Re: [Tagging] Proposal: Access Aisle

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

sent from a phone

> Il giorno 25 ott 2019, alle ore 14:36, marc marc  
> ha scritto:
> 
> highway=footway is sometime (counry-specific) restricted to way
> with a traffic sign like the current one in its wiki page
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:highway%3Dfootway
> I never see sutch sign for path in a parking.


I guess this is country specific, I’ve quite often seen horizontal signage for 
this kind of footway. Also in similar situations (multi level parking) 
https://live.staticflickr.com/531/31980788515_74d005b847_b.jpg

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Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - Voting - (phone)

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

sent from a phone

> Il giorno 26 ott 2019, alle ore 22:05, Mateusz Konieczny 
>  ha scritto:
> 
> the vote is running out on 5th Novembre 2019. Please vote for "Yes" and make 
> life easier for both mappers and developer.
> It is kind in a poor taste to do request voting for a specific option.


It there are two options, change something or not, and he is the initiator of 
the proposal, it is implicit anyway that he’s for “yes”/his own proposal.

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Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - Voting - (phone)

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

sent from a phone

> Il giorno 26 ott 2019, alle ore 21:34, Valor Naram via Tagging 
>  ha scritto:
> 
> Things like "Two Tags For The Same Purpose" prevents that. Supporting two 
> tags causes more work and pain to all: for developers, researchers, for 
> mappers, for the OpenStreetMap Community and of course for customers.


Great you are so passionate about this, but with so many people opposing the 
deprecation, even if the vote passes we will have to continue living with both 
tags, probably.

Any tags you like, etc.

Cheers Martin 
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Re: [Tagging] Tagging estuaries: estuary=yes or river=estuary?

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

sent from a phone

> Il giorno 26 ott 2019, alle ore 02:27, Dave Swarthout 
>  ha scritto:
> 
> I realize that some rivers are mapped using just a riverbank area


while this does occur, it is considered at best incomplete and to fix, usually 
we consider the waterway=river more important than the riverbank.

Cheers Martin 



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Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - Voting - (phone)

[Mateusz Konieczny]

26 Oct 2019, 21:33 by tagging@openstreetmap.org:

> Hi,
>
> the vote is running out on 5th Novembre 2019. Please vote for "Yes" and make 
> life easier for both mappers and developer.
>
It is kind in a poor taste to do request voting for a specific option.___
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Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - Voting - (phone)

[Valor Naram via Tagging]

Hi,the vote is running out on 5th Novembre 2019. Please vote for "Yes" and make life easier for both mappers and developer.https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Discussions/tagging/contact:phone_or_phoneMy mission is to clean up the "mess" from the past. My mission is to prepare OSM for Mainstream entry. My mission is to make understanding and using OpenStreetMap easier for data users and potencial new mappers.Things like "Two Tags For The Same Purpose" prevents that. Supporting two tags causes more work and pain to all: for developers, researchers, for mappers, for the OpenStreetMap Community and of course for customers.~ Sören Reinecke alias Valor Naram Original Message Subject: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - Voting - (phone)From: Valor Naram via Tagging To: tagging@openstreetmap.orgCC: Valor Naram Hey,I finally opened the voting "Make `phone` Tag default for taggingtelephone numbers in OSM and deprecating contact:phone`. Please placeyour voice at https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Discussions/tagging/contact:phone_or_phone. The Voting will be closed at 5th Novembre 2019. Please read the Proposal page carefully before waiting because the specification (everything in the `content` section) there will be the specification shown in https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:phoneProposal description:This proposal tends to make Key:phone the officialtag for tagging phone numbers and to deprecate the tag contact:phonewhich is used less. It's bad to have two keys for the exact samepurpose in use.--Cheers~ Sören Reinecke alias Valor Naram,Developer of the Babykarte - https://babykarte.github.ioParticipating in MapDiscover project - https://mapdiscover.org___Tagging mailing listTagging@openstreetmap.orghttps://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging___
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[Tagging] Feature proposal - RFC - Overhead lines management (consecutive to line_attachment)

