Re: [Tagging] tagging "loose" paving stones

[Yves via Tagging]

Out of curiosity, I looked the Web for wiggly pavement for drainage. Somme 
pavement have extra tips on the side for increased spacing. 
Apparently, as long as it's built on sand, the drainage is pretty good, no 
mention of a loose setup.
Maybe the politician is very good at his job? ;-)
Yves 

Le 21 février 2024 12:25:39 GMT+01:00, Anne-Karoline Distel via Tagging 
 a écrit :
>Hi,
>
>yes, I think paving_stones is right, but I'm fairly convinced that it
>was built wiggly on purpose, otherwise the politician wouldn't have had
>a special word for it. I couldn't find anything on wikipedia about the
>topic, unfortunately.
>
>Cycling across is not a problem, if you don't mind the sound. I don't
>think the whole width of the street is paved wiggly, just enough to let
>the water drain, so skaters could use it on the sides.
>
>I wasn't too concerned about the mapping for traffic users of the
>street, more for flood prevention analysis, but maybe that's just not
>within the scope yet.
>
>Anne
>
>On 21/02/2024 09:50, Mateusz Konieczny via Tagging wrote:
>> I also would go with surface=paving_stones - and maybe add also
>> smoothness tag,
>> and agree with Fernando
>> 
>> 
>> Feb 21, 2024, 01:47 by fernando.treb...@gmail.com:
>> 
>> I think they are surface=paving_stones because:
>> - the stones are very flat on top
>> - it seems that the objective was to arrange them snugly, although
>> the fit may have deteriorated a little
>> - it seems pretty easy to ride a bike there, but not skate, which
>> is what one generally expects from surface=paving_stones;
>> surface=sett is a little more difficult for cycling because the
>> stones are less flat and the surface as a whole is also less flat
>> 
>> I think surface=sett is usually more like this:
>> 
>> https://www.mapillary.com/app/?lat=53.345215550023994=-6.265817519990492=19.230259053537715=516305962724410=photo=0.5077006613416395=0.584942612357=0
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Sat, 17 Feb 2024 at 15:55, Anne-Karoline Distel via Tagging
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> That's the best I can do for now:
>> 
>> https://www.mapillary.com/app/?lat=52.65192667=-7.251596667=17=1685817985195902=photo=0.22772882642716127=0.968169011381621=0
>> 
>> 
>> You can kind of see the gaps between the stones.
>> 
>> On 17/02/2024 17:46, Åbn wrote:
>>> I think you should provide a picture.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On February 17, 2024 5:19:06 PM UTC, Anne-Karoline Distel via
>>> Tagging 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> I'm not sure I'm understanding the differences between
>>> surface=sett and surface=paved or if what I'm trying to
>>> map is covered by either. Where I live, there are some
>>> streets that are paved, but the stones aren't set firmly,
>>> so they wobble a bit when you drive/ cycle over them. It
>>> is perfectly safe, but it allows rainwater to drain
>>> quicker, at least I think that is the reason for this
>>> type of paving. It sounds a bit like a xylophone (well,
>>> lithophone, I guess), when going over them. Considering
>>> climate change and the higher likelihood of flooding etc,
>>> it would be important to map the difference between paved
>>> streets that don't allow for quick drainage and these
>>> loosely paved streets. There is probably some technical
>>> term for it. So, in short: Do we have a tagging scheme
>>> for those or not? Anne
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org
>>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
>>> 
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>> 
>> 
>> --
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>> 
>> 
>> 
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Re: [Tagging] tagging "loose" paving stones

[Anne-Karoline Distel via Tagging]

Hi,

yes, I think paving_stones is right, but I'm fairly convinced that it
was built wiggly on purpose, otherwise the politician wouldn't have had
a special word for it. I couldn't find anything on wikipedia about the
topic, unfortunately.

Cycling across is not a problem, if you don't mind the sound. I don't
think the whole width of the street is paved wiggly, just enough to let
the water drain, so skaters could use it on the sides.

I wasn't too concerned about the mapping for traffic users of the
street, more for flood prevention analysis, but maybe that's just not
within the scope yet.

