[Tagging] Areas of bare soil (clay, silt, loam) such as badlands?
Reference: Badlands , Encyclopedia of Geomorphology ,http://bit.ly/2PagW8f > but this is rather specific and may not be well-known outside of North > America: 'Badlands' exist all over the world. They might have local nomenclature, but they are specific type of landform recognized by the international scientific community. > But most of those could be scree or shingle, which would be more specific ... Would it be best to describe the type of soil, like natural=clay, =silt, =earth, =pebbles, =gravel? ... Should mappers use surface=* without another top-level tag?... Should natural=bare_earth be used in general for clay and other bare soils? Badlands are continuously erosional features, so you will find all of those ( and more ) in a badlands zone, often changing over a span of a couple of meters. > Or is natural=badlands best to describe the specific feature of an arid area where the bare soil is exposed due to erosion? Yes. They are defined geologically by the process, continual erosion, and most prominently by the shape of the land: basically everything is a gully or ridge, with fairly steep slopes between them. there might be transient flat areas where sediments collect temporarily, but those are then cut again by erosion. And a few flat areas where harder bedrock is exposed. At the margins above and below the badland watershed / erosional zone are usually more continuous land forms and slopes. An arid climate is not necessarily a characteristic. They are are found in all climate zones, the amount and timing of precipitation affects the occurrence, size, and speed of growth. And they may not even be 'natural': "... Badlands are common in areas with at least seasonal drought, in semi-arid and arid areas, Mediterranean and dry-season tropical areas. However, they also occur in humid regions, for example on eroding coastal and river cliffs. Badlands may result from natural processes, but their extent may be accentuated by human activity. Some badlands may be the result of human-induced soil erosion." > ... wouldn't it be useful to add, in addition to OSM-specific tags like > natural=bare_rock, natural=shingle, natural=scree, ... a tag to reference standard land cover classification? +1 Wikipedia is not an authoritative source, and varies between excellent and poor, and a lay person would find it hard to tell the difference. > The CLC is based on 1:100.000 scale satellite imagery, so it can't be as specific as what OpenStreetMap users can tag with local knowledge and aerial imagery. The final data product is aggregated, but the original imagery is much, much better than that - the 'mapping' ( cartographic ) scale is different than the data model. . The classification system itself is probably still valid a finer resolutions - past the upper level it drills down into more specific categories like "2.4.3 Land principally occupied by agriculture, with significant areas of natural vegetation" . Corine's classification system is very coarse, like USGS NLCD it is meant for continental scale changes. There are more specific standard classification systems for finer levels of landscape details, like FAO http://www.fao.org/3/x0596e/x0596e01f.htm#p971_94150 ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Areas of bare soil (clay, silt, loam) such as badlands?
On Mon, 21 Oct 2019 at 14:26, Joseph Eisenberg wrote: > That sounds right. So natural=badlands could be used on a node, or on > an area covering the heavily-eroded, bare soil area of the landform? > It would really have to be done as an area, wouldn't it? Thanks Graeme ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Areas of bare soil (clay, silt, loam) such as badlands?
On Mon, Oct 21, 2019 at 01:25:27PM +0900, Joseph Eisenberg wrote: > That sounds right. So natural=badlands could be used on a node, or on > an area covering the heavily-eroded, bare soil area of the landform? There is also natural=earth_bank and natural=gully Richard ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Areas of bare soil (clay, silt, loam) such as badlands?
That sounds right. So natural=badlands could be used on a node, or on an area covering the heavily-eroded, bare soil area of the landform? On 10/21/19, Mark Wagner wrote: > On Sun, 20 Oct 2019 09:19:10 +0900 > Joseph Eisenberg wrote: > >> How should areas of bare soil, such as badlands, be tagged? >> >> Currently there are documented tags for dry areas of bedrock, stones >> and sand: >> >> natural=bare_rock, natural=shingle, natural=scree, and natural=sand >> >> For tidal areas, beaches and wetlands there's also natural=beach, >> natural=shoal and wetland=mud >> >> However, there's no documented, common tag for dry areas of exposed >> clay, silt or mixed soil. >> >> natural=badlands has been used 5 times, but this is rather specific >> and may not be well-known outside of North America: >> https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/tags/natural=badlands > > "Badlands" is a specific landform. It's not sufficient for the area to > be clear of vegetation; it needs to be heavily eroded, making it "a bad > place to travel". > > -- > Mark > > ___ > Tagging mailing list > Tagging@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging > ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Areas of bare soil (clay, silt, loam) such as badlands?
