[Tagging] Private ambulance / patient transport service

[Graeme Fitzpatrick]

Tried asking about this on the Community but no response so I'll bring it
out here.

In the process of clearing Notes & found one referring to this business:
https://moretongroup.com/ It’s a private business that does first aid
training, but also provides ambulances to attend sporting events, does
patient transport between hospitals or hospital > home, & even takes
doctor’s around acting as mobile clinics!

What to tag them as?

Talk:Tag:emergency=ambulance station - OpenStreetMap Wiki

says it is for emergency vehicles only, NOT patient transport?

I wouldn’t call it a medical centre, as by their description, they don’t
have doctor’s there, they only transport them.

Thoughts?
Thanks

Graeme
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Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - yarn shops

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

Am Mo., 2. Jan. 2023 um 18:17 Uhr schrieb Nate Wessel :

> Howdy y'all,
>
> I am proposing to make official a tag that is already in use to some
> degree, *shop=yarn*, for shops that primarily sell yarn and other
> knitting/crochet supplies. Currently the wiki has these falling under
> shop=sewing. As a long-time sewer who has recently taken up knitting, I can
> say with confidence that these are very different things; though sometimes
> larger stores will sell both.
>
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/yarn_shops
>
> Please discuss this proposal on its Wiki Talk page.
>


is it different from shop=haberdashery?
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag%3Ashop%3Dhaberdashery
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Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - yarn shops

[Yves via Tagging]

I'm pretty sure this discussion already happened here years ago, did not found 
it, though.
Yves 

Le 2 janvier 2023 22:29:58 GMT+01:00, stevea  a 
écrit :
>Yes, sewing and knitting aren't all that related.  In California, we have what 
>are often known as "Vac-and-Sew" shops which sell (not necessarily all of) 
>vacuum cleaners and their supplies (hoses, attachments, nozzles, refill 
>bags...), sewing supplies and maybe sewing machines, sometimes fabric, 
>sometimes yarn and knitting supplies.  Some of them offer classes in these 
>endeavors, as well, in which case, they are more than a shop=*, they are a 
>sort of school=*.  (Or "artist-oriented classroom," like a pottery studio 
>which teaches how to use pottery wheels and might offer clay, glazes, other 
>related supplies and even kiln-space "rental").
>
>My point is that these are all different.  The long-standing OSM tenet of 
>"tag, tag well" (or "tag your best") continues to apply.  While I have all due 
>respect for wiki-authors who do great work of categorizing these things, at 
>best these can only be considered as guidelines, rather than hard-and-fast 
>tagging "requirements."  Yes, in OSM, (as "Street" is our middle name), in 
>some cases, as with motorways, a highway=motorway is a highway=motorway pretty 
>much the world over.  (Because we say so, we define what we mean by that).  
>With shops and art-related endeavors, there is much, much more variability, 
>and I doubt we'll ever reach consensus what "best" or "perfect" strategies 
>are.  So, the best we can do is continue to offer "tag your best" and "tag 
>well" as ongoing strategies.  Sure, discuss further if more can be "wrung out" 
>of such discussions, but realize that perfection may never be achieved.
>
>As long as "tag your best" and "one feature, one tag" continue, I think we're 
>in good shape.
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Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - High seas

[Graeme Fitzpatrick]

Would this get around the problem of sea / oceans not being named e.g.:
https://www.openstreetmap.org/query?lat=-28.0675=153.4939#map=14/-28.0666/153.4835
, is part of the Coral Sea section of the Pacific Ocean, but comes up as
nothing found.

Thanks

Graeme


On Mon, 2 Jan 2023 at 12:58, Brian M. Sperlongano 
wrote:

> A proposal[1] to recommend the tagging of oceanic seas as nodes rather
> than areas is now open for comments.
>
> This proposal follows a community forum discussion[2] regarding the
> modeling of the Gulf of Mexico as a node rather than as a crude polygon.
> This change was made in [3]. This proposal would codify the practice of
> tagging seas as a node as a general practice.
>
> If approved, this proposal would create a recommendation that mappers not
> create complex "beast" mega polygons on top of the ocean (outside the
> coastline), such as the 5,400+ member Gulf of Saint Lawrence [4], as this
> practice is unnecessary for labeling.
>
> [1] https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/High_seas
> [2]
> https://community.openstreetmap.org/t/gulf-of-mexico-object-rendering-of-large-seas
> [3] https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/130767988
> [4] https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/9428957
>
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Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - yarn shops

