Re: [Tails-dev] [tbb-dev] future of tor-launcher? - Firefox XPCOM / XUL based add-ons deprecation
Mark Smith: > On 1/10/17 5:27 AM, anonym wrote: >> Michael Carbone: >>> The move away from XUL could be an opportunity to address this by >>> building a more generic solution that could be used by the increasing >>> number of tor-powered applications/environments, such as onionshare, >>> ricochet, tails, qubes, subgraph, etc., in addition to tor browser and >>> tor messenger. > > We talked about this a little bit yesterday during our Tor Browser team > meeting on #tor-dev. > > The tight integration of Tor Launcher within the browser has been a big > win for both user experience and for maintenance of the launcher and > configuration code. Fully understood. > Our current plan for Tor Browser is to migrate Torbutton and Tor > Launcher to the WebExtensions APIs, extending and adding new APIs as > needed (and hopefully Mozilla will help us). See > https://trac.torproject.org/projects/tor/ticket/17248. Yeah, I've seen it. Like I said in the other sub-thread, this would still work for Tails if there was an option to emulate "standalone XUL application"-mode by simply suppressing the browser window. >> Indeed! In Tails we have a ticket and blueprint tracking something like >> this: >> >> https://labs.riseup.net/code/issues/10491 >> https://tails.boum.org/blueprint/network_connection/ >> >> Of course, our configuration tool would also include OS-level stuff, but >> I guess SubgraphOS/Qubes/Whonix would also be interested in that. At >> least it'd be nice if code could be shared (e.g. we can import the Tor >> configuration parts via a module and use the same in our application). >> Bonus if it's written in Python, building on the ecosystem of >> Tor-related project we already have there (primarily stem). >> >> I expect that some Tails people attending the Tor dev meeting in March >> might be interested in discussing this. > > I think it is definitely worthwhile to talk more about this. Let's do it then! > If code cannot be shared, at least UI designs can be. Absolutely! If it is not already stated as a goal that this new configuration tool would design the parts about Tor configuration the same way as Tor Launcher (or whatever) does for the vanilla Tor Browser. > It is also worth noting that Yawning created a new launcher/updater for > Linux as part of his Sandboxed Tor Browser Project (it uses go, Gtk+ 3, > and libnotify). > https://trac.torproject.org/projects/tor/wiki/doc/TorBrowser/Sandbox/Linux Interesting, but I wonder how much of this launcher that is about setting up the sandboxes -- my fear is that it simply is designed for something else than what we want. Any way, I haven't looked at it, I'm just speculating. :) However, the need for a standalone Tor Launcher-like application is not limited to Tails. Clearly Whonix wants one since Patrick started this topic, and I could see e.g. OnionShare, and non-mozilla bundles (that cannot use your WebExtension) wanting to use something like that. It feels a bit odd to me if they would depend on e.g. Tor Browser, which currently is the case for e.g. OnionShare. Cheers! ___ Tails-dev mailing list Tails-dev@boum.org https://mailman.boum.org/listinfo/tails-dev To unsubscribe from this list, send an empty email to tails-dev-unsubscr...@boum.org.
Re: [Tails-dev] [tbb-dev] future of tor-launcher? - Firefox XPCOM / XUL based add-ons deprecation
anonym: > Mark Smith: >> I don't expect WebExtensions to support a standalone app mode, although >> for your purposes it might be acceptable to start the browser with >> TOR_CONFIGURE_ONLY=1. I guess there are some differences in terms of how >> much Firefox code is executed as well as loss of a custom icon though. > > I wasn't aware of that option, but it sounds promising. Thanks! Wait a minute, *I* implemented this option! :S Indeed, we use it in Tails currently since we want Tor Launcher to only configure the already running system tor instance, (i.e. just skip the "start tor" step). My understanding is that with this option set, when Tor Launcher is run as a browser extension, the browser would still start, which is what we don't want. Am I misunderstanding what you meant here? It seems like your impression is that setting that option would prevent the browser from starting, achieving something similar to a "XUL standalone application". That said, if the Tor Launcher WebExtension would have such an option (in addition to TOR_CONFIGURE_ONLY), possibly by just hiding the browser window, that would be good enough for Tails. It would be interesting to know if you (or Kathy, who is investigating Tor ticket #17248) think such an option would be possible. Cheers! ___ Tails-dev mailing list Tails-dev@boum.org https://mailman.boum.org/listinfo/tails-dev To unsubscribe from this list, send an empty email to tails-dev-unsubscr...@boum.org.
Re: [Tails-dev] [tbb-dev] future of tor-launcher? - Firefox XPCOM / XUL based add-ons deprecation
On 1/10/17 5:27 AM, anonym wrote: > Michael Carbone: >> The move away from XUL could be an opportunity to address this by >> building a more generic solution that could be used by the increasing >> number of tor-powered applications/environments, such as onionshare, >> ricochet, tails, qubes, subgraph, etc., in addition to tor browser and >> tor messenger. We talked about this a little bit yesterday during our Tor Browser team meeting on #tor-dev. The tight integration of Tor Launcher within the browser has been a big win for both user experience and for maintenance of the launcher and configuration code. Our current plan for Tor Browser is to migrate Torbutton and Tor Launcher to the WebExtensions APIs, extending and adding new APIs as needed (and hopefully Mozilla will help us). See https://trac.torproject.org/projects/tor/ticket/17248. > Indeed! In Tails we have a ticket and blueprint tracking something like > this: > > https://labs.riseup.net/code/issues/10491 > https://tails.boum.org/blueprint/network_connection/ > > Of course, our configuration tool would also include OS-level stuff, but > I guess SubgraphOS/Qubes/Whonix would also be interested in that. At > least it'd be nice if code could be shared (e.g. we can import the Tor > configuration parts via a module and use the same in our application). > Bonus if it's written in Python, building on the ecosystem of > Tor-related project we already have there (primarily stem). > > I expect that some Tails people attending the Tor dev meeting in March > might be interested in discussing this. I think it is definitely worthwhile to talk more about this. If code cannot be shared, at least UI designs can be. It is also worth noting that Yawning created a new launcher/updater for Linux as part of his Sandboxed Tor Browser Project (it uses go, Gtk+ 3, and libnotify). https://trac.torproject.org/projects/tor/wiki/doc/TorBrowser/Sandbox/Linux -- Mark Smith Pearl Crescent http://pearlcrescent.com/ signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ Tails-dev mailing list Tails-dev@boum.org https://mailman.boum.org/listinfo/tails-dev To unsubscribe from this list, send an empty email to tails-dev-unsubscr...@boum.org.
