Re: [Tagging] Smoothness possible values, straw poll.
Can we copy some of this: for other vehicles than mtb:
http://www.dirtopia.com/wiki/4WD_Trail_Rating?
On Wed, Mar 18, 2015 at 6:55 AM David Bannon dban...@internode.on.net
wrote:
On Tue, 2015-03-17 at 16:39 -0700, Bryce Nesbitt wrote:
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:mtb:scale
At grade 6, it's a list of things including a drop of over 2m.
It's fairly well fleshed out.
True, but the other downhill scales, 0-5, have no measurables except
gradient.
If we can have such a scale for MTB and dirt bikes, why not for four
wheeled vehicles ? Copy the style and approach ?
Incidentally, take a look at where that guy on scale=4 is heading,
crazy !
David
On Tue, Mar 17, 2015 at 2:53 PM, David Bannon
dban...@internode.on.net wrote:
On Mon, 2015-03-16 at 23:22 -0700, Bryce Nesbitt wrote:
road_usable=car;4x4;mt
Tag what's there: measure something. Don't tag an
interpretation.
Bryce, please tell us how it should be done then. Don't just
sit there
saying computer says no. A drovers dog can tell this
capability is
needed. Look at how many proposals there have been, at how
many times
its hit this thread.
No telling what a drovers dog is, but:
highway=track
surface=dirt
constraint:cobble_size:sustained=15cm
constraint:cobble_size:average=25cm
constraint:sand:worst=30cm
constraint:side_slope:worst=22degrees
---
highway=track
surface=dirt
surface:variation={1-smooth,2-rough,3-potholed,4-rutted,5-deeply_rutted}
surface:constraints=steep;narrow;side_slope;sand;winch_
section;hells_angels
---
highway=track
surface=dirt
surface:mtb={0-5} (Tag segments, or add s for sustained or x the
worst case. 5s 5x is thus harder than 1s 5x)
surface:4wd={0-5}
surface:2wd={0-5}
surface:hgv={0-5}
surface:motorbike={0-5}
surface:width=6m
surface:constraints=steep;hello_kitty_gang;puncture vine
---
And I previously posed that a survey of users would help, as long as
multiple answers are allowed:
User: Fred, Date: 2015-01-01 Condition report: went right through in a
Yugo with two flat tires. Vehicle=2wd
User: Fredy, Date: 2015-01-02 Condition report: impassable via car
after rain, had to turn back at Big Creek, nearly lost it at cliff.
Vehicle=4wd
User: Fredyy, Date: 2015-01-05 Condition report: alien encampment at
milepost 23 - nearly ate my vehicle. Vehicle=spaceship
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Re: [Tagging] Smoothness possible values, straw poll.
On Wed, 2015-03-18 at 05:58 +, Jan van Bekkum wrote:
Can we copy some of this: for other vehicles than
mtb: http://www.dirtopia.com/wiki/4WD_Trail_Rating?
Indeed, I spent a bit of time driving in their neighbour, Utah, national
Parks. From memory, some tracks there were graded, similar ?
Would you suggest the 1-10 descriptive track model or the 0-5 vehicle
scale ?
I'd prefer the vehicle one because thats what a user wants but know only
too well there will be cries of 'subjective'. But ask any
existentialist, they will tell you life itself is subjective.
David
On Wed, Mar 18, 2015 at 6:55 AM David Bannon
dban...@internode.on.net wrote:
On Tue, 2015-03-17 at 16:39 -0700, Bryce Nesbitt wrote:
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:mtb:scale
At grade 6, it's a list of things including a drop of over
2m.
It's fairly well fleshed out.
True, but the other downhill scales, 0-5, have no measurables
except
gradient.
If we can have such a scale for MTB and dirt bikes, why not
for four
wheeled vehicles ? Copy the style and approach ?
Incidentally, take a look at where that guy on scale=4 is
heading,
crazy !
David
On Tue, Mar 17, 2015 at 2:53 PM, David Bannon
dban...@internode.on.net wrote:
On Mon, 2015-03-16 at 23:22 -0700, Bryce Nesbitt
wrote:
road_usable=car;4x4;mt
Tag what's there: measure something. Don't tag an
interpretation.
