Re: [Tagging] Colour coding of wiki description boxes
On 29/04/2015 4:30 AM, Bryce Nesbitt wrote: +1 that there's a problem here of the wiki pretending to be more than it it is. Xxzme's bold edits often exacerbate that. -- When it comes to deprecated and obsolete tags I basically feel that if you can't get enough worldwide consent to re-tag, the tags are not really obsolete or deprecated. The partial deprecation approach is bad for mappers bad for the data bad for data consumers. The wiki bar is already far too low for deprecation, and the colour red goes too far in discouraging use of a tag that may be perfectly valid, wanted and even widely used. Since deprecation is nuanced condition in OSM the wiki should reflect that nuance. Bringing editor support indications into the wiki would help. A feature that's deprecated in Keepright/osmose/JOSM and iD is very different from a feature that three people got together and marked deprecated on the Wiki. Where some tag is 'depreciated' then the alternative tag should be highlighted. The mapper then can make the choice. Colours? Ok with the colour blind thing .. need to state what colours are best so choices can be made from them. Why does the entire box need to be done in the chosen colour?? Why not just do the status text in bold in that colour? This reduces the significance of the status... may be leave the whole box colours for things of more significance ... status=abandoned? ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] lost and found
2015-04-28 1:01 GMT+02:00 johnw jo...@mac.com: so amenity=lost_and_found + lost_and_found=yes seems good to me, It seems like a duplicate information to me. The second key doesn't give any additional information and is therefore not useful. 2015-04-28 10:57 GMT+02:00 p...@trigpoint.me.uk: This type of facility is usually called 'Lost Property' or a lost property office. There is a difference between english american and the british language. I guess you're english ;) -- *Florian Lainez* @overflorian http://twitter.com/overflorian ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] [Talk-GB] Wiki deprecation of an in-use feature
On Sat, Apr 25, 2015 at 3:52 PM, Warin 61sundow...@gmail.com wrote: Back on topic? The 'problem' looks to have come from incorrect wiki definition. So that is where to start, correctly define it, contact those who have been contributing to the wiki and check they agree with the 'new definition' ... once agreement is reached then proceed with status changes and map edits. Yes, exactly. The wiki page in question had a completely bogus definition. I did try to correct the definition, but another user reverted the edit saying that deprecated tags should not have a change in definition. Aghghg. --- The bigger point here is that the Wiki is not the mapping community, and really should not present itself as such. Those who marked this tag deprecated are not the mappers who were (and still are!) using it. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] lost and found
On Tue Apr 28 15:46:18 2015 GMT+0100, Florian LAINEZ wrote: 2015-04-28 1:01 GMT+02:00 johnw jo...@mac.com: so amenity=lost_and_found + lost_and_found=yes seems good to me, It seems like a duplicate information to me. The second key doesn't give any additional information and is therefore not useful. 2015-04-28 10:57 GMT+02:00 p...@trigpoint.me.uk: This type of facility is usually called 'Lost Property' or a lost property office. There is a difference between english american and the british language. I guess you're english ;) There is a difference, and I am British and so is the language of OSM tagging. Phil (trigpoint ) -- Sent from my Jolla ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] lost and found
To clarify the tag name: According to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lost_and_found it should be: amenity=lost_property OR lost_property=yes (British English) Volker On 28 April 2015 at 16:46, Florian LAINEZ winner...@free.fr wrote: 2015-04-28 1:01 GMT+02:00 johnw jo...@mac.com: so amenity=lost_and_found + lost_and_found=yes seems good to me, It seems like a duplicate information to me. The second key doesn't give any additional information and is therefore not useful. 2015-04-28 10:57 GMT+02:00 p...@trigpoint.me.uk: This type of facility is usually called 'Lost Property' or a lost property office. There is a difference between english american and the british language. I guess you're english ;) -- *Florian Lainez* @overflorian http://twitter.com/overflorian ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] lost and found
On Tue, Apr 28, 2015 at 7:46 AM, Florian LAINEZ winner...@free.fr wrote: 2015-04-28 1:01 GMT+02:00 johnw jo...@mac.com: so amenity=lost_and_found + lost_and_found=yes seems good to me, It seems like a duplicate information to me. The second key doesn't give any additional information and is therefore not useful. The second key is when lost and found is an attribute of something else: amenity=reception_desk lost_and_found=yes opening_hours=10:00-20:00 Lost and found is sometimes, but rarely, a standalone feature. Usually it's part of a ticket office, store, office, security station or some other part of the facility in which items can be lost. Rendering software is more likely to (eventually) render amenity=lost_and_found, but that's really tagging for the rendering, and tagging for osm-carto's particular characteristics. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] lost and found
