Re: [Tagging] How to tag sidewalk slides

[Alessandro Sarretta]

Thanks Nick,

On 17/05/19 01:47, Nick Bolten wrote:
The amount of time someone spent at an incline is important for some 
pedestrians, so I'd use an option that splits the way and sets the 
incline tag.


sidewalk=slide might be related to a tag I've wanted for a while. I 
think I would personally call that a ramp, so maybe a use of a tag 
like ramp=yes would be worth discussing.


There's two big benefits I can name right away:

- It becomes easier to incrementally map l to armchair map these 
features. User A tags ramp=yes on a footways (armchair mappable), User 
B can then use a QA tool and add incline=up/down (armchair mappable), 
user C can add incline=a number (must map on-site).


- It becomes possible to distinguish infrastructure built as a ramp 
(like this slide or a wheelchair ramp) from any other segment of 
footway that just happens to be steep.


Does ramp=yes seem like an appropriate (hypothetical) tag for this 
situation?


I've assumed that ramp should be used only with some steps, but actually 
the definition in the wiki 
(https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:ramp) it's wider: " It's 
*usually* used on staircases".


To me it seems quite a useful option.

But would it be ok to use it on a node instead of a way segment?

Thanks,

Ale



On Thu, May 16, 2019, 4:02 PM Alessandro Sarretta 
mailto:alessandro.sarre...@gmail.com>> 
wrote:


Hi everybody,

I'm mapping various sidewalks and I'd like to tag the portion of
the sidewalk that slides down from a higher level to the ground,
and then maybe goes up again. This happens usually in
correspondance with driveway entrances (how do you tag them?). You
can see an example here

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/images/thumb/b/b9/Sidewalk_and_zebra-crossing.jpg/240px-Sidewalk_and_zebra-crossing.jpg

For wheelchair accessibility it would be important to characterize
it with an incline tag: when the incline value its e.g. >5% the
accessibility can be considered limited, and so on.

One of course could split the sidewalk for a 1 m section and
assing a specific incline value to it; this might lead to a very
fragmented way and sometimes it would be easier to simply add a
node and assign an incline value to it. Even the simple
information that there's a portion of the sidewalk not horizontal
(without a specific value) can be useful.

I've thought about using a node on a footway=sidewalk with
/sidewalk=slide/ + /incline= /or something similar.

I thought also about using the tag kerb, but in this case it isn't
a real intersection with the road, so it doesn't seem to be
appropriate to me.

Do you have any experience on that or suggestions?

Thank you in advance,

Ale


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Re: [Tagging] How to tag sidewalk slides

[Alessandro Sarretta]

Hi Clifford,

On 17/05/19 01:37, Clifford Snow wrote:
I've run into a bunch of similar issues, where they just use asphalt 
to make an incline to the street level. I've been tagging them as 
kerb=lowered. It probably isn't exactly correct, but it does tell a 
wheelchair users that they can reach the street level. (Assuming the 
incline isn't too steep of course.)
from what I've understood form the wiki, /kerb/ is more related to the 
intersection and, /per se/, it doesn't necessarily have an incline, but 
it can have a null (flush), minor (lowered) or high (raised) step. If we 
map an inclined segment as a way (and not as a node), the kerb should be 
assigned to one of its nodes, shouldn't it?
From the image I couldn't tell what the inclined leads to. Is it just 
a wide shoulder or to another sidewalk? That may make a difference in 
how I'd map it.


When the incliined segment leads to a crossing I'm ok with using 
kerb=lowered. I usually have problems when there are two consecutive 
short ramps along a sidewalk.


Ale

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Re: [Tagging] How to tag sidewalk slides

[Shu Higashi]

Hi Ale,

You mean the travelling direction or across derection?
I once used incline:across for across direction:
https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/436823415
It's a bit thrilling experience even walking there ;)
https://www.mapillary.com/app/?pKey=3x_n1JSmCKeH9TUyECgL5A&focus=photo&lat=35.78085285&lng=139.93085187&z=17

I think max incline value of some segment would be enough for such as
wheelchair routing.