Bryce, please tell us how it should be done then.
Don't just
sit there
saying computer says no. A drovers dog can tell
this
capability is
needed. Look at how many proposals there have been,
at how
many times
its hit this thread.
No telling what a drovers dog is, but:
highway=track
surface=dirt
constraint:cobble_size:sustained=15cm
constraint:cobble_size:average=25cm
constraint:sand:worst=30cm
constraint:side_slope:worst=22degrees
---
highway=track
surface=dirt
surface:variation={1-smooth,2-rough,3-potholed,4-rutted,5-deeply_rutted}
surface:constraints=steep;narrow;side_slope;sand;winch_section;hells_angels
---
highway=track
surface=dirt
surface:mtb={0-5} (Tag segments, or add s for sustained
or x the
worst case. 5s 5x is thus harder than 1s 5x)
surface:4wd={0-5}
surface:2wd={0-5}
surface:hgv={0-5}
surface:motorbike={0-5}
surface:width=6m
surface:constraints=steep;hello_kitty_gang;puncture vine
---
And I previously posed that a survey of users would help, as
long as
multiple answers are allowed:
User: Fred, Date: 2015-01-01 Condition report: went right
through in a
Yugo with two flat tires. Vehicle=2wd
User: Fredy, Date: 2015-01-02 Condition report: impassable
via car
after rain, had to turn back at Big Creek, nearly lost it at
cliff.
Vehicle=4wd
User: Fredyy, Date: 2015-01-05 Condition report: alien
encampment at
milepost 23 - nearly ate my vehicle. Vehicle=spaceship
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Re: [Tagging] Smoothness possible values, straw poll.
OK, must assume there is no strong feelings that new values are needed for smoothness= We had 3 votes for no change, and only one each for a range of possible models. So, lets drop it. Still leaves us with no way to indicate that one piece of information an end user is likely to ask, should I drive down that road ?. No stomach for a new subkey to highway= then ? Perhaps something like road_usable=car;4x4;mtb ?? David ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Smoothness possible values, straw poll.
On Mon, Mar 16, 2015 at 11:08 PM, David Bannon dban...@internode.on.net wrote: No stomach for a new subkey to highway= then ? Perhaps something like road_usable=car;4x4;mtb No. Same problem. Just because you think a car can't get down that road, does not mean I can't get down that road in a car. Tag what's there: measure something. Don't tag an interpretation. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Smoothness possible values, straw poll.
On Mon, 2015-03-16 at 23:22 -0700, Bryce Nesbitt wrote: road_usable=car;4x4;mtb Tag what's there: measure something. Don't tag an interpretation. Bryce, please tell us how it should be done then. Don't just sit there saying computer says no. A drovers dog can tell this capability is needed. Look at how many proposals there have been, at how many times its hit this thread. Incidentally, what exactly are we measuring with http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:smoothness ? or http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:dirtbike:scale or http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:mtb:scale David David ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Smoothness possible values, straw poll.
On Tue, Mar 17, 2015 at 2:53 PM, David Bannon dban...@internode.on.net
wrote:
Incidentally, what exactly are we measuring with
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:mtb:scale
At grade 6, it's a list of things including a drop of over 2m.
It's fairly well fleshed out.
On Tue, Mar 17, 2015 at 2:53 PM, David Bannon dban...@internode.on.net
wrote:
On Mon, 2015-03-16 at 23:22 -0700, Bryce Nesbitt wrote:
road_usable=car;4x4;mt
Tag what's there: measure something. Don't tag an interpretation.
Bryce, please tell us how it should be done then. Don't just sit there
saying computer says no. A drovers dog can tell this capability is
needed. Look at how many proposals there have been, at how many times
its hit this thread.