[François Lacombe]

Hi all,

After the review of line_attachment key this summer and Karlsruhe
hackweekend at Geofabrik headquarters last week, let me introduce the
second stage of tower:type key cleaning project for power lines. Great time
has been spent on discussing and finding relevant situations.
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Lines_management

It's now about the arrangement of power lines around their supports: how
the lines branch, split, transpose or terminate.
As current tagging (without line_management) still collides with any tower
building function, the line_management key may be a solution to strip
unrelated values from tower:type.

I've published a diary entry to give more explanations
https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/InfosReseaux/diary/391058

I'd draw your attention to the conclusion :
"Mapping utility supports like power towers or telecom poles is a worldwide
challenge. For instance in France, professionals including operators and
contractors rolling out overhead telecom cables are currently looking for
approx. 16 millions missing shared power poles that weren’t mapped in
operational GIS. There’s no doubt updating OSM can help."
There's no short term risk of importing massive data, at least.

This proposal is a first try and may cause worries about some local
concerns. RFC is here to solve this prior to vote anything.
We have to focus on simple situations to begin with to adopt the right
semantic. More complex cases will be added step by step.
Feel free to open a topic in Talk page.

All the best

François
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Re: [Tagging] Tagging estuaries: estuary=yes or river=estuary?

[Clifford Snow]

I haven't tagged any estuaries simple because I'm not sure exactly where
they start and end. If I follow USGS, then the entire Puget Sound is an
estuary. Certainly part of the Skagit delta area is a traditional estuary
but exploring it is difficult. The soggy ground doesn't make hiking much
fun. :-)



On Fri, Oct 25, 2019 at 11:01 PM Dave Swarthout 
wrote:

> Hi Clifford,
>
> Can you help me find something in the Skagit Delta that is tagged with the
> estuary tag? When I read your post, I immediately tried to check it out
> because I'm trying to understand how that tag is being used currently. But
> I wasn't able to find anything.
>
> Thanks for your help.
>
> On Sat, Oct 26, 2019 at 9:29 AM Clifford Snow 
> wrote:
>
>> Looking at the US NHD estuary is broadly defined. For example, The Skagit
>> River flows through my county into the Puget Sound in Washington State. I
>> would expect the delta area, where it empties into the sound to be defined
>> as an estuary. And it is. But  apparently so is the whole of Puget Sound.
>> The trouble I see if 1) if we define an estuary different than scientific
>> model or 2) use the science definition of an estuary. If we differ from the
>> science definition, we'll constantly battle users of what is included in
>> our model and what isn't. If we go with the scientific definition then
>> we'll get questions on why we picked that model when it sometimes doesn't
>> make sense.
>>
>> I'd really like to hear from someone that can explain exactly what an
>> estuary encompases and what makes sense to map.
>>
>> Best,
>> Clifford
>>
>> On Fri, Oct 25, 2019 at 5:26 PM Dave Swarthout 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Then there is the additional problem that the terminal end of the way
>>> used to indicate the waterway=river connects with the "coastline" which is
>>> where the estuary portion of the river ends. I'm not clear about which
>>> object you propose adding the estuary=yes tag to? Let me put it another
>>> way. If the particular river is mapped using a way that terminates on the
>>> coastline, where does the estuary tag get placed? I realize that some
>>> rivers are mapped using just a riverbank area, i.e, there is no way to
>>> terminate, but that still leaves my question unanswered.
>>>
>>> On Sat, Oct 26, 2019 at 7:13 AM Graeme Fitzpatrick <
>>> graemefi...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
 & we get back to the same problem previously discussed with river > sea
 ...

 At what point does a river become an estuary & where does that then
 become the sea?

 Having said that, I quite like river=estuary :-), but I think we'll
 have problems defining it?