Anne

On 21/02/2024 09:50, Mateusz Konieczny via Tagging wrote:

I also would go with surface=paving_stones - and maybe add also
smoothness tag,
and agree with Fernando


Feb 21, 2024, 01:47 by fernando.treb...@gmail.com:

I think they are surface=paving_stones because:
- the stones are very flat on top
- it seems that the objective was to arrange them snugly, although
the fit may have deteriorated a little
- it seems pretty easy to ride a bike there, but not skate, which
is what one generally expects from surface=paving_stones;
surface=sett is a little more difficult for cycling because the
stones are less flat and the surface as a whole is also less flat

I think surface=sett is usually more like this:

https://www.mapillary.com/app/?lat=53.345215550023994=-6.265817519990492=19.230259053537715=516305962724410=photo=0.5077006613416395=0.584942612357=0



On Sat, 17 Feb 2024 at 15:55, Anne-Karoline Distel via Tagging
 wrote:


That's the best I can do for now:

https://www.mapillary.com/app/?lat=52.65192667=-7.251596667=17=1685817985195902=photo=0.22772882642716127=0.968169011381621=0


You can kind of see the gaps between the stones.

On 17/02/2024 17:46, Åbn wrote:

I think you should provide a picture.


On February 17, 2024 5:19:06 PM UTC, Anne-Karoline Distel via
Tagging 
 wrote:

I'm not sure I'm understanding the differences between
surface=sett and surface=paved or if what I'm trying to
map is covered by either. Where I live, there are some
streets that are paved, but the stones aren't set firmly,
so they wobble a bit when you drive/ cycle over them. It
is perfectly safe, but it allows rainwater to drain
quicker, at least I think that is the reason for this
type of paving. It sounds a bit like a xylophone (well,
lithophone, I guess), when going over them. Considering
climate change and the higher likelihood of flooding etc,
it would be important to map the difference between paved
streets that don't allow for quick drainage and these
loosely paved streets. There is probably some technical
term for it. So, in short: Do we have a tagging scheme
for those or not? Anne


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Re: [Tagging] tagging "loose" paving stones

[Mateusz Konieczny via Tagging]

I also would go with surface=paving_stones - and maybe add also smoothness tag,
and agree with Fernando

Feb 21, 2024, 01:47 by fernando.treb...@gmail.com:

> I think they are surface=paving_stones because:
> - the stones are very flat on top
> - it seems that the objective was to arrange them snugly, although the fit 
> may have deteriorated a little
> - it seems pretty easy to ride a bike there, but not skate, which is what one 
> generally expects from surface=paving_stones; surface=sett is a little more 
> difficult for cycling because the stones are less flat and the surface as a 
> whole is also less flat
>
> I think surface=sett is usually more like this: > 
> https://www.mapillary.com/app/?lat=53.345215550023994=-6.265817519990492=19.230259053537715=516305962724410=photo=0.5077006613416395=0.584942612357=0
>
> On Sat, 17 Feb 2024 at 15:55, Anne-Karoline Distel via Tagging <> 
> tagging@openstreetmap.org> > wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> That's the best I can do for now: >> 
>> https://www.mapillary.com/app/?lat=52.65192667=-7.251596667=17=1685817985195902=photo=0.22772882642716127=0.968169011381621=0>>
>>   You can kind of see the gaps between the stones.
>>
>> On 17/02/2024 17:46, Åbn wrote:
>>
>>> I think you should provide a picture.
>>>
>>>
>>> On February 17, 2024 5:19:06 PM UTC,  Anne-Karoline Distel via 
>>> Tagging >>>  
>>> >>
 I'm not sure I'm understanding the differences between surface=sett 
 andsurface=paved or if what I'm trying to map is covered by either. Where 
 Ilive, there are some streets that are paved, but the stones aren't 
 setfirmly, so they wobble a bit when you drive/ cycle over them. It 
 isperfectly safe, but it allows rainwater to drain quicker, at least 
 Ithink that is the reason for this type of paving. It sounds a bit like 
 axylophone (well, lithophone, I guess), when going over them.Considering 
 climate change and the higher likelihood of flooding etc, itwould be 
 important to map the difference between paved streets thatdon't allow for 
 quick drainage and these loosely paved streets. There isprobably some 
 technical term for it.So, in short: Do we have a tagging scheme for those 
 or not?Anne
 Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org 
 https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging

>> ___
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>>  >> Tagging@openstreetmap.org
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>>
>
>
> --
> Fernando Trebien
>

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Re: [Tagging] tagging "loose" paving stones

[Fernando Trebien]