No telling what a drovers dog is, but:
highway=track
surface=dirt
constraint:cobble_size:sustained=15cm
constraint:cobble_size:average=25cm
constraint:sand:worst=30cm
constraint:side_slope:worst=22degrees
---
highway=track
surface=dirt
surface:variation={1-smooth,2-rough,3-potholed,4-rutted,5-deeply_rutted}
surface:constraints=steep;narrow;side_slope;sand;winch_section;hells_angels
---
highway=track
surface=dirt
surface:mtb={0-5} (Tag segments, or add s for sustained or x the worst
case. 5s 5x is thus harder than 1s 5x)
surface:4wd={0-5}
surface:2wd={0-5}
surface:hgv={0-5}
surface:motorbike={0-5}
surface:width=6m
surface:constraints=steep;hello_kitty_gang;puncture vine
---
And I previously posed that a survey of users would help, as long as
multiple answers are allowed:
User: Fred, Date: 2015-01-01 Condition report: went right through in a Yugo
with two flat tires. Vehicle=2wd
User: Fredy, Date: 2015-01-02 Condition report: impassable via car after
rain, had to turn back at Big Creek, nearly lost it at cliff. Vehicle=4wd
User: Fredyy, Date: 2015-01-05 Condition report: alien encampment at
milepost 23 - nearly ate my vehicle. Vehicle=spaceship
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Re: [Tagging] Smoothness possible values, straw poll.
No stomach for a new subkey to highway= then ? Perhaps something like road_usable=car;4x4;mtb We went around and around with a key called trafficability a few months ago. Yep, it's a word. Look it up and you will find: *the condition of soil or terrain with regard to its being traveled over, as by people, vehicles, or * *machinery* We could not find consensus then and sadly, I'm afraid we won't find it now. On Tue, Mar 17, 2015 at 1:22 PM, Bryce Nesbitt bry...@obviously.com wrote: On Mon, Mar 16, 2015 at 11:08 PM, David Bannon dban...@internode.on.net wrote: No stomach for a new subkey to highway= then ? Perhaps something like road_usable=car;4x4;mtb No. Same problem. Just because you think a car can't get down that road, does not mean I can't get down that road in a car. Tag what's there: measure something. Don't tag an interpretation. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging -- Dave Swarthout Homer, Alaska Chiang Mai, Thailand Travel Blog at http://dswarthout.blogspot.com ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Smoothness possible values, straw poll.
On Tue, 2015-03-17 at 16:39 -0700, Bryce Nesbitt wrote:
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:mtb:scale
At grade 6, it's a list of things including a drop of over 2m.
It's fairly well fleshed out.
True, but the other downhill scales, 0-5, have no measurables except
gradient.
If we can have such a scale for MTB and dirt bikes, why not for four
wheeled vehicles ? Copy the style and approach ?
Incidentally, take a look at where that guy on scale=4 is heading,
crazy !
David
On Tue, Mar 17, 2015 at 2:53 PM, David Bannon
dban...@internode.on.net wrote:
On Mon, 2015-03-16 at 23:22 -0700, Bryce Nesbitt wrote:
road_usable=car;4x4;mt
Tag what's there: measure something. Don't tag an
interpretation.
Bryce, please tell us how it should be done then. Don't just
sit there
saying computer says no. A drovers dog can tell this
capability is
needed. Look at how many proposals there have been, at how
many times
its hit this thread.
No telling what a drovers dog is, but:
highway=track
surface=dirt
constraint:cobble_size:sustained=15cm
constraint:cobble_size:average=25cm
constraint:sand:worst=30cm
constraint:side_slope:worst=22degrees
---
highway=track
surface=dirt
surface:variation={1-smooth,2-rough,3-potholed,4-rutted,5-deeply_rutted}
surface:constraints=steep;narrow;side_slope;sand;winch_section;hells_angels
---
highway=track
surface=dirt
surface:mtb={0-5} (Tag segments, or add s for sustained or x the
worst case. 5s 5x is thus harder than 1s 5x)
surface:4wd={0-5}
surface:2wd={0-5}
surface:hgv={0-5}
surface:motorbike={0-5}
surface:width=6m
surface:constraints=steep;hello_kitty_gang;puncture vine
---
And I previously posed that a survey of users would help, as long as
multiple answers are allowed:
User: Fred, Date: 2015-01-01 Condition report: went right through in a
Yugo with two flat tires. Vehicle=2wd
User: Fredy, Date: 2015-01-02 Condition report: impassable via car
after rain, had to turn back at Big Creek, nearly lost it at cliff.
Vehicle=4wd
User: Fredyy, Date: 2015-01-05 Condition report: alien encampment at
milepost 23 - nearly ate my vehicle. Vehicle=spaceship
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Re: [Tagging] Smoothness possible values, straw poll.