 Thanks

 Graeme


 On Sat, 26 Oct 2019 at 09:53, Paul Allen  wrote:

> On Sat, 26 Oct 2019 at 00:43, Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> estuary = tidal mount of a large river? As defined by the Oxford
>> Dictionary.
>>
>
> Estuaries are complicated.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estuary
>
> --
> Paul
>
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>>>
>>>
>>> --
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>>> Homer, Alaska
>>> Chiang Mai, Thailand
>>> Travel Blog at http://dswarthout.blogspot.com
>>> ___
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>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> @osm_washington
>> www.snowandsnow.us
>> OpenStreetMap: Maps with a human touch
>>
>
>
> --
> Dave Swarthout
> Homer, Alaska
> Chiang Mai, Thailand
> Travel Blog at http://dswarthout.blogspot.com
>


-- 
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[Tagging] Guided bus only - but not on a bus guideway

[Neil Matthews]

How do you mark a "highway=unclassified" section that is inaccessible to
buses but accessible to guided buses?

Howabout:

> bus=no
> guided_bus=yes
>
Cheers,
Neil


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Re: [Tagging] Tagging estuaries: estuary=yes or river=estuary?

[Dave Swarthout]

I live in Alaska and the tidal range there is huge, 28 feet (8.5 meters)
with the spring high tides. Also, Alaskan rivers are usually so remote that
one has no good way to even estimate how far the high tide extends upriver.

On Sat, Oct 26, 2019 at 6:25 PM Iago Casabiell 
wrote:

> This is a very complicated subject, made even more compliclated because
> the coastline is only mapped in high tide. Intertidal zones are huge.
> There's a proposed tag to map the low tide coast:
> natural=mean_low_water_springs.
> (
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Tag:natural%3Dmean_low_water_springs
> )
>
> I think a key for a generic term for a river mouth is needed, extending
> beyond natural=coastline, wich should reach upriver to where the high tide
> crawls.
> Also there should be a specific tag for each type of river mouth: estuary,
> fjord, ría, delta, etc.
>
> I live in Galicia in NW Spain where the tidal range is above 4m and tiny
> rivers open into huge well defined bays called rías. I've been mapping them
> as bays in these last few months and there is still much work to do
> extending natural=coastline upriver, drawing natural=mean_low_water_springs
> and defining each type of natural=wetland contained in the ría. Check it
> out and you'll see it's complicated, and also see why this new tagging is
> very important.
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Re: [Tagging] Tagging estuaries: estuary=yes or river=estuary?

[Iago Casabiell]

This is a very complicated subject, made even more compliclated because the
coastline is only mapped in high tide. Intertidal zones are huge. There's a
proposed tag to map the low tide coast: natural=mean_low_water_springs.
(
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Tag:natural%3Dmean_low_water_springs
)

I think a key for a generic term for a river mouth is needed, extending
beyond natural=coastline, wich should reach upriver to where the high tide
crawls.
Also there should be a specific tag for each type of river mouth: estuary,
fjord, ría, delta, etc.

I live in Galicia in NW Spain where the tidal range is above 4m and tiny
rivers open into huge well defined bays called rías. I've been mapping them
as bays in these last few months and there is still much work to do
extending natural=coastline upriver, drawing natural=mean_low_water_springs
and defining each type of natural=wetland contained in the ría. Check it
out and you'll see it's complicated, and also see why this new tagging is
very important.
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Re: [Tagging] Tagging Digest, Vol 121, Issue 97

[Michael Patrick]

> Looking at the US NHD estuary is broadly defined

NOAA keeps track of the estuaries. And the states have fairly extensive
data available:
https://www.coastalatlas.net/?option=com_jumi=application=8=20=107

Estuary is a generic term that covers five basic types, which have quite
different in the characteristics that define them, beyond the general
'river going into the see' aspect. A Norwegian fjord and a mudflat can both
be estuaries. Once you identify the type ( and since they are hugely
important to global fisheries and other stakeholders, almost certainly
someone has already identified the type
https://oceanservice.noaa.gov/education/kits/estuaries/estuaries04_geology.html
), how the various feature boundaries are to be handled in OSM isn't too
difficult.

