Re: [Tagging] How To Tag Coastlines That Are Also Cliffs?

[Erik Johansson]

On Fri, Apr 30, 2010 at 8:24 PM, Zeke Farwell  wrote:
> Hi,
>  I'm working on
> an area of coastline made up of cliffs and beaches.   There are many
> sections where the cliffs drop directly into the ocean and it seems logical
> to me that the coastline and the cliff should be represented as one single
> way where this is the case.

I've thought about it, adding the type of coastline would be very
useful when you don't want to do micromapping. But I've never done it,
on Rottnest Island I've instead used natural=rocks to tag areas with
cliffs/rocks.

http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=-32.0154&lon=115.50287&zoom=17&layers=B000FTTT

You could tag it as a barrier=cliff. :-)


-- 
/emj

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Re: [Tagging] How To Tag Coastlines That Are Also Cliffs?

[John F. Eldredge]

It seems to me that indicating whether or not the water's edge is a cliff would 
be useful.  For example, if you have small children, you probably wouldn't want 
to take them to a cliff-edge site.

-- 
John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com
"Reserve your right to think, for even to think wrongly is better than not to 
think at all." -- Hypatia of Alexandria

-Original Message-
From: Erik Johansson 
Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2010 23:30:25 
To: Tag discussion, strategy and related tools
Subject: Re: [Tagging] How To Tag Coastlines That Are Also Cliffs?

On Fri, Apr 30, 2010 at 8:24 PM, Zeke Farwell  wrote:
> Hi,
>  I'm working on
> an area of coastline made up of cliffs and beaches.   There are many
> sections where the cliffs drop directly into the ocean and it seems logical
> to me that the coastline and the cliff should be represented as one single
> way where this is the case.

I've thought about it, adding the type of coastline would be very
useful when you don't want to do micromapping. But I've never done it,
on Rottnest Island I've instead used natural=rocks to tag areas with
cliffs/rocks.

http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=-32.0154&lon=115.50287&zoom=17&layers=B000FTTT

You could tag it as a barrier=cliff. :-)


-- 
/emj

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Re: [Tagging] How To Tag Coastlines That Are Also Cliffs?

[Erik Johansson]

Well since the cliff is usually an area extending from the coast (at
least around here), maybe you don't need to tag the coastline but the
place where the cliff starts, as a separate way.

That said if you want to further define the  coastline way by adding a
type you will most likely have to invent you own tagging scheme since
tagging multiple values like natural=cliff;coastline is frowned
upon(?).

2010/5/1, John F. Eldredge :
> It seems to me that indicating whether or not the water's edge is a cliff
> would be useful.  For example, if you have small children, you probably
> wouldn't want to take them to a cliff-edge site.
>
> --
> John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com
> "Reserve your right to think, for even to think wrongly is better than not
> to think at all." -- Hypatia of Alexandria
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Erik Johansson 
> Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2010 23:30:25
> To: Tag discussion, strategy and related tools
> Subject: Re: [Tagging] How To Tag Coastlines That Are Also Cliffs?
>
> On Fri, Apr 30, 2010 at 8:24 PM, Zeke Farwell  wrote:
>> Hi,
>>  I'm working on
>> an area of coastline made up of cliffs and beaches.   There are many
>> sections where the cliffs drop directly into the ocean and it seems
>> logical
>> to me that the coastline and the cliff should be represented as one single
>> way where this is the case.
>
> I've thought about it, adding the type of coastline would be very
> useful when you don't want to do micromapping. But I've never done it,
> on Rottnest Island I've instead used natural=rocks to tag areas with
> cliffs/rocks.
>
> http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=-32.0154&lon=115.50287&zoom=17&layers=B000FTTT
>
> You could tag it as a barrier=cliff. :-)
>
>
> --
> /emj
>
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>

-- 
Skickat från min mobila enhet

/emj

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Re: [Tagging] How To Tag Coastlines That Are Also Cliffs?

[Emilie Laffray]

Nature=coastline
Cliff=yes
?

On 1 May 2010 09:24, "Erik Johansson"  wrote:

Well since the cliff is usually an area extending from the coast (at
least around here), maybe you don't need to tag the coastline but the
place where the cliff starts, as a separate way.

That said if you want to further define the  coastline way by adding a
type you will most likely have to invent you own tagging scheme since
tagging multiple values like natural=cliff;coastline is frowned
upon(?).

2010/5/1, John F. Eldredge :

> It seems to me that indicating whether or not the water's edge is a cliff
> would be useful. For ...
--
Skickat från min mobila enhet


/emj

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Re: [Tagging] How To Tag Coastlines That Are Also Cliffs?