David Bannon-2 wrote 1. Numeric tags, perhaps grade1 .. grade8 similar to tracktype. For information, that proposition was created a few month after the smoothness acceptation to avoid using subjective sounding words like very_bad/bad/good : http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/usability But wasn't accepted as it didn't change the core subjectivity of the proposal. But I do personnaly still prefer scale numbers (it's easier to remember that 3 is lower than 4) than remembering intermediate is better than good David Bannon-2 wrote 2. Words that describe the smoothness - glassy -smooth -rough -bumpy - rutted no, because the smoothness tag isn't about smoothness of the surface David Bannon-2 wrote 3. Words that describe the (wheeled) vehicle that might use it - Any_vehicle, cispecialized_off_road_wheelsty_car_bike, 4x4_mtb, off_road_vehicle, extreme_vehicle, none. yes, but no need to re-invent the wheel, http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:smoothness allready lists thin_rollers / high_clearance / specialized_off_road_wheels as alternatives - -- sly, contact direct : sylvain /a\ letuffe o r g http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:Sletuffe -- View this message in context: http://gis.19327.n5.nabble.com/Smoothness-possible-values-straw-poll-tp5837081p5837227.html Sent from the Tagging mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Smoothness possible values, straw poll.
+1 On 14/03/15 08:20, Mateusz Konieczny wrote: Numeric tags, perhaps grade1 .. grade8 similar to tracktype. - exchanges old problem for a new one, at huge cost and with no benefit. glassy -smooth -rough -bumpy - rutted - will have the same problems as current values, plus no clear progression of values (maybe there is for native speakers), also glassy sounds like too smooth, plus conversion cost Any_vehicle, city_car_bike, 4x4_mtb, off_road_vehicle, extreme_vehicle, none. - to quote Jan a stretch of road that is reasonable for a 4WD can be horrible for a motorcycle and vice versa. Though separate tagging for vehicle types is probably a good idea - but it requires no change for values. So - I am against any of proposed changes. 2015-03-14 4:00 GMT+01:00 David dban...@internode.on.net mailto:dban...@internode.on.net: Been a good discussion on new tags for smoothness=. Time, imho, to ask people to indicate just what they do like. How about a show of hands for one or more of - 1. Numeric tags, perhaps grade1 .. grade8 similar to tracktype. 2. Words that describe the smoothness - glassy -smooth -rough -bumpy - rutted 3. Words that describe the (wheeled) vehicle that might use it - Any_vehicle, city_car_bike, 4x4_mtb, off_road_vehicle, extreme_vehicle, none. Don't fuss over the actual values i have quoted, i am sure we can do better. But you can see the differing emphasis. In every case, assume we can/will have a good description behind each value. Or not ? It might also be worthwhile indicating how strong you feel about your choice. I'd prefer #1, #3 then, if i must, #2. 2 assumes too much about what makes the road difficult. David . Martin Vonwald imagic@gmail.com mailto:imagic@gmail.com wrote: Hi! 2015-03-13 2:06 GMT+01:00 David dban...@internode.on.net mailto:dban...@internode.on.net: No, numeric values are not a good choice - really not. I also don't like the values much, but at least it's clear that good is better than bad. But Martin, its not a good or bad situation, thats the point. Some people seek out extremely challenging roads to traverse. While dead smooth is good while getting there, why bother to go there if its going to be smooth all the way ? That's not what I meant. If someone has no idea about the meaning of the values and just look at the existing tags, one may guess correctly, that good means smoother than bad. But what is smoother? grade1 or grade5? And please do not claim that everyone will look in the wiki what the values actually mean. Please stay realistic ;-) And to answer the next argument: but if people don't know the exact meaning and also don't look in the wiki, we can not be sure that they use the values correctly. Yes. We can also not be sure that they use the values correctly IF the look in the wiki. But the chances that we get more appropriate values is much higher with smoothness=good than with smoothness=grade97, because a good smoothness will have a much wider common understanding than smoothness=31415whatever. Best regards, Martin P.S: I'm aware that we will not reach consensus about this on this mailing list ;-) ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org mailto:Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging -- Twitter: http://twitter.com/ravilacoya Por favor, non me envíe documentos con extensións .doc, .docx, .xls, .xlsx, .ppt, .pptx, aínda podendoo facer, non os abro. Atendendo á lexislación vixente, empregue formatos estándares e abertos. http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenDocument#Tipos_de_ficheros ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Smoothness possible values, straw poll.
