Re: [Tagging] Meaning of cycleway=no

2017-07-20 Thread Paul Johnson 
On Tue, Jul 18, 2017 at 3:55 PM, Wiktor Niesiobedzki  wrote:
>
> Can anybody point me to explanation of this tag value? Should it's use
> be discouraged by validators / presets? (at least combinations as
> highway=cycleway + cycleway=no)
>

highway=cycleway + cycleway=no is definitely a nonstarter.

cycleway=no means that there is no bicycle facility.  highway=cycleway
means that it's built only for, or primarily for, cycling.  In the US, this
would effectively be the same as a multiuse path, but with marked lanes
and/or signage, and may include a provision for pedestrians such as
sidewalks, like this one in Tulsa
 (location
).
A common arrangement would be to be open to pedestrian traffic, but provide
no facility for walking, such as this one in Jenks, Oklahoma
 (location
).
More elaborate arrangements would be like this one in Helmrich Park
 (location
),
where the sidewalk is fully separated (visible on left) from the sidewalk
(foreground).  The former only allows pedestrians, the latter allows
cyclists and skaters.
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Re: [Tagging] Meaning of cycleway=no

2017-07-20 Thread Wiktor Niesiobedzki 
2017-07-19 10:37 GMT+02:00 Adam Snape :
> I agree with Wiktor that we shoud use the access tag bicycle=no when
> cycling' is prohibited.
> I agree with Volker that the logical meaning of cycleway=no is that there
> are no cycle tracks or lanes along a section of highway. This might be
> useful information in a similar way to sidewalk=no, not useless like
> building=no  landuse=no.
>

How does tagging cycleway=no should affect routing or rendering? My
guess it's indistinguishable from having no cycleway tag at all.If
this is used only as a communication between mappers, why then not use
note= tag?

Cheers,

Wiktor

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Re: [Tagging] Meaning of cycleway=no

2017-07-19 Thread marc marc 
Le 19. 07. 17 à 09:40, Wiktor Niesiobedzki a écrit :
> 2017-07-18 23:32 GMT+02:00 marc marc :
>> Le 18. 07. 17 à 22:55, Wiktor Niesiobedzki a écrit :
>>> Can anybody point me to explanation of this tag value?
>>
>> I would use this tag only whre there is a traffic_sign that forbit
>> cycling where it shoul be allowed without this sign
> 
> Why not "bicycle=no" in such situation?
forget my previous reply. I badly read your question

Regard,
Marc
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Re: [Tagging] Meaning of cycleway=no

2017-07-19 Thread Adam Snape 
highway=cycleway + cycleway=no can only logically be interpreted as a cycle
way where there is no separation of cycle traffic from other users of the
cycleway. The segregated=no tag would be more appropriate for that scenario

Regards,

Adam

On 18 Jul 2017 9:57 p.m., "Wiktor Niesiobedzki"  wrote:

> Hi,
>
> Recently I read in OSM Weekly about new maps by MapCat. Driven by
> curiosity I opened this map and when I switched to bike mode in my
> city I notice a lot of non-existing cycling infrastructure. After
> investigation I discovered that MapCat renders all values of cycleway
> as bike lane, what in presence of "no" value is an apparent bug[1].
>
> Looking on taginfo, it seems, that cycleway=no is second most used value
> in OSM:
> https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/keys/cycleway#values
>
> Though I find it hard to understand, what it means. We could give a
> lot of tags with "no" value - building=no on landuse= and highway= and
> so on. Even I found combination of highway=cycleway + cycleway=no.
>
> As I asked this question on Polish OSM forum and Mateusz updated wiki
> page: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:cycleway#Other_values
> with description of "no" value.
>
> Can anybody point me to explanation of this tag value? Should it's use
> be discouraged by validators / presets? (at least combinations as
> highway=cycleway + cycleway=no)
>
>
> Cheers,
>
> Wiktor
>
> [1] - https://mapcat.userecho.com/topics/69-do-not-render-
> cyclewayno-as-bike-lane/
>
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Re: [Tagging] Meaning of cycleway=no

2017-07-19 Thread Martin Koppenhoefer 


sent from a phone

On 19. Jul 2017, at 09:40, Wiktor Niesiobedzki  wrote:

>> I would use this tag only whre there is a traffic_sign that forbit
>> cycling where it shoul be allowed without this sign
> 
> Why not "bicycle=no" in such situation?


+1, cycleway is not an access restriction but a tag about cycling 
infrastructure (I'd not use "no" but would assume it means: neither cycling 
lane nor track are present).

cheers,
Martin 
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Re: [Tagging] Meaning of cycleway=no

2017-07-19 Thread Adam Snape 
I agree with Wiktor that we shoud use the access tag bicycle=no when
cycling' is prohibited.
I agree with Volker that the logical meaning of cycleway=no is that there
are no cycle tracks or lanes along a section of highway. This might be
useful information in a similar way to sidewalk=no, not useless like
building=no  landuse=no.

