[Tagging] fixme -- by a specific date

[Martijn van Exel]

Hi,

When mapping seasonal closures here in Utah[1] I realized I am still
missing a solid way to mark a road as closed for the season and then have
some level of confidence that someone will look at it in the spring and
'reopen' it. More generally for someone to map a feature and somehow tag it
as needing another look by a certain date.

I added a discussion section to the wiki[2] for the fixme tag where I
propose adding the fixme:by qualifier to indicate the (approximate) date by
which a mapper should look at the feature again.

There should be more use cases for this. I can think of proposed or
under-construction features for which you may know a projected start /
finish date. Or semi-permanent features that you know will disappear at
some point. I know HOT has interest in this kind of 'lifecycle' tagging as
well.

Martijn van Exel
http://mvexel.github.io/

[1] A lot of fairly major roads close here for the winter, typically
between November and May:
http://udottraffic.utah.gov/CLALertViewer.aspx?CLType=3
[2]
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:Proposed_features/Key:fixme#Revisit_by_a_certain_date
___
Tagging mailing list
Tagging@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging

Re: [Tagging] fixme -- by a specific date

[Bill Ricker]

On Mon, Nov 28, 2016 at 12:52 PM, Martijn van Exel  wrote:

> Hi,
>
> When mapping seasonal closures here in Utah[1] I realized I am still
> missing a solid way to mark a road as closed for the season and then have
> some level of confidence that someone will look at it in the spring and
> 'reopen' it. More generally for someone to map a feature and somehow tag it
> as needing another look by a certain date.
>

​Seems to me that seasonal roads should have some sort of seasonal
availability tag, similar to how a park gate might have dawn-to-dusk
availability, so that a router (possibly using a Lambertus Garmin map) to
get the right answer even if the download was not since the latest state
change. (Yes, there are some parkways through parks that are usable through
routes in daylight.)



-- 
Bill Ricker
bill.n1...@gmail.com
https://www.linkedin.com/in/n1vux
___
Tagging mailing list
Tagging@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging

Re: [Tagging] fixme -- by a specific date

[Martijn van Exel]

See https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/44013342 for a tagging example.

Martijn van Exel
http://mvexel.github.io/

On Mon, Nov 28, 2016 at 10:52 AM, Martijn van Exel  wrote:

> Hi,
>
> When mapping seasonal closures here in Utah[1] I realized I am still
> missing a solid way to mark a road as closed for the season and then have
> some level of confidence that someone will look at it in the spring and
> 'reopen' it. More generally for someone to map a feature and somehow tag it
> as needing another look by a certain date.
>
> I added a discussion section to the wiki[2] for the fixme tag where I
> propose adding the fixme:by qualifier to indicate the (approximate) date by
> which a mapper should look at the feature again.
>
> There should be more use cases for this. I can think of proposed or
> under-construction features for which you may know a projected start /
> finish date. Or semi-permanent features that you know will disappear at
> some point. I know HOT has interest in this kind of 'lifecycle' tagging as
> well.
>
> Martijn van Exel
> http://mvexel.github.io/
>
> [1] A lot of fairly major roads close here for the winter, typically
> between November and May: http://udottraffic.utah.gov/
> CLALertViewer.aspx?CLType=3
> [2] https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:Proposed_features/Key:fixme#
> Revisit_by_a_certain_date
>
___
Tagging mailing list
Tagging@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging

Re: [Tagging] fixme -- by a specific date

[Martijn van Exel]

Bill,

The seasonal tag[1] already exists for very general 'seasonal availability'
of features.  This works for a very rough approximation of actual
availability which may be enough for some use cases. This could (should?)
be used as a fallback. What I am after is a higher fidelity solution that
also goes beyond 'seasonality'. What do you think?

[1] https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:seasonal

Martijn van Exel
http://mvexel.github.io/

On Mon, Nov 28, 2016 at 11:01 AM, Bill Ricker  wrote:

>
>
> On Mon, Nov 28, 2016 at 12:52 PM, Martijn van Exel  wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> When mapping seasonal closures here in Utah[1] I realized I am still
>> missing a solid way to mark a road as closed for the season and then have
>> some level of confidence that someone will look at it in the spring and
>> 'reopen' it. More generally for someone to map a feature and somehow tag it
>> as needing another look by a certain date.
>>
>
> ​Seems to me that seasonal roads should have some sort of seasonal
> availability tag, similar to how a park gate might have dawn-to-dusk
> availability, so that a router (possibly using a Lambertus Garmin map) to
> get the right answer even if the download was not since the latest state
> change. (Yes, there are some parkways through parks that are usable through
> routes in daylight.)
>
>
>
> --
> Bill Ricker
> bill.n1...@gmail.com
> https://www.linkedin.com/in/n1vux
>
> ___
> Tagging mailing list
> Tagging@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
>
>
___
Tagging mailing list
Tagging@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging

Re: [Tagging] fixme -- by a specific date

[Michał Brzozowski]

remonty.openstreetmap.pl/remonty does exactly that for Poland. It's used
mainly by paid mappers from Yanosik who get info from their app. IIRC it
issues a note whenever an opening is due.