This type of facility is usually called 'Lost Property' or a lost property office. amenity=lost_property would work here, or lost_property=yes could be added where it is a secondary function of something else such as an information desk. Phil (trigpoint ) On Tue Apr 28 00:01:07 2015 GMT+0100, johnw wrote: Usually a mappable lost found is for a large theme park (or large public complex - even large train stations) - so it would be a mappable node at high zoom levels. There is a tiny tiny table at my community center that has had the same pencase and scarf for 8 months. But it is a mappable point if I really wanted to. But most of the time the place would be a mappable node - like at Disneyland or an airport, but occasionally it is part of an office, so lost_and_found=yes would be useful for which stationmaster’s office or service counter at the giant station has the lost and found. so amenity=lost found works well. Tourism is wrong, as it is for non-torust places (most large train stations in Tokyo (which are a block or two long) have a lost and found somewhere. so amenity=lost_and_found + lost_and_found=yes seems good to me, Javbw On Apr 27, 2015, at 10:15 PM, Florian LAINEZ winner...@free.fr wrote: Hi, How would you tag a place where all the lost and found items are collected? Suggestions: lost_and_found=yes amenity=lost_and_found office=lost_and_found I don't like amenity=lost_and_found because it can't apply to already existing amenity POI like amenity=post_office. And the fact is that such an amenity can actually be the place where the lost and found items are collected. It's not really a very popular topic for now ... http://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/search?q=lost_and_found#values http://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/search?q=lost_and_found#values What do you think? -- Florian Lainez @overflorian http://twitter.com/overflorian ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging -- Sent from my Jolla ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Colour coding of wiki description boxes
On 04/27/2015 01:26 PM, Frederik Ramm wrote: Hi, I'm finding myself in a little edit war with user Xxzme on the wiki (is there a club?) over my objection to the use of the colour red for tag description boxes that describe tags with the any of the following statuses: Can we also reject a red/green/yellow color scheme as not friendly to people who are colorblind? ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Colour coding of wiki description boxes
+1 that there's a problem here of the wiki pretending to be more than it it is. Xxzme's bold edits often exacerbate that. -- When it comes to deprecated and obsolete tags I basically feel that if you can't get enough worldwide consent to re-tag, the tags are not really obsolete or deprecated. The partial deprecation approach is bad for mappers bad for the data bad for data consumers. The wiki bar is already far too low for deprecation, and the colour red goes too far in discouraging use of a tag that may be perfectly valid, wanted and even widely used. Since deprecation is nuanced condition in OSM the wiki should reflect that nuance. Bringing editor support indications into the wiki would help. A feature that's deprecated in Keepright/osmose/JOSM and iD is very different from a feature that three people got together and marked deprecated on the Wiki. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] AE and BE orthography in tagging
Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: - railway=subway - not sure why this was chosen, underground seems a reasonable BE candidate while the metro term seems to be Paris-related in If my memory serves me right, I've read an ancient (in OSM context) discussion about it: most subway/underground/metro systems contain sections that are not underground, so with two possible terms, the one which doesn't give the impression that the whole track system must be underground was chosen. -- alv ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Tag:natural=tree and taxon names
On Mon, Apr 27, 2015 at 3:44 PM, Andy Mabbett a...@pigsonthewing.org.uk wrote: What can species= and genus= do, that taxon= cannot? If all you know is the species, you can feel comfortable tagging the species. Tagging the taxon may not feel right, or may be too intimidating. Same for common names. You might know it's an Oak, but not realize it's a Live Oak, and furthermore not realize that live oak may be one of several species. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
[Tagging] Damage Assessment Tags - Would like feedback on a schema