On 19 Jul 2017 8:43 a.m., "Wiktor Niesiobedzki"  wrote:

> 2017-07-18 23:32 GMT+02:00 marc marc :
> > Le 18. 07. 17 à 22:55, Wiktor Niesiobedzki a écrit :
> >> Can anybody point me to explanation of this tag value?
> >
> > I would use this tag only whre there is a traffic_sign that forbit
> > cycling where it shoul be allowed without this sign
>
> Why not "bicycle=no" in such situation?
>
> >
> >> Should it's use be discouraged by validators / presets?
> >> (at least combinations as highway=cycleway + cycleway=no)
> >
> > It seems to be an error.
> > maybe ask the contributor for the meaning of those tags
>
> Haven't found recent contribution with cycleway=no. Most of those that
> I investigated where ~3-5 years old.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Wiktor
>
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Re: [Tagging] Meaning of cycleway=no

2017-07-19 Thread Wiktor Niesiobedzki 
2017-07-18 23:45 GMT+02:00 Volker Schmidt :
> "cycleway=no" on a highway=XX object means that the road has no cycleway
> associated with it, i.e. none of the values
> cycleway=yes|both|left|right|lnane|...
> To my knowledge the "no" value is not documented. The tag cycleway=no is
> often applied by ID users and has nesarly 20 uses.
>

I did some digging in some examples I have identified in Poland. Looks
like all of the ones, that I look at where created by Potlatch...

Looking at: 
https://github.com/openstreetmap/potlatch2/blob/233799c18c25b0f6aeec8c99c603ea9e02afa1d9/resources/map_features.xml

It looks like when describing the road, when user selects "no bike
lanes" this will result in setting cycleway=no. I don't see any way to
set cycleway=no on highway=cycleway though.

Cheers,

Wiktor

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Re: [Tagging] Meaning of cycleway=no

2017-07-19 Thread Wiktor Niesiobedzki 
2017-07-18 23:32 GMT+02:00 marc marc :
> Le 18. 07. 17 à 22:55, Wiktor Niesiobedzki a écrit :
>> Can anybody point me to explanation of this tag value?
>
> I would use this tag only whre there is a traffic_sign that forbit
> cycling where it shoul be allowed without this sign

Why not "bicycle=no" in such situation?

>
>> Should it's use be discouraged by validators / presets?
>> (at least combinations as highway=cycleway + cycleway=no)
>
> It seems to be an error.
> maybe ask the contributor for the meaning of those tags

Haven't found recent contribution with cycleway=no. Most of those that
I investigated where ~3-5 years old.

Cheers,

Wiktor

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Re: [Tagging] Meaning of cycleway=no

2017-07-18 Thread Volker Schmidt 
"cycleway=no" on a highway=XX object means that the road has no cycleway
associated with it, i.e. none of the values
cycleway=yes|both|left|right|lnane|...
To my knowledge the "no" value is not documented. The tag cycleway=no is
often applied by ID users and has nesarly 20 uses.

On 18 July 2017 at 23:32, marc marc  wrote:

> Le 18. 07. 17 à 22:55, Wiktor Niesiobedzki a écrit :
> > Can anybody point me to explanation of this tag value?
>
> I would use this tag only whre there is a traffic_sign that forbit
> cycling where it shoul be allowed without this sign
>
> > Should it's use be discouraged by validators / presets?
> > (at least combinations as highway=cycleway + cycleway=no)
>
> It seems to be an error.
> maybe ask the contributor for the meaning of those tags
>
> Regards,
> Marc
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Re: [Tagging] Meaning of cycleway=no

2017-07-18 Thread marc marc 
Le 18. 07. 17 à 22:55, Wiktor Niesiobedzki a écrit :
> Can anybody point me to explanation of this tag value?

I would use this tag only whre there is a traffic_sign that forbit 
cycling where it shoul be allowed without this sign

> Should it's use be discouraged by validators / presets? 
> (at least combinations as highway=cycleway + cycleway=no)

It seems to be an error.
maybe ask the contributor for the meaning of those tags

Regards,
Marc
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[Tagging] Meaning of cycleway=no

2017-07-18 Thread Wiktor Niesiobedzki 
Hi,

Recently I read in OSM Weekly about new maps by MapCat. Driven by
curiosity I opened this map and when I switched to bike mode in my
city I notice a lot of non-existing cycling infrastructure. After
investigation I discovered that MapCat renders all values of cycleway
as bike lane, what in presence of "no" value is an apparent bug[1].

Looking on taginfo, it seems, that cycleway=no is second most used value in OSM:
https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/keys/cycleway#values

Though I find it hard to understand, what it means. We could give a
lot of tags with "no" value - building=no on landuse= and highway= and
so on. Even I found combination of highway=cycleway + cycleway=no.

As I asked this question on Polish OSM forum and Mateusz updated wiki
page: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:cycleway#Other_values
with description of "no" value.

Can anybody point me to explanation of this tag value? Should it's use
be discouraged by validators / presets? (at least combinations as
highway=cycleway + cycleway=no)


Cheers,

Wiktor

[1] - 
https://mapcat.userecho.com/topics/69-do-not-render-cyclewayno-as-bike-lane/

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