Re: [Tagging] Do-it-yourself versus hardware stores

[Philip Barnes]

On Tue, 2016-02-09 at 10:19 +0100, Frederik Ramm wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> On 02/09/2016 12:39 AM, Matthijs Melissen wrote:
> > Would it make sense to keep distinguishing between
> > shop=doityourself
> > and shop=hardware? If so, how could we make the difference more
> > precise?
> 
> "A shop=doityourself is to a shop=hardware what a shop=supermarket is
> to
> a shop=convenience".

Absolutely, the difference is important and to homogenise the tagging
would wrong.

The difference is about service, a shop=doityourself is about pile it
high and sell it cheap. The staff have little or no knowledge beyond
how things are labelled and certainly can't suggest a thingy that fits
a watchamecallit.

In a hardware shop the staff will be able to give advice, will happily
sell you one of something and not insist you buy a complete pack.

Phil (trigpoint)

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Re: [Tagging] Do-it-yourself versus hardware stores

[Paul Johnson]

On Tue, Feb 9, 2016 at 2:36 AM, Martin Koppenhoefer 
wrote:

>
> Am 09.02.2016 um 08:51 schrieb Paul Johnson :
>
> So this is rather similar distinction as
>> shop=convenience
>> vs.
>> shop=supermarket
>> .. and perhaps even on top of that
>> vs.
>> shop=department_store
>> as many department stores also have a food department (albeit certainly
>> not all).
>>
>>
> And the distinction between variety store and department store.
>
>
>
> department stores are different beasts then supermarkets, they do have
> departments (i.e. typically with staff in each department, counters and
> likely also a cash register). They also tend to sell more expensive/higher
> quality only, while supermarkets will have all kinds of quality and no
> salespersons (besides some fresh food area like meat, bread, fish). Variety
> stores are the other end (of the quality/price range), i.e. a lot of "cheap
> crap".
>

Well, hence my tendency to not classify Walmart Stores (the original
Walmart concept) and Walmart SuperCenters (the larger, almost but not quite
Fred Meyer sized Fred Meyer knockoffs) department store, but rather as a
variety store.


> Department stores will be found in bigger cities and not/rarely in small
> towns.
> The selection of goods also varies, supermarkets do have a focus on food,
> variety stores on non-food household, department stores will typically sell
> clothes, kitchen stuff (dishes, cutlery, pans, machines, ), quality
> stationery, toys, cosmetics, ..., and often also have a food department
> (but focused more on "luxury" than every day stuff).
>

Both might have a grocery section in modern practice (Fred Meyer, going all
the way back to when they dropped the full-service general-store concept in
favor of "grab it off the rack yourself" back in the 1930s; the Walmart
knockoff of the same; SuperTarget; a few independent one-offs...)
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Re: [Tagging] Do-it-yourself versus hardware stores

[Marc Gemis]

On Tue, Feb 9, 2016 at 10:26 AM, Matthijs Melissen
 wrote:
> Of course the problem with using size to distinguish between hardware
> and doityourself is what to do with intermediary cases. How would you
> classify, for instance, a store like this?
> http://westerbork.hubo.nl/sites/default/files/Westerbork_new.jpg?1373797524

Hard to tell, when you cannot see inside :-)

Hardware is mainly about machines (and nuts and bolts), a DIY has a
lot of other stuff as well. For me it's not about the size, but about
the catalogue.
I don't know any DIY chains (Brico, Gamma, Hubo) in Belgium that is a
hardware store. For me, a hardware store  is more likely to target a
professional audience by selling quality (or more expensive brands of)
machines, although the general public is welcome.

I don't know http://www.ooms-ijzerwaren.com/  (in Dutch), but this one
is a hardware store for me (by looking at the description on the
website)

m.

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Re: [Tagging] Do-it-yourself versus hardware stores

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

sent from a phone

> Am 09.02.2016 um 08:45 schrieb Paul Johnson :
> 
> I believe that would generally be known as a "makerspace", though I'm not 
> sure what the tag would be.



makerspace to me has the connotation of "high tech", industrial machines in 
household scale (e.g. 3D printers, lasercutters, CNC mills, soldering 
electronic parts, etc.), and it sounds like "less for profit" (i.e. more 
hobbyists and not a "true business"). Maybe this word is used differently 
around the world?


cheers,
Martin 
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Re: [Tagging] Galleries versus art shops

[Frederik Ramm]

Hi,

On 02/09/2016 02:52 AM, Richard Welty wrote:
> some galleries sell and others do not. i am thinking that there should be
> an art tag that applies to all types of art galleries, supplemented by
> shop=art for the ones that sell.

What would in your eyes be the difference between a non-selling gallery
and an art museum - or is every art museum then a non-selling gallery?

(Leaving aside the fact that many museums will sell if the price is right!)

