Re: [Tagging] shop=window(s) incorrectly deprecated in favor of craft=window_construction ?
11 Jul 2019, 21:33 by geodes...@gmail.com: > > The obvious tag is > > shop=trade > > and > > trade= ??? ... > > The most obvious tagging scheme for a world wide database like OSM would be > to use the commercial classification system in effect in a particular > jurisdiction. > It is neither not obvious nor likely to be very useful. Existing classification may be useful during developing new tags, but separate tagging scheme for each jurisdiction for a global project is a poor idea. And in case of using common part/ conversion tables - how it differs from the current state?___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] shop=window(s) incorrectly deprecated in favor of craft=window_construction ?
On Thu, Jul 11, 2019 at 12:33:15PM -0700, Michael Patrick wrote: > > The obvious tag is > > shop=trade > > and > > trade= ??? ... > > The most obvious tagging scheme for a world wide database like OSM would be > to use the commercial classification system in effect in a particular > jurisdiction. I had not come across this sort of classification before. I see that there are "SIC" codes in the UK. They don't seem to cater for shops selling to both the trade and ordinary customers, but maybe I have not looked carefully. I would think that these sort of specialist tags might be useful in addition to more user-friendly tags like those at https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:shop%3Dtrade . Perhaps something along the lines of the fhrs:id tag used in the UK for food hygience: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/UK_Food_Hygiene_Rating_Scheme? Maybe naics:id = in USA, sic:id in UK, and so on? So they could be useful in addition to the trade=whatever when appropriate. ael ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] shop=window(s) incorrectly deprecated in favor of craft=window_construction ?
> The obvious tag is > shop=trade > and > trade= ??? ... The most obvious tagging scheme for a world wide database like OSM would be to use the commercial classification system in effect in a particular jurisdiction. In the U.S. that's NAICS, the U.K. has one, the EU and practically every country in the world has one or uses on of the broader ones. The U.N. has a very generic one. And there are published crosswalk tables and utilities between the different systems. They are all hierarchical, i.e. they have very very broad simple generic categories at the top ( 20 for NAICS ) but also allow one to drill down to the very, very specific - and the common search engines will provide the detailed label with a simple query like Googling "NAICS Code NAICS code bubble tea stand" gives "NAICS Code 722515 - Snack and Nonalcoholic Beverage Bars", '... establishments primarily engaged in (1) preparing and/or serving a specialty snack, such as ice cream, frozen yogurt, cookies, or popcorn, or (2) serving nonalcoholic beverages, such as coffee, juices, or sodas for consumption on or near the premises. These establishments may carry and sell a combination of snack, nonalcoholic beverage, and other related products (e.g., coffee beans, mugs, coffee makers) but generally promote and sell a unique snack or nonalcoholic beverage." with examples. They also provide links to alternative and related, more general, and more specific categories. Even if someone goofs a designation, the goof will usually still be very close to the actual one. Also, to some degree, usually the code(s) for a particular business is public record at the municipal, county, state/province, and national level, it's on their posted business license, it appears on a roll or listing somewhere. If the business is ad hoc or unlicensed, it's trivial to get the classification by looking up the code for a similar licensed business. It accommodates the very common situation where an establishment provides multiple levels, like manufactures cabinets from raw materials, ships them and distributes them wholesale regionally, and retails them over the counter to individuals from their showroom. The benefits to data providers and consumers are fairly obvious. Michael Patrick Data Ferret ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] shop=window(s) incorrectly deprecated in favor of craft=window_construction ?
sent from a phone > On 10. Jul 2019, at 01:17, Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com> wrote: > > Just as doors come in standard sizes, so too do windows. > > You can read the reasons why things come in standard sizes here > http://www.ausdesign.com.au/articles/article27.html the typical size of windows may vary according to the region, tradition and of course building structure. As I had hinted above, masonry construction leads to a grid of measures based on the individual brick size and joint width, because you would try to avoid cutting bricks. While you’re completely free in theory if constructing with concrete, there are standard sizes for formwork, and measurements tend to follow those based on masonry. With wood the distance of the structural beams will influence the window width, ceiling heights and building standards (safety, prevent people from falling out) as well as room depths generally determine the bottom and top quotes of windows. Of course there is also a lot of design consideration playing into the decision how to distribute the window area on the facade. > > Of course you can get non standard sized windows and doors.. but they cost > more. only for some kind and if you order few, for bigger constructions it does not matter much. Cheers, Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] shop=window(s) incorrectly deprecated in favor of craft=window_construction ?