Michał

28.11.2016 18:54 "Martijn van Exel"  napisał(a):

> Hi,
>
> When mapping seasonal closures here in Utah[1] I realized I am still
> missing a solid way to mark a road as closed for the season and then have
> some level of confidence that someone will look at it in the spring and
> 'reopen' it. More generally for someone to map a feature and somehow tag it
> as needing another look by a certain date.
>
> I added a discussion section to the wiki[2] for the fixme tag where I
> propose adding the fixme:by qualifier to indicate the (approximate) date by
> which a mapper should look at the feature again.
>
> There should be more use cases for this. I can think of proposed or
> under-construction features for which you may know a projected start /
> finish date. Or semi-permanent features that you know will disappear at
> some point. I know HOT has interest in this kind of 'lifecycle' tagging as
> well.
>
> Martijn van Exel
> http://mvexel.github.io/
>
> [1] A lot of fairly major roads close here for the winter, typically
> between November and May: http://udottraffic.utah.gov/
> CLALertViewer.aspx?CLType=3
> [2] https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:Proposed_features/Key:fixme#
> Revisit_by_a_certain_date
>
> ___
> Tagging mailing list
> Tagging@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
>
>
___
Tagging mailing list
Tagging@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging

Re: [Tagging] fixme -- by a specific date

[Tod Fitch]

> On Nov 28, 2016, at 10:14 AM, Martijn van Exel  wrote:
> 
> Bill, 
> 
> The seasonal tag[1] already exists for very general 'seasonal availability' 
> of features.  This works for a very rough approximation of actual 
> availability which may be enough for some use cases. This could (should?) be 
> used as a fallback. What I am after is a higher fidelity solution that also 
> goes beyond 'seasonality'. What do you think?
> 
> [1] https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:seasonal 
> 
> 
> Martijn van Exel
> http://mvexel.github.io/ 
> On Mon, Nov 28, 2016 at 11:01 AM, Bill Ricker  > wrote:
> 
> 
> On Mon, Nov 28, 2016 at 12:52 PM, Martijn van Exel  > wrote:
> Hi, 
> 
> When mapping seasonal closures here in Utah[1] I realized I am still missing 
> a solid way to mark a road as closed for the season and then have some level 
> of confidence that someone will look at it in the spring and 'reopen' it. 
> More generally for someone to map a feature and somehow tag it as needing 
> another look by a certain date. 
>  
> ​Seems to me that seasonal roads should have some sort of seasonal 
> availability tag, similar to how a park gate might have dawn-to-dusk 
> availability, so that a router (possibly using a Lambertus Garmin map) to get 
> the right answer even if the download was not since the latest state change. 
> (Yes, there are some parkways through parks that are usable through routes in 
> daylight.)

A number of state highway routes through the Sierra Nevada are closed in 
winter. The rub is, the real closure is from first significant snowfall until 
it either melts or they bring in the rotary plows in spring.  This varies 
wildly from year to year. And with the current drought, there have been times 
when normally closed highways have remained open nearly all winter. The best 
source of status on this is the CalTrans website.

More local to where I currently am, there are county highways that are low on 
the plowing priority list and can be closed for significant amount of time 
until resources are available to clear the road. In the case I am thinking of, 
the county maintains a status page listing all closures and the reason for the 
closure.

Seems like there ought to be a way to tag the road with a link to the 
authoritative source for the status.

It would be nice if there were a standard set of APIs that those different 
authoritative sources had in common: Then it might be possible to add tagging 
that would allow a router to check the status. But at the moment all I am aware 
of is stuff designed to be read by a human not parsed by a machine.



___
Tagging mailing list
Tagging@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging

Re: [Tagging] fixme -- by a specific date

[John Willis]

Javbw
> On 29 Nov 2016, at 4:29 AM, Tod Fitch  wrote:
> 
> A number of state highway routes through the Sierra Nevada are closed in 
> winter. The rub is, the real closure is from first significant snowfall until 
> it either melts or they bring in the rotary plows in spring.  This varies 
> wildly from year to year

Same here in Japan. There *so many* mountain pass roads that close in winter  - 
the areas are not used for skiing so they close in winter or they have been 
bypassed by tunneled roads. 

Most of the main mountain roads have "road stations" (service areas on 
non-motorway roads) with big wooden topographical maps with little wood signs 
saying "open" or "closed" - which varies from road to road in the region. 