I think they are surface=paving_stones because:
- the stones are very flat on top
- it seems that the objective was to arrange them snugly, although the fit
may have deteriorated a little
- it seems pretty easy to ride a bike there, but not skate, which is what
one generally expects from surface=paving_stones; surface=sett is a little
more difficult for cycling because the stones are less flat and the surface
as a whole is also less flat

I think surface=sett is usually more like this:
https://www.mapillary.com/app/?lat=53.345215550023994=-6.265817519990492=19.230259053537715=516305962724410=photo=0.5077006613416395=0.584942612357=0

On Sat, 17 Feb 2024 at 15:55, Anne-Karoline Distel via Tagging <
tagging@openstreetmap.org> wrote:

> That's the best I can do for now:
> https://www.mapillary.com/app/?lat=52.65192667=-7.251596667=17=1685817985195902=photo=0.22772882642716127=0.968169011381621=0
> You can kind of see the gaps between the stones.
> On 17/02/2024 17:46, Åbn wrote:
>
> I think you should provide a picture.
>
>
> On February 17, 2024 5:19:06 PM UTC, Anne-Karoline Distel via Tagging
>   wrote:
>
>> I'm not sure I'm understanding the differences between surface=sett and
>> surface=paved or if what I'm trying to map is covered by either. Where I
>> live, there are some streets that are paved, but the stones aren't set
>> firmly, so they wobble a bit when you drive/ cycle over them. It is
>> perfectly safe, but it allows rainwater to drain quicker, at least I
>> think that is the reason for this type of paving. It sounds a bit like a
>> xylophone (well, lithophone, I guess), when going over them.
>>
>> Considering climate change and the higher likelihood of flooding etc, it
>> would be important to map the difference between paved streets that
>> don't allow for quick drainage and these loosely paved streets. There is
>> probably some technical term for it.
>>
>> So, in short: Do we have a tagging scheme for those or not?
>>
>>
>> Anne
>> --
>> Tagging mailing 
>> listTagging@openstreetmap.orghttps://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
>>
>> ___
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> Tagging@openstreetmap.org
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>


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Re: [Tagging] tagging "loose" paving stones

[Warin]

On 18/2/24 05:52, Anne-Karoline Distel via Tagging wrote:


Judging from those photographs, they would be material=sett, but the 
surface is not the same, as I said, the stones have some room to 
wiggle, there is no filler in between the stones.


On 17/02/2024 18:41, Yves via Tagging wrote:

Surface=Paved is generic.


+1


paved includes things like concrete, asphalt.


Unpaved is the opposite such as earth, dirt, sand.


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Re: [Tagging] tagging "loose" paving stones

[Volker Schmidt]

Sett around here looks very similar. It wiggles when I am on a bike, and
it's set in sand.

On Sun, 18 Feb 2024 at 00:35, Yves via Tagging 
wrote:

> Interesting, this could also be used to let water in the ground in order
> not to cause subsidence by drying out the underground. Maybe we shouldn't
> map the intent, but be more descriptive.
> Technically, it is possibly just sett, but loose?
> Yves
>
>
> Le 17 février 2024 22:59:08 GMT+01:00, Anne-Karoline Distel via Tagging <
> tagging@openstreetmap.org> a écrit :
>
>> I asked a local Green politician, and it's apparently called "subsidence
>> paving",  invented in earthquake zones in northern Italy.
>> On 17/02/2024 17:46, Åbn wrote:
>>
>> I think you should provide a picture.
>>
>>
>> On February 17, 2024 5:19:06 PM UTC, Anne-Karoline Distel via Tagging
>>   wrote:
>>
>>> I'm not sure I'm understanding the differences between surface=sett and
>>> surface=paved or if what I'm trying to map is covered by either. Where I
>>> live, there are some streets that are paved, but the stones aren't set
>>> firmly, so they wobble a bit when you drive/ cycle over them. It is
>>> perfectly safe, but it allows rainwater to drain quicker, at least I
>>> think that is the reason for this type of paving. It sounds a bit like a
>>> xylophone (well, lithophone, I guess), when going over them.
>>>
>>> Considering climate change and the higher likelihood of flooding etc, it
>>> would be important to map the difference between paved streets that
>>> don't allow for quick drainage and these loosely paved streets. There is
>>> probably some technical term for it.
>>>
>>> So, in short: Do we have a tagging scheme for those or not?
>>>
>>>
>>> Anne
>>> --
>>> Tagging mailing 
>>> listTagging@openstreetmap.orghttps://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
>>>
>>> ___
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Re: [Tagging] tagging "loose" paving stones