Re: [Tails-dev] [tbb-dev] future of tor-launcher? - Firefox XPCOM / XUL based add-ons deprecation
Mark Smith: > On 1/10/17 5:18 AM, anonym wrote: >> In Tails we run Tor Launcher as a stand-alone XUL application. Last I >> checked it was not clear whether this would still be supported by >> Firefox + WebExtensions. Do you know anything more about this? > > Unfortunately, I do not know anything about Mozilla's plans in regard to > standalone XUL applications. Currently Tails is using the firefox -app > feature, correct? Correct! > In the long run, I expect Mozilla to stop using XUL entirely and to > migrate to HTML-based UI even inside Firefox. Although it will take them > a long time to make that transition, I could see them dropping support > for standalone XUL applications relatively soon. Yes, that is my fear as well. > I don't expect WebExtensions to support a standalone app mode, although > for your purposes it might be acceptable to start the browser with > TOR_CONFIGURE_ONLY=1. I guess there are some differences in terms of how > much Firefox code is executed as well as loss of a custom icon though. I wasn't aware of that option, but it sounds promising. Thanks! Cheers! ___ Tails-dev mailing list Tails-dev@boum.org https://mailman.boum.org/listinfo/tails-dev To unsubscribe from this list, send an empty email to tails-dev-unsubscr...@boum.org.
Re: [Tails-dev] [tbb-dev] future of tor-launcher? - Firefox XPCOM / XUL based add-ons deprecation
On 1/10/17 5:18 AM, anonym wrote: > In Tails we run Tor Launcher as a stand-alone XUL application. Last I > checked it was not clear whether this would still be supported by > Firefox + WebExtensions. Do you know anything more about this? Unfortunately, I do not know anything about Mozilla's plans in regard to standalone XUL applications. Currently Tails is using the firefox -app feature, correct? In the long run, I expect Mozilla to stop using XUL entirely and to migrate to HTML-based UI even inside Firefox. Although it will take them a long time to make that transition, I could see them dropping support for standalone XUL applications relatively soon. I don't expect WebExtensions to support a standalone app mode, although for your purposes it might be acceptable to start the browser with TOR_CONFIGURE_ONLY=1. I guess there are some differences in terms of how much Firefox code is executed as well as loss of a custom icon though. -- Mark Smith Pearl Crescent http://pearlcrescent.com/ signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ Tails-dev mailing list Tails-dev@boum.org https://mailman.boum.org/listinfo/tails-dev To unsubscribe from this list, send an empty email to tails-dev-unsubscr...@boum.org.
Re: [Tails-dev] [tbb-dev] future of tor-launcher? - Firefox XPCOM / XUL based add-ons deprecation
Michael Carbone: > The move away from XUL could be an opportunity to address this by > building a more generic solution that could be used by the increasing > number of tor-powered applications/environments, such as onionshare, > ricochet, tails, qubes, subgraph, etc., in addition to tor browser and > tor messenger. Indeed! In Tails we have a ticket and blueprint tracking something like this: https://labs.riseup.net/code/issues/10491 https://tails.boum.org/blueprint/network_connection/ Of course, our configuration tool would also include OS-level stuff, but I guess SubgraphOS/Qubes/Whonix would also be interested in that. At least it'd be nice if code could be shared (e.g. we can import the Tor configuration parts via a module and use the same in our application). Bonus if it's written in Python, building on the ecosystem of Tor-related project we already have there (primarily stem). I expect that some Tails people attending the Tor dev meeting in March might be interested in discussing this. Cheers! ___ Tails-dev mailing list Tails-dev@boum.org https://mailman.boum.org/listinfo/tails-dev To unsubscribe from this list, send an empty email to tails-dev-unsubscr...@boum.org.
Re: [Tails-dev] [tbb-dev] future of tor-launcher? - Firefox XPCOM / XUL based add-ons deprecation
Georg Koppen: > Patrick Schleizer: >> Hi, >> >> XPCOM / XUL based add-ons will be deprecated in Firefox. [1] >> >> I've searched trac, mailing list, irc logs... I know you are aware of >> that, but haven't found your plan forward. Is there already one? >> >> What are your plans regarding tor-launcher? Will tor-launcher be ported >> over as Firefox WebExtension? Is that even possible? > > We investigated what we would need for porting the extensions over to > Webextensions a while ago in > https://trac.torproject.org/projects/tor/ticket/17248. > > The current plan has not changed: we still plan to port our extensions > over to the Webextensions framework. It might need some upstream changes > which we would provide with own patches but we'll see. In Tails we run Tor Launcher as a stand-alone XUL application. Last I checked it was not clear whether this would still be supported by Firefox + WebExtensions. Do you know anything more about this? Cheers! ___ Tails-dev mailing list Tails-dev@boum.org https://mailman.boum.org/listinfo/tails-dev To unsubscribe from this list, send an empty email to tails-dev-unsubscr...@boum.org.