The ocean edge of the estuary if defined by if it is tide-dominated,
wave-dominated, or river-dominated. That determines if you have have a Bay
of Fundy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bay_of_Fundy estuary, Bay of Fundy,
a Mississippi River type of delta, or a Columbia River situation where the
river channel pretty much extends to the sea. That can be generally
indicated in a tide table according to three basic buckets >4 meters, 2-4
meters, and less than 2 meters.

 but I think we'll have problems defining it?

Only if you try to make the same scheme apply to all five ( coastal plain
,
bar-built
,
deltas
,
tectonic

and fjords

).

The 'cartographic' derived concept that there is just some sort of simple
idealized 'coastline' is a fiction, and at the scale of human beings, not a
very useful one. There isn't land and sea, there is land, sea, and a third
'coastal', which is land and sea changing several times a day and
dramatically on a monthly and annual basis.

Michael Patrick
Data Ferret
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Re: [Tagging] Tagging estuaries: estuary=yes or river=estuary?

[Dave Swarthout]

Hi Clifford,

Can you help me find something in the Skagit Delta that is tagged with the
estuary tag? When I read your post, I immediately tried to check it out
because I'm trying to understand how that tag is being used currently. But
I wasn't able to find anything.

Thanks for your help.

On Sat, Oct 26, 2019 at 9:29 AM Clifford Snow 
wrote:

> Looking at the US NHD estuary is broadly defined. For example, The Skagit
> River flows through my county into the Puget Sound in Washington State. I
> would expect the delta area, where it empties into the sound to be defined
> as an estuary. And it is. But  apparently so is the whole of Puget Sound.
> The trouble I see if 1) if we define an estuary different than scientific
> model or 2) use the science definition of an estuary. If we differ from the
> science definition, we'll constantly battle users of what is included in
> our model and what isn't. If we go with the scientific definition then
> we'll get questions on why we picked that model when it sometimes doesn't
> make sense.
>
> I'd really like to hear from someone that can explain exactly what an
> estuary encompases and what makes sense to map.
>
> Best,
> Clifford
>
> On Fri, Oct 25, 2019 at 5:26 PM Dave Swarthout 
> wrote:
>
>> Then there is the additional problem that the terminal end of the way
>> used to indicate the waterway=river connects with the "coastline" which is
>> where the estuary portion of the river ends. I'm not clear about which
>> object you propose adding the estuary=yes tag to? Let me put it another
>> way. If the particular river is mapped using a way that terminates on the
>> coastline, where does the estuary tag get placed? I realize that some
>> rivers are mapped using just a riverbank area, i.e, there is no way to
>> terminate, but that still leaves my question unanswered.
>>
>> On Sat, Oct 26, 2019 at 7:13 AM Graeme Fitzpatrick 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> & we get back to the same problem previously discussed with river > sea
>>> ...
>>>
>>> At what point does a river become an estuary & where does that then
>>> become the sea?
>>>
>>> Having said that, I quite like river=estuary :-), but I think we'll have
>>> problems defining it?
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>>
>>> Graeme
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sat, 26 Oct 2019 at 09:53, Paul Allen  wrote:
>>>
 On Sat, 26 Oct 2019 at 00:43, Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com> wrote:

>
> estuary = tidal mount of a large river? As defined by the Oxford
> Dictionary.
>

 Estuaries are complicated.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estuary

 --
 Paul

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>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Dave Swarthout
>> Homer, Alaska
>> Chiang Mai, Thailand
>> Travel Blog at http://dswarthout.blogspot.com
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>>
>
>
> --
> @osm_washington
> www.snowandsnow.us
> OpenStreetMap: Maps with a human touch
>


-- 
Dave Swarthout
Homer, Alaska
Chiang Mai, Thailand
Travel Blog at http://dswarthout.blogspot.com
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