[Yves via Tagging]

Interesting, this could also be used to let water in the ground in order not to 
cause subsidence by drying out the underground. Maybe we shouldn't map the 
intent, but be more descriptive. 
Technically, it is possibly just sett, but loose? 
Yves 

Le 17 février 2024 22:59:08 GMT+01:00, Anne-Karoline Distel via Tagging 
 a écrit :
>I asked a local Green politician, and it's apparently called "subsidence
>paving",  invented in earthquake zones in northern Italy.
>
>On 17/02/2024 17:46, Åbn wrote:
>> I think you should provide a picture.
>> 
>> 
>> On February 17, 2024 5:19:06 PM UTC, Anne-Karoline Distel via Tagging
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> I'm not sure I'm understanding the differences between
>> surface=sett and surface=paved or if what I'm trying to map is
>> covered by either. Where I live, there are some streets that are
>> paved, but the stones aren't set firmly, so they wobble a bit when
>> you drive/ cycle over them. It is perfectly safe, but it allows
>> rainwater to drain quicker, at least I think that is the reason
>> for this type of paving. It sounds a bit like a xylophone (well,
>> lithophone, I guess), when going over them. Considering climate
>> change and the higher likelihood of flooding etc, it would be
>> important to map the difference between paved streets that don't
>> allow for quick drainage and these loosely paved streets. There is
>> probably some technical term for it. So, in short: Do we have a
>> tagging scheme for those or not? Anne
>> 
>> Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org
>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
>> 
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Re: [Tagging] tagging "loose" paving stones

[Anne-Karoline Distel via Tagging]

I asked a local Green politician, and it's apparently called "subsidence
paving",  invented in earthquake zones in northern Italy.

On 17/02/2024 17:46, Åbn wrote:

I think you should provide a picture.


On February 17, 2024 5:19:06 PM UTC, Anne-Karoline Distel via Tagging
 wrote:

I'm not sure I'm understanding the differences between
surface=sett and surface=paved or if what I'm trying to map is
covered by either. Where I live, there are some streets that are
paved, but the stones aren't set firmly, so they wobble a bit when
you drive/ cycle over them. It is perfectly safe, but it allows
rainwater to drain quicker, at least I think that is the reason
for this type of paving. It sounds a bit like a xylophone (well,
lithophone, I guess), when going over them. Considering climate
change and the higher likelihood of flooding etc, it would be
important to map the difference between paved streets that don't
allow for quick drainage and these loosely paved streets. There is
probably some technical term for it. So, in short: Do we have a
tagging scheme for those or not? Anne

Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging

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Re: [Tagging] tagging "loose" paving stones

[Anne-Karoline Distel via Tagging]

Judging from those photographs, they would be material=sett, but the
surface is not the same, as I said, the stones have some room to wiggle,
there is no filler in between the stones.

On 17/02/2024 18:41, Yves via Tagging wrote:

Surface=Paved is generic. Maybe you're talking about cobblestone?



Le 17 février 2024 18:19:06 GMT+01:00, Anne-Karoline Distel via
Tagging  a écrit :

I'm not sure I'm understanding the differences between
surface=sett and surface=paved or if what I'm trying to map is
covered by either. Where I live, there are some streets that are
paved, but the stones aren't set firmly, so they wobble a bit when
you drive/ cycle over them. It is perfectly safe, but it allows
rainwater to drain quicker, at least I think that is the reason
for this type of paving. It sounds a bit like a xylophone (well,
lithophone, I guess), when going over them. Considering climate
change and the higher likelihood of flooding etc, it would be
important to map the difference between paved streets that don't
allow for quick drainage and these loosely paved streets. There is
probably some technical term for it. So, in short: Do we have a
tagging scheme for those or not? Anne

Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging


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Re: [Tagging] tagging "loose" paving stones

[Anne-Karoline Distel via Tagging]

That's the best I can do for now:
https://www.mapillary.com/app/?lat=52.65192667=-7.251596667=17=1685817985195902=photo=0.22772882642716127=0.968169011381621=0
You can kind of see the gaps between the stones.

On 17/02/2024 17:46, Åbn wrote:

I think you should provide a picture.