Can we learn something from this: http://www.dirtopia.com/wiki/4WD_Trail_Rating? On Sat, Mar 14, 2015 at 9:49 AM Jan van Bekkum jan.vanbek...@gmail.com wrote: The biggest step ahead is that is now is part of the highway=* preset in JOSM with a description of the levels. I can certainly live with that. Using the tag is the most important, more than refining it. On Sat, Mar 14, 2015 at 9:38 AM Lukas Sommer sommer...@gmail.com wrote: So - I am against any of proposed changes. +1 ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Smoothness possible values, straw poll.
On Sat, Mar 14, 2015 at 1:24 PM, Jan van Bekkum jan.vanbek...@gmail.com wrote: Can we learn something from this: http://www.dirtopia.com/wiki/4WD_Trail_Rating? Maybe learn about vehicles. Not so applicable to hikers. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Smoothness possible values, straw poll.
Combination of 2 and 3. It must be possible to distinguish between vehicles. As I wrote earlier a stretch of road that is reasonable for a 4WD can be horrible for a motorcycle and vice versa. A scale in words very bad, bad, ... very good or whatever at least helps me to remember what the good end of the scale is. The first time I will have to look in the wiki to get a feeling about the boundaries between the levels, after that I should be able to do without. On Sat, Mar 14, 2015 at 6:44 AM Ineiev ine...@gnu.org wrote: On Sat, Mar 14, 2015 at 02:00:51PM +1100, David wrote: Been a good discussion on new tags for smoothness=. Time, imho, to ask people to indicate just what they do like. How about a show of hands for one or more of - 1. Numeric tags, perhaps grade1 .. grade8 similar to tracktype. 2. Words that describe the smoothness - glassy -smooth -rough -bumpy - rutted 3. Words that describe the (wheeled) vehicle that might use it - Any_vehicle, city_car_bike, 4x4_mtb, off_road_vehicle, extreme_vehicle, none. 4. Combined: grade1 ... grade8 glassy smooth ... any_vehicle ... extreme_vehicle and grade1;glassy;any_vehicle (or surface_grade=1 roughness=glassy approved_for=any_vehicle). ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Smoothness possible values, straw poll.
The biggest step ahead is that is now is part of the highway=* preset in JOSM with a description of the levels. I can certainly live with that. Using the tag is the most important, more than refining it. On Sat, Mar 14, 2015 at 9:38 AM Lukas Sommer sommer...@gmail.com wrote: So - I am against any of proposed changes. +1 ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Smoothness possible values, straw poll.
Numeric tags, perhaps grade1 .. grade8 similar to tracktype. - exchanges old problem for a new one, at huge cost and with no benefit. glassy -smooth -rough -bumpy - rutted - will have the same problems as current values, plus no clear progression of values (maybe there is for native speakers), also glassy sounds like too smooth, plus conversion cost Any_vehicle, city_car_bike, 4x4_mtb, off_road_vehicle, extreme_vehicle, none. - to quote Jan a stretch of road that is reasonable for a 4WD can be horrible for a motorcycle and vice versa. Though separate tagging for vehicle types is probably a good idea - but it requires no change for values. So - I am against any of proposed changes. 2015-03-14 4:00 GMT+01:00 David dban...@internode.on.net: Been a good discussion on new tags for smoothness=. Time, imho, to ask people to indicate just what they do like. How about a show of hands for one or more of - 1. Numeric tags, perhaps grade1 .. grade8 similar to tracktype. 2. Words that describe the smoothness - glassy -smooth -rough -bumpy - rutted 3. Words that describe the (wheeled) vehicle that might use it - Any_vehicle, city_car_bike, 4x4_mtb, off_road_vehicle, extreme_vehicle, none. Don't fuss over the actual values i have quoted, i am sure we can do better. But you can see the differing emphasis. In every case, assume we can/will have a good description behind each value. Or not ? It might also be worthwhile indicating how strong you feel about your choice. I'd prefer #1, #3 then, if i must, #2. 2 assumes too much about what makes the road difficult. David . Martin Vonwald imagic@gmail.com wrote: Hi! 2015-03-13 2:06 GMT+01:00 David dban...