Re: [Tagging] fire_hydrant extensions proposal
In Italy diameters are measured in millimeters. I think that the international standard (outside UK and US) is millimeters, not centimeters. Here for underground and over ground hydrants most commons diameters are 45 mm and 70 mm. Flow capacity is measured in liters / minute but in Italy normally it isn't published on the signs. Pressure is measured in bar, it is the pressure of the local water network, and in Italy normally this isn't published on the signs too. Alberto - Viking81 ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] fire_hydrant extensions proposal
Richard, On 09.03.13 20:07, Richard Welty wrote: i've started drafting a proposal for some tags to extend the fire_hydrant tagging system. Please keep in mind, there already a rather big list of possible tags: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/DE:Tag:emergency%3Dfire_hydrant (only in German) and what the OpenFireMap displays (the diameter): http://openfiremap.org/?zoom=17lat=48.11435lon=16.31743 in the US, the American Water Works Association has a classification system dividing hydrants into 4 groups based on their flow capacity (e.g., class AA is output greater than 1,500 gallons per second.) is there any equivalent in other parts of the world that should be factored into the tagging scheme? See http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hinweisschilder_zu_Stra%C3%9Feneinbauten (sorry, also German). Most important value (and shown on OpenFireMap in z17) is the nominal diameter, which classifies the hydrant. It is the inner diameter of the pipeline in millimeter and is typically 50, 80, 100, 150, 200, 250, 300, 400. HTH. /al ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] fire_hydrant extensions proposal
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/OpenFireMap has many details, too. /al ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] fire_hydrant extensions proposal
2013/3/11 Andreas Labres l...@lab.at: See http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hinweisschilder_zu_Stra%C3%9Feneinbauten (sorry, also German). Most important value (and shown on OpenFireMap in z17) is the nominal diameter, which classifies the hydrant. It is the inner diameter of the pipeline in millimeter and is typically 50, 80, 100, 150, 200, 250, 300, 400. Thanks Andreas, for posting this, especially the picture here can illustrate how this works in Germany (and probably other areas): http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Hinweisschilder_für_Hydrant_Wasser_und_Gas_102_2002.jpg For those of you not fluent in German here a short description: The white one with the red border is the sign interesting here (underfloor hydrant for the fire department, 100 is the diameter in mm, 13,7 is the horizontal distance in meters, 3,4 is the orthogonal distance in meters, measured from the sign position, MVV Energie is the operator (supposedly)). The blue and yellow sign are similarly describing the positions of the water and gas valve access points. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] fire_hydrant extensions proposal
On 3/11/13 7:25 AM, Andreas Labres wrote: Richard, On 09.03.13 20:07, Richard Welty wrote: i've started drafting a proposal for some tags to extend the fire_hydrant tagging system. Please keep in mind, there already a rather big list of possible tags: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/DE:Tag:emergency%3Dfire_hydrant (only in German) and what the OpenFireMap displays (the diameter): http://openfiremap.org/?zoom=17lat=48.11435lon=16.31743 i don't propose to change those tags, only supplement with tags relevant for US usage and possibly expand the suite for other locales where the usage is different. the internal diameter of the hydrant is not the dimension in common use in the US. in the US, usage is not standardized but departments generally think in terms of one of these approaches: 1) American Water Works Association classes (AA, A, B, C). this is a simple coding system for flow capacity 2) flow capacity in Gallons per Second 3) water main diameter (not hydrant diameter) internal hydrant diameter isn't going to play in the US, nor is pressure in bar, hence the proposal for extending the tagging system. i would also note that in the UK, according to the docs i've reviewed, the diameter recorded on the hydrant signs is the main diameter, not the internal hydrant diameter. richard ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] fire_hydrant extensions proposal
Am 11.03.2013 13:29, schrieb Richard Welty: On 3/11/13 7:25 AM, Andreas Labres wrote: Please keep in mind, there already a rather big list of possible tags: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/DE:Tag:emergency%3Dfire_hydrant (only in German) and what the OpenFireMap displays (the diameter): http://openfiremap.org/?zoom=17lat=48.11435lon=16.31743 3) water main diameter (not hydrant diameter) internal hydrant diameter isn't going to play in the US, nor is pressure in bar, hence the proposal for extending the tagging system. fire_hydrant:main_diameter is the same as fire_hydrant:diameter - at least in the current tagging usage and 'mappers meaning'. fire_hydrant:diameter is used for the _main_ _pipeline_ diameter, where the hydrant is fed from - as this is indicating the possible value of the water supply. (In theory the pressure is normalized ... in practice, well ...) Sure, this is a bit misleading ... it was developed from a german point of view regarding the signs and a short-as-possible key ... The hydrant pipe inner diameter is not tagged yet - afaik. In Germany the interfaces are standardized anyway - and the (underground) standpipe diameter may possibly vary (50, 80, 100), as it is a movable part from the fire brigade. Regards Georg ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] fire_hydrant extensions proposal