On February 17, 2024 5:19:06 PM UTC, Anne-Karoline Distel via Tagging
 wrote:

I'm not sure I'm understanding the differences between
surface=sett and surface=paved or if what I'm trying to map is
covered by either. Where I live, there are some streets that are
paved, but the stones aren't set firmly, so they wobble a bit when
you drive/ cycle over them. It is perfectly safe, but it allows
rainwater to drain quicker, at least I think that is the reason
for this type of paving. It sounds a bit like a xylophone (well,
lithophone, I guess), when going over them. Considering climate
change and the higher likelihood of flooding etc, it would be
important to map the difference between paved streets that don't
allow for quick drainage and these loosely paved streets. There is
probably some technical term for it. So, in short: Do we have a
tagging scheme for those or not? Anne

Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging

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Re: [Tagging] tagging "loose" paving stones

[Yves via Tagging]

Surface=Paved is generic. Maybe you're talking about cobblestone?


Le 17 février 2024 18:19:06 GMT+01:00, Anne-Karoline Distel via Tagging 
 a écrit :
>I'm not sure I'm understanding the differences between surface=sett and
>surface=paved or if what I'm trying to map is covered by either. Where I
>live, there are some streets that are paved, but the stones aren't set
>firmly, so they wobble a bit when you drive/ cycle over them. It is
>perfectly safe, but it allows rainwater to drain quicker, at least I
>think that is the reason for this type of paving. It sounds a bit like a
>xylophone (well, lithophone, I guess), when going over them.
>
>Considering climate change and the higher likelihood of flooding etc, it
>would be important to map the difference between paved streets that
>don't allow for quick drainage and these loosely paved streets. There is
>probably some technical term for it.
>
>So, in short: Do we have a tagging scheme for those or not?
>
>
>Anne
>
>
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Re: [Tagging] tagging "loose" paving stones

[Åbn]

I think you should provide a picture.

On February 17, 2024 5:19:06 PM UTC, Anne-Karoline Distel via Tagging 
 wrote:
>I'm not sure I'm understanding the differences between surface=sett and
>surface=paved or if what I'm trying to map is covered by either. Where I
>live, there are some streets that are paved, but the stones aren't set
>firmly, so they wobble a bit when you drive/ cycle over them. It is
>perfectly safe, but it allows rainwater to drain quicker, at least I
>think that is the reason for this type of paving. It sounds a bit like a
>xylophone (well, lithophone, I guess), when going over them.
>
>Considering climate change and the higher likelihood of flooding etc, it
>would be important to map the difference between paved streets that
>don't allow for quick drainage and these loosely paved streets. There is
>probably some technical term for it.
>
>So, in short: Do we have a tagging scheme for those or not?
>
>
>Anne
>
>
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Re: [Tagging] tagging "loose" paving stones

[Åbn]

I think you should provide a picture

On February 17, 2024 5:19:06 PM UTC, Anne-Karoline Distel via Tagging 
 wrote:
>I'm not sure I'm understanding the differences between surface=sett and
>surface=paved or if what I'm trying to map is covered by either. Where I
>live, there are some streets that are paved, but the stones aren't set
>firmly, so they wobble a bit when you drive/ cycle over them. It is
>perfectly safe, but it allows rainwater to drain quicker, at least I
>think that is the reason for this type of paving. It sounds a bit like a
>xylophone (well, lithophone, I guess), when going over them.
>
>Considering climate change and the higher likelihood of flooding etc, it
>would be important to map the difference between paved streets that
>don't allow for quick drainage and these loosely paved streets. There is
>probably some technical term for it.
>
>So, in short: Do we have a tagging scheme for those or not?
>
>
>Anne
>
>
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[Tagging] tagging "loose" paving stones

[Anne-Karoline Distel via Tagging]

I'm not sure I'm understanding the differences between surface=sett and
surface=paved or if what I'm trying to map is covered by either. Where I
live, there are some streets that are paved, but the stones aren't set
firmly, so they wobble a bit when you drive/ cycle over them. It is
perfectly safe, but it allows rainwater to drain quicker, at least I
think that is the reason for this type of paving. It sounds a bit like a
xylophone (well, lithophone, I guess), when going over them.

Considering climate change and the higher likelihood of flooding etc, it
would be important to map the difference between paved streets that
don't allow for quick drainage and these loosely paved streets. There is
probably some technical term for it.

So, in short: Do we have a tagging scheme for those or not?


Anne


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