Shu

2019-05-17 8:55 GMT+09:00, Andy Townsend :
> ... and there was me thinking that you were trying to tag something like
> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-48259964 :)
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Andy
>
>
>
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Re: [Tagging] How to tag sidewalk slides

[Andy Townsend]

... and there was me thinking that you were trying to tag something like 
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-48259964 :)


Best Regards,

Andy



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Re: [Tagging] How to tag sidewalk slides

[Nick Bolten]

The amount of time someone spent at an incline is important for some
pedestrians, so I'd use an option that splits the way and sets the incline
tag.

sidewalk=slide might be related to a tag I've wanted for a while. I think I
would personally call that a ramp, so maybe a use of a tag like ramp=yes
would be worth discussing.

There's two big benefits I can name right away:

- It becomes easier to incrementally map l to armchair map these features.
User A tags ramp=yes on a footways (armchair mappable), User B can then use
a QA tool and add incline=up/down (armchair mappable), user C can add
incline=a number (must map on-site).

- It becomes possible to distinguish infrastructure built as a ramp (like
this slide or a wheelchair ramp) from any other segment of footway that
just happens to be steep.

Does ramp=yes seem like an appropriate (hypothetical) tag for this
situation?

On Thu, May 16, 2019, 4:02 PM Alessandro Sarretta <
alessandro.sarre...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi everybody,
>
> I'm mapping various sidewalks and I'd like to tag the portion of the
> sidewalk that slides down from a higher level to the ground, and then maybe
> goes up again. This happens usually in correspondance with driveway
> entrances (how do you tag them?). You can see an example here
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/images/thumb/b/b9/Sidewalk_and_zebra-crossing.jpg/240px-Sidewalk_and_zebra-crossing.jpg
>
> For wheelchair accessibility it would be important to characterize it with
> an incline tag: when the incline value its e.g. >5% the accessibility can
> be considered limited, and so on.
>
> One of course could split the sidewalk for a 1 m section and assing a
> specific incline value to it; this might lead to a very fragmented way and
> sometimes it would be easier to simply add a node and assign an incline
> value to it. Even the simple information that there's a portion of the
> sidewalk not horizontal (without a specific value) can be useful.
>
> I've thought about using a node on a footway=sidewalk with
> *sidewalk=slide* + *incline= *or something similar.
>
> I thought also about using the tag kerb, but in this case it isn't a real
> intersection with the road, so it doesn't seem to be appropriate to me.
>
> Do you have any experience on that or suggestions?
>
> Thank you in advance,
>
> Ale
>
>
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Re: [Tagging] How to tag sidewalk slides

[Clifford Snow]

I've run into a bunch of similar issues, where they just use asphalt to
make an incline to the street level. I've been tagging them as
kerb=lowered. It probably isn't exactly correct, but it does tell a
wheelchair users that they can reach the street level. (Assuming the
incline isn't too steep of course.)

>From the image I couldn't tell what the inclined leads to. Is it just a
wide shoulder or to another sidewalk? That may make a difference in how I'd
map it.

Best,
Clifford

On Thu, May 16, 2019 at 4:01 PM Alessandro Sarretta <
alessandro.sarre...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi everybody,
>
> I'm mapping various sidewalks and I'd like to tag the portion of the
> sidewalk that slides down from a higher level to the ground, and then maybe
> goes up again. This happens usually in correspondance with driveway
> entrances (how do you tag them?). You can see an example here
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/images/thumb/b/b9/Sidewalk_and_zebra-crossing.jpg/240px-Sidewalk_and_zebra-crossing.jpg
>
> For wheelchair accessibility it would be important to characterize it with
> an incline tag: when the incline value its e.g. >5% the accessibility can
> be considered limited, and so on.
>
> One of course could split the sidewalk for a 1 m section and assing a
> specific incline value to it; this might lead to a very fragmented way and
> sometimes it would be easier to simply add a node and assign an incline
> value to it. Even the simple information that there's a portion of the
> sidewalk not horizontal (without a specific value) can be useful.
>
> I've thought about using a node on a footway=sidewalk with
> *sidewalk=slide* + *incline= *or something similar.
>
> I thought also about using the tag kerb, but in this case it isn't a real
> intersection with the road, so it doesn't seem to be appropriate to me.
>
> Do you have any experience on that or suggestions?
>
> Thank you in advance,
>
> Ale
>
>
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>


-- 
@osm_washington
www.snowandsnow.us
OpenStreetMap: Maps with a human touch
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[Tagging] How to tag sidewalk slides

[Alessandro Sarretta]

Hi everybody,

I'm mapping various sidewalks and I'd like to tag the portion of the 
sidewalk that slides down from a higher level to the ground, and then 
maybe goes up again. This happens usually in correspondance with 
driveway entrances (how do you tag them?). You can see an example here 
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/images/thumb/b/b9/Sidewalk_and_zebra-crossing.jpg/240px-Sidewalk_and_zebra-crossing.jpg


For wheelchair accessibility it would be important to characterize it 
with an incline tag: when the incline value its e.g. >5% the 
accessibility can be considered limited, and so on.