Bye
Frederik

-- 
Frederik Ramm  ##  eMail frede...@remote.org  ##  N49°00'09" E008°23'33"

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Re: [Tagging] Do-it-yourself versus hardware stores

[Frederik Ramm]

Hi,

On 02/09/2016 12:39 AM, Matthijs Melissen wrote:
> Would it make sense to keep distinguishing between shop=doityourself
> and shop=hardware? If so, how could we make the difference more
> precise?

"A shop=doityourself is to a shop=hardware what a shop=supermarket is to
a shop=convenience".

Bye
Frederik

-- 
Frederik Ramm  ##  eMail frede...@remote.org  ##  N49°00'09" E008°23'33"

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Re: [Tagging] Do-it-yourself versus hardware stores

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

sent from a phone

Am 09.02.2016 um 08:51 schrieb Paul Johnson :

>> So this is rather similar distinction as
>> shop=convenience
>> vs.
>> shop=supermarket
>> .. and perhaps even on top of that
>> vs.
>> shop=department_store
>> as many department stores also have a food department (albeit certainly not 
>> all).
> 
> And the distinction between variety store and department store. 


department stores are different beasts then supermarkets, they do have 
departments (i.e. typically with staff in each department, counters and likely 
also a cash register). They also tend to sell more expensive/higher quality 
only, while supermarkets will have all kinds of quality and no salespersons 
(besides some fresh food area like meat, bread, fish). Variety stores are the 
other end (of the quality/price range), i.e. a lot of "cheap crap". Department 
stores will be found in bigger cities and not/rarely in small towns. 
The selection of goods also varies, supermarkets do have a focus on food, 
variety stores on non-food household, department stores will typically sell 
clothes, kitchen stuff (dishes, cutlery, pans, machines, ), quality 
stationery, toys, cosmetics, ..., and often also have a food department (but 
focused more on "luxury" than every day stuff).


cheers,
Martin 


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Re: [Tagging] Do-it-yourself versus hardware stores

[Matthijs Melissen]

On 9 February 2016 at 07:31, Marc Gemis  wrote:
> The Hubo shop I know best  (Reet, Belgium) sells  fencing, flooring,
> garden furniture, etc. besides all the tools. So it fits the DIY
> better than the hardware definition.

That's correct and something I'm aware of. Hubo in Belgium is very
different from Hubo in the Netherland. The chains are not even owned
by the same entity.

Dutch Hubo: 
http://www.hubo.nl/sites/default/files/Ondernemers/HU-Eersel-pand.jpg
/ http://www.hubo.nl/sites/default/files/Ondernemers/Wilbert5.jpeg
Belgian Hubo: 
https://media.hubo.be/img/4492.jpg?base=stores=hea=h75=8812982927390.jpg

Of course the problem with using size to distinguish between hardware
and doityourself is what to do with intermediary cases. How would you
classify, for instance, a store like this?
http://westerbork.hubo.nl/sites/default/files/Westerbork_new.jpg?1373797524


-- Matthijs

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[Tagging] Path with permit required for bikes?

[Richard Fairhurst]

Hi all,

An important part of the Pacific Coast Bicycle Route now requires 
cyclists to get a permit:



http://www.examiner.com/article/cycling-through-camp-pendleton-is-changing
https://mccscp.wufoo.com/forms/camp-pendleton-bike-route-access-form/

How should this be tagged?

It's not quite 'bicycle=permissive' - that's generally used to imply 
that bikes are allowed in by goodwill of the landowner but don't have to 
book, whereas in this case a permit has to be expressly applied for.


Some possibilities:

reservation:bicycle=required
bicycle=permit
bicycle=license
	   [little used, but see 
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:access%3Dlicense]


(Incidentally, =license should of course be =licence, because the lingua 
franca of OSM is British English. ;) )


cheers
Richard

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Re: [Tagging] Path with permit required for bikes?

[Volker Schmidt]

I received this information from the ACA [1]
"
CAMP PENDLETON ACCESS
The Routes & Mapping Department has been alerted to a change coming to the
Pacific Coast Route in Southern California. Beginning March 1, 2016, Camp
Pendleton will require cyclists to be pre-registered to ride across the
base. "Our goal is to maintain a great relationship with area riders but
also balance that with security and protection for our Marines, Sailors,
civilian employees, and families. Thank you for your patience and
understanding," wrote Carl B. Redding Jr., Director of Public Affairs,
Marine Corps Installations West, in an email. A valid U.S. or State
Identification Card is needed to register; non-U.S. citizens require a
sponsor. More information can be found on the base website:
http://www.pendleton.marines.mil/About/BaseInformation/BaseAccess.aspx
In the near term, for cyclists who do not register in advance or who are
not eligible to receive access to the base, Caltrans has stated it is legal
to ride on the shoulder of I-5 between Las Pulgas Road and Oceanside (Exits
62 to 54). More information on riding this stretch can be found on the
Pacific Coast Section 5 addenda:
http://ow.ly/XNXuI;