On 10/07/19 06:27, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: sent from a phone On 9. Jul 2019, at 17:42, Tobias Zwick wrote: I always thought that there is no norm for standard sizes of windows there are standard sizes. In Germany the base grid measure for masonry is 12,5cm (based on one standard brick 24x11.5x7.1cm (Normalformat)), openings are +1cm. These are raw measures. Just as doors come in standard sizes, so too do windows. You can read the reasons why things come in standard sizes here http://www.ausdesign.com.au/articles/article27.html Of course you can get non standard sized windows and doors.. but they cost more. For firms supplying standard windows and there sizes see; https://www.sdmdoors.co.uk/what-are-standard-upvc-window-sizes/ http://www.dowell.com.au/products/windows.html https://www.stegbar.com.au/-/media/Files/Stegbar/Stegbar-Brochure-Downloads/Stegbar-Windows--Doors-Standard-Sizes-Brochure.pdf?as=1=333F8B610BB36D4C35EF16F583E3D99A0F6E0BBB and many more... ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] shop=window(s) incorrectly deprecated in favor of craft=window_construction ?
sent from a phone > On 9. Jul 2019, at 17:42, Tobias Zwick wrote: > > I always thought that there is no norm for standard sizes of windows there are standard sizes. In Germany the base grid measure for masonry is 12,5cm (based on one standard brick 24x11.5x7.1cm (Normalformat)), openings are +1cm. These are raw measures. It doesn’t mean you cannot get any dimensions of course, especially because many buildings are not made from masonry. Cheers, Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] shop=window(s) incorrectly deprecated in favor of craft=window_construction ?
On Tue, Jul 09, 2019 at 05:42:56PM +0200, Tobias Zwick wrote: > I always thought that there is no norm for standard sizes of windows, so > every window is made to measure. That's what several local companies do in my area of the UK. They cater mainly for the trade, but also for DIY. Pretty well every replacement window has to be made to measure. At least some of the companies cut and weld the frames on site. They buy in the premade sections I think. I believe it is common: there are similar companies in another area of the UK that I know well. The obvious tag is shop=trade and trade= ??? -- well, in my area I would probably use trade=double_glazing but something more general might be better since these places also supply UPV doors and the like, at least. ael ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] shop=window(s) incorrectly deprecated in favor of craft=window_construction ?
On Tue, Jul 9, 2019 at 12:04 PM Paul Allen wrote: > > On Tue, 9 Jul 2019 at 16:44, Tobias Zwick wrote: >> >> I always thought that there is no norm for standard sizes of windows, so >> every window is made to measure. (And in case of a larger construction >> project, then 1000s of windows are made with the same measure) >> Is this not true after all? > > > A housing estate may standardize on a particular size, but on a wider scale > there is no > standard (that I know of). > > However, it is increasingly common that windows are built in a factory > somewhere in the > middle of nowhere and orders for those windows are taken in shops in urban > centres. There > are still places in towns that cut glass, fashion frames and assemble > windows, but often it's > just a place that takes orders which they send off to the factory. In the US, most double-hung windows installed in the last few decades are factory-built. Most installers do not make to measure, but order factory-made windows to match the size. In my area, there are about seven or eight popular sizes in stock, and be able to special-order prefabricated windows to fit other sizes. Bespoke joinery for windows is nearly a thing of the past around here - windows are ordered from a company like Andersen or Pella. There's a much faster lead time if a builder confines himself to a reasonably small set of sizes. For instance, one dealer near me can supply double hung windows for immediate delivery, but only in standard widths of 24, 28, 32, and 36 inches for the rough opening, and standard heights 38, 46, 48, 54 and 62 inches. (It's not all combinations, either, for instance the ones with a 48-inch height are stocked only in 32 and 36 inch widths.) ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] shop=window(s) incorrectly deprecated in favor of craft=window_construction ?