[stevea]

Yes, sewing and knitting aren't all that related.  In California, we have what 
are often known as "Vac-and-Sew" shops which sell (not necessarily all of) 
vacuum cleaners and their supplies (hoses, attachments, nozzles, refill 
bags...), sewing supplies and maybe sewing machines, sometimes fabric, 
sometimes yarn and knitting supplies.  Some of them offer classes in these 
endeavors, as well, in which case, they are more than a shop=*, they are a sort 
of school=*.  (Or "artist-oriented classroom," like a pottery studio which 
teaches how to use pottery wheels and might offer clay, glazes, other related 
supplies and even kiln-space "rental").

My point is that these are all different.  The long-standing OSM tenet of "tag, 
tag well" (or "tag your best") continues to apply.  While I have all due 
respect for wiki-authors who do great work of categorizing these things, at 
best these can only be considered as guidelines, rather than hard-and-fast 
tagging "requirements."  Yes, in OSM, (as "Street" is our middle name), in some 
cases, as with motorways, a highway=motorway is a highway=motorway pretty much 
the world over.  (Because we say so, we define what we mean by that).  With 
shops and art-related endeavors, there is much, much more variability, and I 
doubt we'll ever reach consensus what "best" or "perfect" strategies are.  So, 
the best we can do is continue to offer "tag your best" and "tag well" as 
ongoing strategies.  Sure, discuss further if more can be "wrung out" of such 
discussions, but realize that perfection may never be achieved.

As long as "tag your best" and "one feature, one tag" continue, I think we're 
in good shape.
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Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - yarn shops

[Nate Wessel]

I was at a store like that 
 just recently.


In that case I would probably tend to separate with a semicolon 
`shop=yarn;sewing` or just pick the dominant type. There can be a bit of 
a blurry boundary there for sure, same as for `shop=sewing` and 
`shop=fabric`. In that case I usually try to decide whether it's mostly 
fabric or other stuff like sewing machines and just pick one.


The problem with `sewing=yarn` IMO is that sewing and knitting aren't 
really all that closely related. You can be an expert at one without 
knowing the first thing about the other. None of the equipment or 
materials are the same.


I think there's a bigger discussion to be had about how to tag "craft 
stores" and "art supply stores", and the things they sell, and maybe 
everything here is a subclass of whatever that category is most properly 
called. But I fear that may be a can of worms that will have us 
attempting to define "art".


Best,

Nate Wessel
Cartographer, Planner, Transport Nerd
NateWessel.com 

On 2023-01-02 15:02, Mateusz Konieczny via Tagging wrote:

What about shops that sell about equal amount of them and
as nonspecialist[1] I have no idea which is dominating?

Would it be reasonable to use shop=sewing sewing=yarn type of schema?

[1] I tried knitting just enough to confirm that it is not a hobby for me,
my sewing supplies do not expand beyond buttons/thread.

Jan 2, 2023, 18:14 by n...@natewessel.com:

Howdy y'all,

I am proposing to make official a tag that is already in use to
some degree, *shop=yarn*, for shops that primarily sell yarn and
other knitting/crochet supplies. Currently the wiki has these
falling under shop=sewing. As a long-time sewer who has recently
taken up knitting, I can say with confidence that these are very
different things; though sometimes larger stores will sell both.

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/yarn_shops

Please discuss this proposal on its Wiki Talk page.

Thanks,

Nate Wessel
Cartographer, Planner, Transport Nerd
NateWessel.com 



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Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - High seas

[Mateusz Konieczny via Tagging]

(1)
In general I agree but I would de-emphasize current issues in specific data 
consumers
("Areas tagged place=sea without natural=water do not render in major renderers
such as OpenMapTiles or the Standard Tile Layer.") which may be trigger for 
this 
proposal but is not a good reason for changing data design in OSM.