The old snowman ascii character (now a rendered emoji ☃ ) was put on the roads 
in navigational maps to warn that the road would be closed in winter. 

http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=12/36.1872/137.6005

The 158 (the windey bypassed section) and 24 (into Kamikochi) closes in the 
winter. ___
Tagging mailing list
Tagging@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging

Re: [Tagging] fixme -- by a specific date

[Bill Ricker]

On Mon, Nov 28, 2016 at 1:14 PM, Martijn van Exel  wrote:

> What I am after is a higher fidelity solution that also goes beyond
> 'seasonality'. What do you think?


​your proposal for a alarm-time on a fixme - for which a small bit of
programming could cause a Note to appear when due, and maybe drop an email
to the author of the fixme too ? - seems appropriate if the closure is
sufficiently indefinite ​that it needs to be ground-checked (or at least
press-release checked) that it has reopened on schedule (rather than being
late as construction often is). I can see that this is usually going to be
preferable to a change self-reverting on schedule !

​And i see access :
conditional =*
includes sunrise-sunset or vice versa . ( I wonder if the nearby parkways
are so tagged. Hmm. No.  note #799410 added. Since i only use that parkway
as a rushhour bypass in the summer, I'm not certain so won't armchair it
wrong! )​

Is there a gap betwixt fixme-with-alarm, seasonal=*, and access
:conditional
=* ​for which we
​_would_ want temporary closure to revert without a fresh survey and data
upload and without a fresh download to the renderer/router ?
​If so, we need to define the difference betwixt them.​
If not, your proposal just needs syntax (and proposals for tools to suport).


-- 
Bill Ricker
bill.n1...@gmail.com
https://www.linkedin.com/in/n1vux
___
Tagging mailing list
Tagging@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging

Re: [Tagging] fixme -- by a specific date

[Paul Johnson]

On Mon, Nov 28, 2016 at 12:01 PM, Bill Ricker  wrote:

>
>
> On Mon, Nov 28, 2016 at 12:52 PM, Martijn van Exel  wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> When mapping seasonal closures here in Utah[1] I realized I am still
>> missing a solid way to mark a road as closed for the season and then have
>> some level of confidence that someone will look at it in the spring and
>> 'reopen' it. More generally for someone to map a feature and somehow tag it
>> as needing another look by a certain date.
>>
>
> ​Seems to me that seasonal roads should have some sort of seasonal
> availability tag, similar to how a park gate might have dawn-to-dusk
> availability, so that a router (possibly using a Lambertus Garmin map) to
> get the right answer even if the download was not since the latest state
> change. (Yes, there are some parkways through parks that are usable through
> routes in daylight.)
>

This could be really handy.  Also needs some lane tagging as well, since
I'm aware of a street in Tulsa that is very reliably a fairground two
months a year, and thus the associated turn lanes going into it are closed
for two months a year as well.
___
Tagging mailing list
Tagging@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging

Re: [Tagging] fixme -- by a specific date

[Kevin Kenny]

On Mon, Nov 28, 2016 at 1:01 PM, Bill Ricker  wrote:

> ​Seems to me that seasonal roads should have some sort of seasonal
> availability tag, similar to how a park gate might have dawn-to-dusk
> availability, so that a router (possibly using a Lambertus Garmin map) to
> get the right answer even if the download was not since the latest state
> change. (Yes, there are some parkways through parks that are usable through
> routes in daylight.)
>
>
opening_hours=Apr 16 - Oct 31
opening_hours=dawnj - dusk

opening_hours as applied to a highway is uncommon so far, but a lot of work
was devoted to its specification:
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:opening_hours/specification
___
Tagging mailing list
Tagging@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging

Re: [Tagging] fixme -- by a specific date

[Bill Ricker]

On Tue, Dec 6, 2016 at 7:21 PM, Kevin Kenny 
wrote:

> On Mon, Nov 28, 2016 at 1:01 PM, Bill Ricker  wrote:
>
>> ​Seems to me that seasonal roads should have some sort of seasonal
>> availability tag, similar to how a park gate might have dawn-to-dusk
>> availability, so that a router (possibly using a Lambertus Garmin map) to
>> get the right answer even if the download was not since the latest state
>> change. (Yes, there are some parkways through parks that are usable through
>> routes in daylight.)
>>
>>
> opening_hours=Apr 16 - Oct 31
> opening_hours=dawn - dusk
>
> opening_hours as applied to a highway is uncommon so far, but a lot of
> work was devoted to its specification: http://wiki.
> openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:opening_hours/specification
>

Oh, it will work for seasonal? Great !

Re the dawn to disk parkways, i've added a NOTE - need to field check the
signage and gates to be sure of which segments. ​

(Guessing the router in my Garmin wouldn't notice anyway , but without
either live traffic data or an AVOID INTERSTATE setting no sane router
would choose that one ever. But when the sun is setting into I-93 drivers'
eyes at rush-hour, the wooded parkway is a major win for the few that know
it's there.)


-- 
Bill Ricker
bill.n1...@gmail.com
https://www.linkedin.com/in/n1vux
___
Tagging mailing list
Tagging@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging