[Tagging] internet_access usage in parks (and other open areas)
We are having a discussion in talk-br about internet_access in parks and other open areas. From http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:internet_access and from what I understand, it's a characteristic of the place/object (so it should not exist without a building, amenity, tourism, shop, leisure or other kind of place). If the park offers wifi, then the park should have a internet_access=wifi But there are people seeing it different: it should be used at the spot where the access is offered (where the access point is locate), since there is no guarantee that people will have wifi signal at every place of the park. For me this second view is incomplete, since we won't be able to find or tell if a shop, park or anything else offers Internet access. Also, there isn't any statement in http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:internet_access that assures that the place must offer access in all its extension. What is the current convention (and better way) to use internet_access for cases like this? ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] internet_access usage in parks (and other open areas)
I think internet_access could be used in both ways. It can be used vaguely, as an attribute of a restaurant, hotel, pub. Those places offer their service of bringing you internet access. If you don't have a strong enough signal, it just means the service is bad. But attributing internet access to a park seems strange. You can't complain to someone that you have bad signal at your bench. I would rather map it as a point if it's in the open. Janko pet, 17. tra 2015. 00:54 Nelson A. de Oliveira je napisao: > We are having a discussion in talk-br about internet_access in parks > and other open areas. > > From http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:internet_access and from > what I understand, it's a characteristic of the place/object (so it > should not exist without a building, amenity, tourism, shop, leisure > or other kind of place). > If the park offers wifi, then the park should have a internet_access=wifi > > But there are people seeing it different: it should be used at the > spot where the access is offered (where the access point is locate), > since there is no guarantee that people will have wifi signal at every > place of the park. > > For me this second view is incomplete, since we won't be able to find > or tell if a shop, park or anything else offers Internet access. > Also, there isn't any statement in > http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:internet_access that assures > that the place must offer access in all its extension. > > What is the current convention (and better way) to use internet_access > for cases like this? > > ___ > Tagging mailing list > Tagging@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging > ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] internet_access usage in parks (and other open areas)
On Thu, Apr 16, 2015 at 7:08 PM, Janko Mihelić wrote: > But attributing internet access to a park seems strange. You can't complain > to someone that you have bad signal at your bench. I would rather map it as > a point if it's in the open. Nor you can complain if it's mapped as a node inside the park :-) There is also another problem: how do you find a park that offers wifi if it's mapped as a different object? ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] internet_access usage in parks (and other open areas)
As an attribute of a {marina, camp site, bar, hotel} it's clear who is
responsible.
As a standalone node it really needs an operator= and/or network= tag.
Searching for such features is presently poor, but in theory a node can be
found with
an enclosure test. The wifi will shop up in the park, the city, and
country that way.
___
Tagging mailing list
Tagging@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Edit of wiki page amenity=drinking_water for man_made=water_tap
On Tue, Apr 7, 2015 at 8:46 PM, Dave Swarthout wrote: > Here in Thailand there are many vending machines that sell purified, ion > exchanged I believe, water for drinking. Current practice seems to be to > tag them with amenity=drinking_water and leave it at that. What opinions do > you have on that? > > That should really be vending: *amenity=vending_machine* *vending=drinking_water* However one could run with: *amenity=drinking_water* *fee=yes * > I would think something tagged with both amenity=drinking_water and man_made=tap has both a bubbler and a tap. The prior convention there was: *amenity=drinking_water* *bottle=yes (or wetap:bottle=yes)* ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Edit of wiki page amenity=drinking_water for man_made=water_tap
On Thu, 16 Apr 2015 17:33:38 -0700 Bryce Nesbitt wrote: > On Tue, Apr 7, 2015 at 8:46 PM, Dave Swarthout > wrote: > > > Here in Thailand there are many vending machines that sell > > purified, ion exchanged I believe, water for drinking. Current > > practice seems to be to tag them with amenity=drinking_water and > > leave it at that. What opinions do you have on that? > > > > That should really be vending: > > *amenity=vending_machine* > *vending=drinking_water* > > > However one could run with: > > *amenity=drinking_water* > *fee=yes * Or use both tagging schemes *amenity=vending_machine *vending=drinking_water *amenity=drinking_water *fee=yes ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Tagging of pitches within a campsite
That scheme seems to rely on house number model. Sure looks good. But does it, by implication, indicate there is a (eg) a house number 12 on the unnamed service road ? I'm not into mapping house numbers so don't know if thats important or not. David On Thu, 2015-04-16 at 10:51 -0700, Bryce Nesbitt wrote: > I'm opening discussion on how to best tag individual pitch numbers > within a campsite. > There are a variety of schemes in use from "tourism=caravan_site" on each > node to "campsite=pitch,ref=XXX". > > This scheme seems to work fairly well: > http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/37815651#map=18/36.49277/-121.14681 > But differs from the wiki. > > (note good rendering, but missing the dump station, > and the ranger station (also reception, park HQ, and grocery). > > ___ > Tagging mailing list > Tagging@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] internet_access usage in parks (and other open areas)
pet, 17. tra 2015. 01:28 Nelson A. de Oliveira je napisao: There is also another problem: how do you find a park that offers wifi if it's mapped as a different object? Search for all parks that have an enclosed internet_access node, or easier, find all parks that are les than 30m from internet access. If I had time, I would try to make an Overpass query for that. Janko ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Tagging of pitches within a campsite
On Thu, Apr 16, 2015 at 9:50 PM, David Bannon wrote: > > That scheme seems to rely on house number model. Sure looks good. > > But does it, by implication, indicate there is a (eg) a house number 12 > on the unnamed service road ? I'm not into mapping house numbers so > don't know if thats important or not. > If you entered Pinnacles Campground Site 12 into your OSM powered GPS, would you not be happy if it took you all the way to Site 12? In practice that would also require: addr:housenumber=12 addr:street=[unnamed service road] But there's no (easy) way to define an address connected to an unnamed road. Way numbers are not supported for addr:street, afik. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