On Tue, 9 Jul 2019 at 16:44, Tobias Zwick wrote: > I always thought that there is no norm for standard sizes of windows, so > every window is made to measure. (And in case of a larger construction > project, then 1000s of windows are made with the same measure) > Is this not true after all? > A housing estate may standardize on a particular size, but on a wider scale there is no standard (that I know of). However, it is increasingly common that windows are built in a factory somewhere in the middle of nowhere and orders for those windows are taken in shops in urban centres. There are still places in towns that cut glass, fashion frames and assemble windows, but often it's just a place that takes orders which they send off to the factory. -- Paul ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] shop=window(s) incorrectly deprecated in favor of craft=window_construction ?
I always thought that there is no norm for standard sizes of windows, so every window is made to measure. (And in case of a larger construction project, then 1000s of windows are made with the same measure) Is this not true after all? Tobias On July 9, 2019 4:54:59 PM GMT+02:00, ael via Tagging wrote: >On Tue, Jul 09, 2019 at 04:03:35PM +0200, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: >> >> like in only selling, not fitting/mounting them? Not offering to >replace the glass, etc.? Can you go there to buy a window, and take it >away, or will you order a window or maybe the whole facade which will >then be produced and delivered to you? >> >> While a shop like this may exist, I must admit I have never seen it. >Can you refer to a real example? > >Several in my area in UK. > >ael > > >___ >Tagging mailing list >Tagging@openstreetmap.org >https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] shop=window(s) incorrectly deprecated in favor of craft=window_construction ?
On Tue, Jul 09, 2019 at 04:03:35PM +0200, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: > > like in only selling, not fitting/mounting them? Not offering to replace the > glass, etc.? Can you go there to buy a window, and take it away, or will you > order a window or maybe the whole facade which will then be produced and > delivered to you? > > While a shop like this may exist, I must admit I have never seen it. Can you > refer to a real example? Several in my area in UK. ael ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] shop=window(s) incorrectly deprecated in favor of craft=window_construction ?
sent from a phone > On 9. Jul 2019, at 15:47, marc marc wrote: > > but howto tag a shop that sell windows build/made elsewhere ? like in only selling, not fitting/mounting them? Not offering to replace the glass, etc.? Can you go there to buy a window, and take it away, or will you order a window or maybe the whole facade which will then be produced and delivered to you? While a shop like this may exist, I must admit I have never seen it. Can you refer to a real example? Cheers, Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] shop=window(s) incorrectly deprecated in favor of craft=window_construction ?
On 09/07/2019 14:47, marc marc wrote: Hello, https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:shop%3Dwindow https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:shop%3Dwindows "deprecated. The recommended replacement is: tag:craft=window_construction" but howto tag a shop that sell windows build/made elsewhere ? iho craft is only for the place where something is build and therefore a shop=* is needed values that currently exit : window(s) glaziery windows_construction The relevant wiki change was https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Tag%3Ashop%3Dwindows=revision=1257210=1000370 . I'd start by asking the author of that change what discussion led them to think that the tag was discouraged / deprecated? There might be some - or there might not. Best Regards, Andy ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
[Tagging] shop=window(s) incorrectly deprecated in favor of craft=window_construction ?
Hello, https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:shop%3Dwindow https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:shop%3Dwindows "deprecated. The recommended replacement is: tag:craft=window_construction" but howto tag a shop that sell windows build/made elsewhere ? iho craft is only for the place where something is build and therefore a shop=* is needed values that currently exit : window(s) glaziery windows_construction Regards, Marc ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