Perhaps the term “badlands” is only used in a North America. Wikipedia has a description: "Badlands are a type of dry terrain where softer sedimentary rocks and clay-rich soils have been extensively eroded by wind and water. ... They are characterized by steep slopes, minimal vegetation" and thin soil - but not exposed bedrock, usually. Photo examples: 1) Chinle Badlands, Utah: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Chinle_Badlands.jpg 2) Badlands near Coober Pedy in central Australia: https://www.alamy.com/the-badlands-area-near-coober-pedy-in-central-australia-image67285952.html 3) Drum Badlands, Alberta: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Drumbadlands.jpg 4) Las Médulas, Spain: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Panorámica_de_Las_Médulas.jpg 5) Valle de la Luna, Argentina: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:P1010357_1.JPG 6) Badlands National Park, South Dakota: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Badlands00503.JPG - Joseph On Sun, Oct 20, 2019 at 11:14 AM Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com> wrote: > > On 20/10/19 11:19, Joseph Eisenberg wrote: > > How should areas of bare soil, such as badlands, be tagged? > > > > Currently there are documented tags for dry areas of bedrock, stones and > > sand: > > > > natural=bare_rock, natural=shingle, natural=scree, and natural=sand > > > > For tidal areas, beaches and wetlands there's also natural=beach, > > natural=shoal and wetland=mud > > > > However, there's no documented, common tag for dry areas of exposed > > clay, silt or mixed soil. > > > > natural=badlands has been used 5 times, but this is rather specific > > and may not be well-known outside of North America: > > https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/tags/natural=badlands > > > > natural=desert is common, but includes all kinds of vegetated and > > unvegetated arid areas; many of these can be tagged with natural= > > grassland, heath, scrub, sand, scree etc. > > Desert is a climate, not a land cover nor a land form. Some deserts include > 'lakes'. > > The key natural has climate, land form and land cover all in the one tagging > scheme, I don't think is is a good scheme and would be better separated into > the individual things it is trying to tag. > > > > > natural=clay has been used twice: > > https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/tags/natural=clay > > > > natural=earth has been used 20 times: > > https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/tags/natural=earth > > > > natural=bare_earth has 23 uses: > > https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/tags/natural=bare_earth > > > > There's also natural=pebbles with 67 uses > > (https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/tags/natural=pebbles) > > and natural=gravel 90 times - > > https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/tags/natural=gravel > > > > But most of those could be scree or shingle, which would be more specific. > > > > Would it be best to describe the type of soil, like natural=clay, > > =silt, =earth, =pebbles, =gravel? > > Better to tag specific things rather than a group. > > > > > Should mappers use surface=* without another top-level tag? > > No. > > > > > Should natural=bare_earth be used in general for clay and other bare soils? > > > > Or is natural=badlands best to describe the specific feature of an > > arid area where the bare soil is exposed due to erosion? > > I have no idea of what 'badlands' are .. from your information it is not > single land cover nor a land form. > So it is a climate? A climate that causes erosion to a bare surface? No > vegetation? > > > > > > > ___ > Tagging mailing list > Tagging@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Areas of bare soil (clay, silt, loam) such as badlands?
On 20/10/19 11:19, Joseph Eisenberg wrote: How should areas of bare soil, such as badlands, be tagged? Currently there are documented tags for dry areas of bedrock, stones and sand: natural=bare_rock, natural=shingle, natural=scree, and natural=sand For tidal areas, beaches and wetlands there's also natural=beach, natural=shoal and wetland=mud However, there's no documented, common tag for dry areas of exposed clay, silt or mixed soil. natural=badlands has been used 5 times, but this is rather specific and may not be well-known outside of North America: https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/tags/natural=badlands natural=desert is common, but includes all kinds of vegetated and unvegetated arid areas; many of these can be tagged with natural= grassland, heath, scrub, sand, scree etc. Desert is a climate, not a land cover nor a land form. Some deserts include 'lakes'. The key natural has climate, land form and land cover all in the one tagging scheme, I don't think is is a good scheme and would be better separated into the individual things it is trying to tag. natural=clay has been used twice: https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/tags/natural=clay natural=earth has been used 20 times: https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/tags/natural=earth natural=bare_earth has 23 uses: https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/tags/natural=bare_earth There's also natural=pebbles with 67 uses (https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/tags/natural=pebbles) and natural=gravel 90 times - https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/tags/natural=gravel But most of those could be scree or shingle, which would be more specific. Would it be best to describe the type of soil, like natural=clay, =silt, =earth, =pebbles, =gravel? Better to tag specific things rather than a group. Should mappers use surface=* without another top-level tag? No. Should natural=bare_earth be used in general for clay and other bare soils? Or is natural=badlands best to describe the specific feature of an arid area where the bare soil is exposed due to erosion? I have no idea of what 'badlands' are .. from your information it is not single land cover nor a land form. So it is a climate? A climate that causes erosion to a bare surface? No vegetation? ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
[Tagging] Areas of bare soil (clay, silt, loam) such as badlands?
How should areas of bare soil, such as badlands, be tagged? Currently there are documented tags for dry areas of bedrock, stones and sand: natural=bare_rock, natural=shingle, natural=scree, and natural=sand For tidal areas, beaches and wetlands there's also natural=beach, natural=shoal and wetland=mud However, there's no documented, common tag for dry areas of exposed clay, silt or mixed soil. natural=badlands has been used 5 times, but this is rather specific and may not be well-known outside of North America: https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/tags/natural=badlands natural=desert is common, but includes all kinds of vegetated and unvegetated arid areas; many of these can be tagged with natural= grassland, heath, scrub, sand, scree etc. natural=clay has been used twice: https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/tags/natural=clay natural=earth has been used 20 times: https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/tags/natural=earth natural=bare_earth has 23 uses: https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/tags/natural=bare_earth There's also natural=pebbles with 67 uses (https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/tags/natural=pebbles) and natural=gravel 90 times - https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/tags/natural=gravel But most of those could be scree or shingle, which would be more specific. Would it be best to describe the type of soil, like natural=clay, =silt, =earth, =pebbles, =gravel? Should mappers use surface=* without another top-level tag? Should natural=bare_earth be used in general for clay and other bare soils? Or is natural=badlands best to describe the specific feature of an arid area where the bare soil is exposed due to erosion? - Joseph ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