Greetings everyone, I am looking to help further develop a set of tags to reflect disaster event damage to mapped objects in OSM. OSM has already used damage tags in the past several times for example after Typhoon Haiyan: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Damaged_buildings_crisis_mapping And after the 2011 Sendai earthquake and tsunami http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/2011_Sendai_earthquake_and_tsunami And in Haiti http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Humanitarian_OSM_Tags/Humanitarian_Data_Background#OpenStreetMap:_Tags_in_Current_Usage I have read feedback about issues related to those tags and would like to generate a set of tags that address that feedback. The main feedback I saw was that the damage tags need to be separated from the main object tags themselves (building=*, natural=*, highway=*, etc) and they need to be easily removed after the damage is resolved or the event is over. Toward that end this is what myself and some other more experiences mappers have come up with. We think it addresses those issues and improves damage tagging in general. We would like community feedback to help improve them before creating a wiki proposal page. Our over arching goal of course is to create the most useful set of tags possible. We are also going to reach out to some humanitarian organizations to get feedback about their damage assessment data models and hopefully use that to make improvements as well. I know there are other people interested in this topic as well so if anyone has complete alternative suggested schemas that would be great too. Any and all feedback and discussion is most welcome. Tagging Schema Criteria: 1. Separate feature/object from damage tag itself 2. Identify event the damage tag is related to for analysis and easily removing them later 3. Allow for assessed and revised indication 4. Specify type/source of assessment 5. Easy to enter, remember, understand for mappers 6. Works well with overpass/overpass-turbo queries 7. Relatively easy for routing software to work with 8. Most similar to existing OSM tagging schemas 9. Allow for initial or revised damage assessment based on ground survey For any area or node (buildings, amenities, landuse, natural, etc) damage=[none | partial | major | destroyed] damage:event=event_name[;event_name2;etc] damage:assessment=[none | initial | revision] damage:organization=organization_adding_damage_tags_name source:damage=[satellite | aerial | survey] For ways (highways) These are the same as above, but we add a damage specific key damage:smoothness and use the values from the existing smoothness key values (http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:smoothness). Routing software would look for the damage:smoothness=* key and if present use that value over the explicit or implicit smoothness=* value. When the damage tags are removed, routing would return to pre-event status automatically. damage=[none | partial | major | destroyed] damage:smoothness=[excellent | good | bad | horrible | impassable] damage:event=event_name[;event_name2;etc] damage:assessment=[none | initial | revision] damage:organization=organization_adding_damage_tags_name source:damage=[satellite | aerial | survey] Cheers, Blake ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Tag:natural=tree and taxon names
I had a look at the page for natural=tree and there is no example using taxon. For me that resulted in the use of species when known. Until yesterday I didn't even know how taxon could be used and it is confusing that it can look the same as genus or species. OTOH I do understand that using 3 keys like this makes pulling data out of the database a lot harder than it ought to be. Jo 2015-04-28 12:00 GMT+02:00 Martin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com: Am 28.04.2015 um 11:29 schrieb Andy Mabbett a...@pigsonthewing.org.uk: Again; why do we need species=* and genus=* on that basis? you're right that we don't need them, the less specific key taxon covers all kind of taxons, still people seem to prefer species and genus (together 600K uses) before taxon (139K used). cheers Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Tag:natural=tree and taxon names
On 28 April 2015 at 07:16, Bryce Nesbitt bry...@obviously.com wrote: On Mon, Apr 27, 2015 at 3:44 PM, Andy Mabbett a...@pigsonthewing.org.uk wrote: What can species= and genus= do, that taxon= cannot? If all you know is the species, you can feel comfortable tagging the species. That doesn't answer my question. If al an editor knows is the species, then taxon=[species] is fine. Tagging the taxon may not feel right, or may be too intimidating. That's very vague, and I suspect not supportable with evidence. Does anyone have any? Same for common names. You might know it's an Oak, but not realize it's a Live Oak, Then taxon=Quercus (or even taxon=Oak) will suffice. and furthermore not realize that live oak may be one of several species. Again; why do we need species=* and genus=* on that basis? -- Andy Mabbett @pigsonthewing http://pigsonthewing.org.uk ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
[Tagging] proposal - camp_site= Voting is now open.
OK folks, everyone has had every chance to tell us what is wrong with this proposal, its now open for voting. We have talked and talked ! Lets vote now please ! https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Camp_Site David ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Tag:natural=tree and taxon names
Am 28.04.2015 um 11:29 schrieb Andy Mabbett a...@pigsonthewing.org.uk: Again; why do we need species=* and genus=* on that basis? you're right that we don't need them, the less specific key taxon covers all kind of taxons, still people seem to prefer species and genus (together 600K uses) before taxon (139K used). cheers Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