@internode.on.net: No, numeric values are not a good choice - really not. I also don't like the values much, but at least it's clear that good is better than bad. But Martin, its not a good or bad situation, thats the point. Some people seek out extremely challenging roads to traverse. While dead smooth is good while getting there, why bother to go there if its going to be smooth all the way ? That's not what I meant. If someone has no idea about the meaning of the values and just look at the existing tags, one may guess correctly, that good means smoother than bad. But what is smoother? grade1 or grade5? And please do not claim that everyone will look in the wiki what the values actually mean. Please stay realistic ;-) And to answer the next argument: but if people don't know the exact meaning and also don't look in the wiki, we can not be sure that they use the values correctly. Yes. We can also not be sure that they use the values correctly IF the look in the wiki. But the chances that we get more appropriate values is much higher with smoothness=good than with smoothness=grade97, because a good smoothness will have a much wider common understanding than smoothness=31415whatever. Best regards, Martin P.S: I'm aware that we will not reach consensus about this on this mailing list ;-) ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Smoothness possible values, straw poll.
So - I am against any of proposed changes. +1 ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
[Tagging] Smoothness possible values, straw poll.
Been a good discussion on new tags for smoothness=. Time, imho, to ask people to indicate just what they do like. How about a show of hands for one or more of - 1. Numeric tags, perhaps grade1 .. grade8 similar to tracktype. 2. Words that describe the smoothness - glassy -smooth -rough -bumpy - rutted 3. Words that describe the (wheeled) vehicle that might use it - Any_vehicle, city_car_bike, 4x4_mtb, off_road_vehicle, extreme_vehicle, none. Don't fuss over the actual values i have quoted, i am sure we can do better. But you can see the differing emphasis. In every case, assume we can/will have a good description behind each value. Or not ? It might also be worthwhile indicating how strong you feel about your choice. I'd prefer #1, #3 then, if i must, #2. 2 assumes too much about what makes the road difficult. David . Martin Vonwald imagic@gmail.com wrote: Hi! 2015-03-13 2:06 GMT+01:00 David dban...@internode.on.net: No, numeric values are not a good choice - really not. I also don't like the values much, but at least it's clear that good is better than bad. But Martin, its not a good or bad situation, thats the point. Some people seek out extremely challenging roads to traverse. While dead smooth is good while getting there, why bother to go there if its going to be smooth all the way ? That's not what I meant. If someone has no idea about the meaning of the values and just look at the existing tags, one may guess correctly, that good means smoother than bad. But what is smoother? grade1 or grade5? And please do not claim that everyone will look in the wiki what the values actually mean. Please stay realistic ;-) And to answer the next argument: but if people don't know the exact meaning and also don't look in the wiki, we can not be sure that they use the values correctly. Yes. We can also not be sure that they use the values correctly IF the look in the wiki. But the chances that we get more appropriate values is much higher with smoothness=good than with smoothness=grade97, because a good smoothness will have a much wider common understanding than smoothness=31415whatever. Best regards, Martin P.S: I'm aware that we will not reach consensus about this on this mailing list ;-) ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Smoothness possible values, straw poll.
On Sat, Mar 14, 2015 at 02:00:51PM +1100, David wrote: Been a good discussion on new tags for smoothness=. Time, imho, to ask people to indicate just what they do like. How about a show of hands for one or more of - 1. Numeric tags, perhaps grade1 .. grade8 similar to tracktype. 2. Words that describe the smoothness - glassy -smooth -rough -bumpy - rutted 3. Words that describe the (wheeled) vehicle that might use it - Any_vehicle, city_car_bike, 4x4_mtb, off_road_vehicle, extreme_vehicle, none. 4. Combined: grade1 ... grade8 glassy smooth ... any_vehicle ... extreme_vehicle and grade1;glassy;any_vehicle (or surface_grade=1 roughness=glassy approved_for=any_vehicle). ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