[Chris Hill]

Zeke Farwell wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I'm newly subscribed to the tagging list so I apologize if this has 
> been discussed before.  Didn't find it in the archives though.  I'm 
> working on an area of coastline made up of cliffs and beaches 
> .
>  
>   There are many sections where the cliffs drop directly into the 
> ocean and it seems logical to me that the coastline and the cliff 
> should be represented as one single way where this is the case. 
Coastlines are at the mean high-water mark. This could be at a variety 
of types of surface: cliffs, beach, shingle, sea wall, mud and so on.  
The way tagging seem to be heading is to add extra modifying tags. So 
the natural=coastline could have an extra coastline=* tag. This could be 
something like

coastline=cliff
coastline=beach
coastline=shingle
coastline=sea_wall
coastline=mud
coastline=mangrove

This process allows renderers and other processors to continue using the 
natural=coastline tag as now, but later they may add rendering or 
processing for the extra coastline types. There may also be cliffs or 
sea walls inland of the mean high-water mark, but these are already 
catered for.

Cheers, Chris

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Re: [Tagging] How To Tag Coastlines That Are Also Cliffs?

[Zeke Farwell]

Thanks for all the ideas.  Definitely seems like natural=coastline;cliff is
a bad idea and may screw up coastline rendering.  Using a collection
relation seems like an overly complicated solution.  I think I'll use
  natural=coastline   coastline=cliff   as suggested by Chris.  That makes
the most sense to me.  Of course it won't render for now.  Hopefully one day
this or a slightly different tagging scheme will be rendered.

Zeke


On Sat, May 1, 2010 at 7:16 AM, Chris Hill  wrote:

> Zeke Farwell wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > I'm newly subscribed to the tagging list so I apologize if this has
> > been discussed before.  Didn't find it in the archives though.  I'm
> > working on an area of coastline made up of cliffs and beaches
> > <
> http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=36.94817&lon=-122.065787&zoom=18&layers=B000FTF
> >.
> >   There are many sections where the cliffs drop directly into the
> > ocean and it seems logical to me that the coastline and the cliff
> > should be represented as one single way where this is the case.
> Coastlines are at the mean high-water mark. This could be at a variety
> of types of surface: cliffs, beach, shingle, sea wall, mud and so on.
> The way tagging seem to be heading is to add extra modifying tags. So
> the natural=coastline could have an extra coastline=* tag. This could be
> something like
>
> coastline=cliff
> coastline=beach
> coastline=shingle
> coastline=sea_wall
> coastline=mud
> coastline=mangrove
>
> This process allows renderers and other processors to continue using the
> natural=coastline tag as now, but later they may add rendering or
> processing for the extra coastline types. There may also be cliffs or
> sea walls inland of the mean high-water mark, but these are already
> catered for.
>
> Cheers, Chris
>
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Re: [Tagging] How To Tag Coastlines That Are Also Cliffs?

[John Smith]

On 3 May 2010 00:59, Zeke Farwell  wrote:
> Thanks for all the ideas.  Definitely seems like natural=coastline;cliff is
> a bad idea and may screw up coastline rendering.  Using a collection
> relation seems like an overly complicated solution.  I think I'll use
>   natural=coastline   coastline=cliff   as suggested by Chris.  That makes
> the most sense to me.  Of course it won't render for now.  Hopefully one day
> this or a slightly different tagging scheme will be rendered.

Why not add a trac ticket and ask that these be rendered, getting
stuff rendered is motivation for some people.

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Re: [Tagging] How To Tag Coastlines That Are Also Cliffs?

[M∡rtin Koppenhoefer]

2010/5/2 Zeke Farwell :
> Thanks for all the ideas.  Definitely seems like natural=coastline;cliff is
> a bad idea and may screw up coastline rendering.


on the other hand use of separators on coastlines could push
integration of multiple feature values into the main tools (or maybe
by preprocessing -> for all data consuming applications). I'm not a
programmer but I think it would be very easy to duplicate a node/way
and separate 2 tags which are marked by a ;-separator before
continuing to process the data in a normal way. More complicated (and
zoom-dependant) it would be to generate auto-offsets -> could be done
individually with custom rules for it.

cheers,
Martin

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Re: [Tagging] How To Tag Coastlines That Are Also Cliffs?

[Emilie Laffray]

On 2 May 2010 16:27, M∡rtin Koppenhoefer  wrote:

> 2010/5/2 Zeke Farwell :
> > Thanks for all the ideas.  Definitely seems like natural=coastline;cliff
> is
> > a bad idea and may screw up coastline rendering.
>
>
> on the other hand use of separators on coastlines could push
> integration of multiple feature values into the main tools (or maybe
> by preprocessing -> for all data consuming applications). I'm not a
> programmer but I think it would be very easy to duplicate a node/way
> and separate 2 tags which are marked by a ;-separator before
> continuing to process the data in a normal way. More complicated (and
> zoom-dependant) it would be to generate auto-offsets -> could be done
> individually with custom rules for it.
>

Or it could make the life of those same programmers a perfect nightmare.
Keeping the key "clean" seems to me to be the best solution.

Emilie Laffray
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