[1] https://www.adventurecycling.org/

On 9 February 2016 at 12:25, Richard Fairhurst  wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> An important part of the Pacific Coast Bicycle Route now requires cyclists
> to get a permit:
>
>
> http://www.examiner.com/article/cycling-through-camp-pendleton-is-changing
>
> https://mccscp.wufoo.com/forms/camp-pendleton-bike-route-access-form/
>
> How should this be tagged?
>
> It's not quite 'bicycle=permissive' - that's generally used to imply that
> bikes are allowed in by goodwill of the landowner but don't have to book,
> whereas in this case a permit has to be expressly applied for.
>
> Some possibilities:
>
> reservation:bicycle=required
> bicycle=permit
> bicycle=license
>[little used, but see
> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:access%3Dlicense]
>
> (Incidentally, =license should of course be =licence, because the lingua
> franca of OSM is British English. ;) )
>
> cheers
> Richard
>
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Re: [Tagging] natural=wood status=approved?

[Tobias Knerr]

Am 07.02.2016 19:03, schrieb Martin Koppenhoefer:
> I'm not very familiar with how the proposed templates work (which ones are 
> actually in use) but it doesn't seem as if defacto was a valid status now: 
> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Template:Proposal_Status

The status "defacto" does not exist for proposals (as it implies the
absence of a proposal). It does, however, exist for keys and tags:
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Template:ValueDescription

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Re: [Tagging] Path with permit required for bikes?

[jonathan]

There a charity woodland near Henley in Arden that opens up its paths under a 
permissive access, but at each entry point you are told you have to apply for 
access to the site office first.  Probably just to give you a health and safety 
disclaimer.


Wasn't sure how to map it, I've done it as Permissive currently.


Jonathan 



bigfatfrog67





From: Richard Fairhurst
Sent: ‎Tuesday‎, ‎9‎ ‎February‎ ‎2016 ‎11‎:‎25
To: Tag discussion, strategy and related tools





Hi all,

An important part of the Pacific Coast Bicycle Route now requires 
cyclists to get a permit:

 http://www.examiner.com/article/cycling-through-camp-pendleton-is-changing
 https://mccscp.wufoo.com/forms/camp-pendleton-bike-route-access-form/

How should this be tagged?

It's not quite 'bicycle=permissive' - that's generally used to imply 
that bikes are allowed in by goodwill of the landowner but don't have to 
book, whereas in this case a permit has to be expressly applied for.

Some possibilities:

 reservation:bicycle=required
 bicycle=permit
 bicycle=license
[little used, but see 
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:access%3Dlicense]

(Incidentally, =license should of course be =licence, because the lingua 
franca of OSM is British English. ;) )

cheers
Richard

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Re: [Tagging] Art galleries/museums

[John Eldredge]

In the US, gallery can refer to a museum, but it more commonly refers to a 
retail store selling art.


--
John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com
"Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot 
drive out hate; only love can do that." -- Martin Luther King, Jr.




On January 25, 2016 5:10:55 PM Frederik Ramm  wrote:


Hi,

   the German word "Galerie" is often used for art showrooms where you
can actually buy the stuff on display. (I know a couple that are not
larger than a typical hairdresser's.) Hence I wouldn't be surprised if
many of the 415 tourism=gallery features in Germany were such
establishments. They're certainly not museums.


I had a look at some
famous galleries: the MoMA in New York, the Uffizi in Florence, the
National Gallery of Art in Washington DC, the Van Gogh Museum in
Amsterdam, the Musée d'Orsay in Paris, and the Guggenheim Museum in
Bilbao. It turned out that all of them are tagged as tourism=museum.


I'd probably have hesitated to tag them as "galleries", fearing I'd be
responsible for OSM-reliant tourists requesting to know the sales price
of an item in the MoMA ;)

Bye
Frederik

--
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Re: [Tagging] Art galleries/museums

[John Eldredge]

There is a large art museum in Washington, DC, named the National Gallery.

--
John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com
"Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot 
drive out hate; only love can do that." -- Martin Luther King, Jr.




On January 26, 2016 4:29:17 AM Gerd Petermann 
 wrote:



althio wrote

It brings too much confusion, I take it for a bad case of duck tagging.

I would like :
- discourage tourism=gallery
- subtype of tourism=museum, museum=art just like
museum=railway/history, and further art=painting/...
- also redirect towards shop=art for badly tagged items


+ 1
I've never mapped one, but I was very surprised to see
that tourism=gallery exists.

Gerd




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View this message in context: 
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