("Data consumers do not and cannot do X and X is important" would be a good 
reason,
"Data consumers do not do X and refused to do X for reasonable reasons" also 
would be
while "Data consumers are not doing X" is not a good reason and results in 
things
like manual data processing of bus stops in so called PTv2 which could be 
easily automated)

"The exact water boundary of an oceanic sea is inexact and not verifiable" was 
put at the
end while it is among the most serious issues (unless you intended to start 
from minor ones
and end with the most substantial?)

(2)
"Below is a listing of all beast megapolygons" can you add reference with 
explanation
how you get them? Even if it is SQL query in global osm2pgsql database which is 
not easily accessible for all then it can also be useful for some or future you 
updating
this page. And maybe someone will learn something new how to use OSM data :)

(3)
"and thus a wikidata QID should be tagged" - maybe
"and thus a wikidata QID is useful to be tagged"?
I would not imply that someone not adding wikidata is doing something 
incorrectly.

(4)
I think that for example
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/File:Mediterranean_Americana.jpg
is missing {{ODbL OpenStreetMap}} on its file page
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Template:ODbL_OpenStreetMap
(disclaimer: IANAL, info based on my best current personal knowledge)

Maybe making Americana equivalent of
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Template:OSM_Carto_screenshot
would be nice and useful?

Also, I would recommend uploading such images to Wikimedia Commons
instead at https://commons.wikimedia.org/ .
That makes them usable for wider community and uploading images
there has much lower number of traps caused by unmaintained software
(Wikimedia Commons is a bit creaky and underfunded by WMF that prefers to
waste funds, but their image upload process is actually maintained)

Jan 2, 2023, 03:55 by zelonew...@gmail.com:

> A proposal[1] to recommend the tagging of oceanic seas as nodes rather than 
> areas is now open for comments.
>
> This proposal follows a community forum discussion[2] regarding the modeling 
> of the Gulf of Mexico as a node rather than as a crude polygon. This change 
> was made in [3]. This proposal would codify the practice of tagging seas as a 
> node as a general practice.
>
> If approved, this proposal would create a recommendation that mappers not 
> create complex "beast" mega polygons on top of the ocean (outside the 
> coastline), such as the 5,400+ member Gulf of Saint Lawrence [4], as this 
> practice is unnecessary for labeling.
>
> [1] > https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/High_seas
> [2] > 
> https://community.openstreetmap.org/t/gulf-of-mexico-object-rendering-of-large-seas
> [3] > https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/130767988
> [4] > https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/9428957
>
>

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Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - yarn shops

[Mateusz Konieczny via Tagging]

What about shops that sell about equal amount of them and
as nonspecialist[1] I have no idea which is dominating?

Would it be reasonable to use shop=sewing sewing=yarn type of schema?

[1] I tried knitting just enough to confirm that it is not a hobby for me,
my sewing supplies do not expand beyond buttons/thread.

Jan 2, 2023, 18:14 by n...@natewessel.com:

>
> Howdy y'all, 
>
>
> I am proposing to make official a tag that is already in use to  some 
> degree, > shop=yarn> , for shops that primarily sell yarn  and other 
> knitting/crochet supplies. Currently the wiki has these  falling under 
> shop=sewing. As a long-time sewer who has recently  taken up knitting, I 
> can say with confidence that these are very  different things; though 
> sometimes larger stores will sell both. 
>
>
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/yarn_shops
>
>
> Please discuss this proposal on its Wiki Talk page.
>
>
> Thanks,
>
>
>
> Nate Wessel
>  >  Cartographer, Planner, Transport Nerd
>  >  NateWessel.com 
>
>

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[Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - yarn shops

[Nate Wessel]

Howdy y'all,

I am proposing to make official a tag that is already in use to some 
degree, *shop=yarn*, for shops that primarily sell yarn and other 
knitting/crochet supplies. Currently the wiki has these falling under 
shop=sewing. As a long-time sewer who has recently taken up knitting, I 
can say with confidence that these are very different things; though 
sometimes larger stores will sell both.


https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/yarn_shops

Please discuss this proposal on its Wiki Talk page.

Thanks,

Nate Wessel
Cartographer, Planner, Transport Nerd
NateWessel.com 
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