On 3/11/13 10:01 AM, Georg Feddern wrote: fire_hydrant:main_diameter is the same as fire_hydrant:diameter - at least in the current tagging usage and 'mappers meaning'. fire_hydrant:diameter is used for the _main_ _pipeline_ diameter, where the hydrant is fed from - as this is indicating the possible value of the water supply. (In theory the pressure is normalized ... in practice, well ...) Sure, this is a bit misleading ... it was developed from a german point of view regarding the signs and a short-as-possible key ... does anyone mind if i clarify this point in the wiki? i'll remove the fire_hydrant:main_diameter from my proposal; it's only in there because the current meaning of fire_hydrant:diameter was unclear. richard ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
[Tagging] fire_hydrant extensions proposal
i've started drafting a proposal for some tags to extend the fire_hydrant tagging system. i have a question for the non-US mappers... in the US, the American Water Works Association has a classification system dividing hydrants into 4 groups based on their flow capacity (e.g., class AA is output greater than 1,500 gallons per second.) is there any equivalent in other parts of the world that should be factored into the tagging scheme? for the US, GPS is the normal flow capacity unit. i presume that liters per second is the norm elsewhere. correct? for the US, water mains are specified in inches. i presume that centimeter is the correct unit elsewhere. correct? thanks, richard ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] fire_hydrant extensions proposal
On Sat, 9 Mar 2013, Richard Welty wrote: for the US, water mains are specified in inches. i presume that centimeter is the correct unit elsewhere. correct? In Finland, mm is used in all signs. I've not seen other classifications here besides the diameter. Then we only have only O marking in some signs with meaning that we've not been able to decrypt, yet :-). -- i. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] fire_hydrant extensions proposal
On 09/03/13 19:07, Richard Welty wrote: i've started drafting a proposal for some tags to extend the fire_hydrant tagging system. i have a question for the non-US mappers... in the US, the American Water Works Association has a classification system dividing hydrants into 4 groups based on their flow capacity (e.g., class AA is output greater than 1,500 gallons per second.) is there any equivalent in other parts of the world that should be factored into the tagging scheme? for the US, GPS is the normal flow capacity unit. i presume that liters per second is the norm elsewhere. correct? for the US, water mains are specified in inches. i presume that centimeter is the correct unit elsewhere. correct? In the UK, hydrants are almost also below ground level, with a cover to gain access. Nearby there is a yellow sign with a characteristic 'H' in black on the sign. There are two numbers: the upper is the diameter of the fitting usually now in millimetres but there may still be some in inches, the lower number is the distance in whole metres (or yards) from the sign to the hydrant cover. The water flow rate is determined by the local water pressure and the diameter of the pipe fitting. This is not published, as it seems are the location of the hydrants :-) http://chris-osm.blogspot.co.uk/2012/05/fire-hydrant-locations-are-confidential.html -- Cheers, Chris user: chillly ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] fire_hydrant extensions proposal
On Sat, 2013-03-09 at 14:07 -0500, Richard Welty wrote: i've started drafting a proposal for some tags to extend the fire_hydrant tagging system. i have a question for the non-US mappers... In the UK, fire hydrants are not the prominent feature they are in the US and Canada. Here they are metal covers in the road, or pavement. They are marked by a small sign, which specifies the distance from the sign to the hydrant. Not something we will find easy to map. I cannot think of the location of any in my hometown, although they will be there somewhere. The fire brigade will know exactly where they are. Its not something we can easily map completely, bound to miss some. They certainly does not have the navigational significance it does in North America where you can describe a house as near the fire hydrant. Can't help further, although I have heard inches used to specify the size of a water main. Phil (trigpoint) ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] fire_hydrant extensions proposal
On 3/9/13 2:30 PM, Philip Barnes wrote: On Sat, 2013-03-09 at 14:07 -0500, Richard Welty wrote: i've started drafting a proposal for some tags to extend the fire_hydrant tagging system. i have a question for the non-US mappers... The fire brigade will know exactly where they are. one of the motivations for this is that in the US, the fire department does not always know where they are. most VFDs or urban Engine Companies are fine in their own territory, but then they go out for mutual assistance calls, the hydrant information is often unknown to them. i know of departments that keep a rolodex file in each truck with hydrant info. the goal i'm heading for is a 7 android tablet running OsmAnd which can show any truck on a mutual aid call where the nearest hydrants are and what kind of flow they are capable of. the goal of this tagging proposal is to capture key information. not all of it will always be available, but some of it will. Its not something we can easily map completely, bound to miss some. They certainly does not have the navigational significance it does in North America where you can describe a house as near the fire hydrant. in the city of Albany, NY, it's actually quite the opposite. when the engine company gets the call sheet off the printer, it lists nearby hydrants in terms of the house number on the street that the hydranta are closest to. Can't help further, although I have heard inches used to specify the size of a water main. the proposal in its current form specifies that units can be inches, cm, or mm. it that's not enough i'll be shocked. richard ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