One of course could split the sidewalk for a 1 m section and assing a 
specific incline value to it; this might lead to a very fragmented way 
and sometimes it would be easier to simply add a node and assign an 
incline value to it. Even the simple information that there's a portion 
of the sidewalk not horizontal (without a specific value) can be useful.


I've thought about using a node on a footway=sidewalk with 
/sidewalk=slide/ + /incline= /or something similar.


I thought also about using the tag kerb, but in this case it isn't a 
real intersection with the road, so it doesn't seem to be appropriate to me.


Do you have any experience on that or suggestions?

Thank you in advance,

Ale


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Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - crossing=marked

[Nick Bolten]

I agree that it's very confuddled. I'm going to start a new thread soon
after I make some updates to the proposal, primarily for clarity and
covering some of the most common questions that have come up here. I'd like
to steal your examples, if you don't mind, for the wiki.

The response you received about specific tagging strategies seem roughly in
line with how I'd map, although I shy away from crossing=traffic_signals
due to the various previously stated reasons, although I personally focus
on mapping ways over nodes. Not that there's anything wrong with adding the
same information to a node, it's just not my focus.

Were this and the other proposal about traffic_signals adopted, your
questions would be a bit easier to answer:

(1) Is the crossing marked? If so, crossing=marked. If not,
crossing=unmarked
(2) Does the crossing have a pedestrian light (that is synchronized with a
traffic-facing stop/go light)? crossing:*signals=yes (I am going to rework
the crossing:signals proposal to distinguish pedestrian from traffic).

The only exception is the path through a parking lot that you noted. I
think that's a case that could potentially use its own new tag of some kind
- a marked path through a shared pedestrian/car space. I wouldn't tag it as
anything other than highway=footway for now.

On Sun, May 12, 2019 at 1:50 PM Kevin Kenny  wrote:

> This discussion is leaving me pretty bewildered.
>
> Sometimes my bewilderment can be alleviated by considering concrete
> examples.
>
> On my walk yesterday, other than the implied crossing at every
> intersection (but see "don't map local law") I noted the following:
>
> 1. Combined foot/cycle crossing - a side path from a combined
> foot/cycleway onto a very lightly trafficked suburban street. Marked
> with signs bearing the silhouette of a bicycle about 50 m in advance
> of the crossing. No markings on the pavement. (This crossing is part
> of my daily commute. The street that it crosses is quite busy, and the
> sign with the bicycle silhouette has no apparent effect on the
> drivers. Pedestrians divide into the quick and the dead.)
>
> 2. Combined foot/cycle crossing - a combined foot/cycleway crossing a
> busy two-lane street at grade. Signage both ~50 m in advance and at
> the crossing. Flashing yellow lights (meaning 'proceed with caution')
> flank the sign at the crossing. The lights can by turned on by a
> pedestrian or cyclist pushing a button. Zebra-stripe pavement
> markings.
>
> 3. Zebra-stripe pavement markings at an intersection controlled by a
> 4-way STOP sign.
>
> 4. Zebra-stripe pavement markings at an intersection controlled by a
> traffic light, with no 'WAIT/WALK' pedestrian signals.
>
> 5. Zebra-stripe pavement markings at an intersection controlled by a
> traffic light, with 'WAIT/WALK' pedestrian signals, and a countdown
> timer giving the seconds remaining to cross.
>
> 6. The same, with the pedestrian or cyclist requesting the WALK signal
> by pressing a button.
>
> 7. Zebra-stripe pavement markings, together with a sign displaying the
> silhouette of school children, in the middle of a block in front of a
> school. This crossing may be supervised during school
> arrival/departure times.
>
> 8. Zebra-stripe pedestrian markings delineating the preferred footpath
> in a parking field, and running generally perpendicular to the parking
> aisles.
>
> And I'm now in confusion about how to tag any of them.
>
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