Re: [GTALUG] Advice -- Building Debian 8 PC To Replace Win XP PC;

[Howard Gibson via talk]

On Mon, 25 Jul 2016 11:49:41 -0400
Giles Orr via talk  wrote:
> 
> My suggestions:
> - build it yourself.  If you're comfortable mucking around inside a
> PC, you already have the skills.  From my first build I think the only
> thing that got somewhat alarming was having to get and apply thermal
> paste to the main processor, and getting the clips on the processor in
> place.  It's a very good way to get to know the PC, and you'll do a
> better build than any paid tech because it's _yours_.
> - if you really need the dial-up modem, install it (although I suspect
> Linux support is poor - check it thoroughly).  Otherwise, don't bother
> with it.
> - you didn't mention a video card.  If the motherboard has one onboard
> and you're planning to use that, the power supply sounds like overkill
> (even given the later addition of SCSI stuff ... which I'd suggest
> avoiding if you can, it's another justifiably dying breed like the
> modem).  Buy a smaller capacity (500W?) and better power supply ...
> although I admit I'm going on years-old memories, EVGA wasn't one of
> the best suppliers "back in the day".  Something for you to research a
> bit more perhaps.
> - BluRay support on Linux is ... limited.  You can probably use it for
> backup, but you won't be able to play back commercial movies.  You
> might use it under Windows.
> - go with 16G of memory if you can afford it: it's not critical, but
> you'll probably enjoy it - and it will help a lot with running VMs.
> But it's also the easiest thing to upgrade later.

Giles,

   I have a BluRay burner here.  It did not play my Game of Thrones BluRay 
disk.  It does an excellent job of backups.  The BluRay disks are cheap.  When 
I replaced my motherboard, the new AMD processor had the thermal paste on it.  
I just installed the thing as per the instructions.  

-- 
Howard Gibson 
hgib...@eol.ca
howard.gib...@teledyneoptech.com 
jhowardgib...@gmail.com
http://home.eol.ca/~hgibson
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Re: [GTALUG] Advice -- Building Debian 8 PC To Replace Win XP PC;

[Loui Chang via talk]

On Mon 25 Jul 2016 18:15 -0400, Russell Reiter via talk wrote:
> Sent from mobile.

What model?

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Re: [GTALUG] Advice -- Building Debian 8 PC To Replace Win XP PC;

[Loui Chang via talk]

On Mon 25 Jul 2016 16:07 -0400, Lennart Sorensen via talk wrote:
> On Mon, Jul 25, 2016 at 11:15:36AM -0500, o1bigtenor via talk wrote:
> > On Mon, Jul 25, 2016 at 9:47 AM, Steve Petrie, P.Eng. via talk
> > > Dialup Modem   US Robotics USR5638 56K* V.92, internal dial-up 
> > > faxmodem
> > > card, (PCIe) PCI Express x1;
> > 
> > Not sure how well this will work in a *nix system - - - would need to
> > verify that drivers are available!!!
> 
> They are not, and most likely never will be.

Perhaps for a modest price?
http://www.linuxant.com/drivers/
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Re: [GTALUG] Advice -- Building Debian 8 PC To Replace Win XP PC;

[Peter Hiscocks via talk]

>> * A-1 Surplus out in the wilds of Etobicoke is a vast cavern of *stuff*.
>> I'm told that patient browsing rewards with some excellent finds*.
>>
>> If you plan ahead and have a few weeks before a build, you can buy
>> selection boxes of hardware on eBay from Hong Kong, and they'll arrive
>> in a few weeks. I am never organized enough to do this.
>>
>>  Stewart
>>
>> *: I'm still trying to round up a trip out to A-1 soon. Have vehicle,
>> can travel, will be spending a couple of hours browsing the chip racks
>> looking for cooler hardware than the speech synths I found last time.

I visited A1 surplus some months ago and they sure have a lot of stuff, I
didn't see anything very exciting. It struck me as a bit pricey, too.

Above All however has some useful stuff.

P.



-- 
Peter Hiscocks
Syscomp Electronic Design Limited, Toronto
http://www.syscompdesign.com
USB Oscilloscope and Waveform Generator
647-839-0325

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Re: [GTALUG] Advice -- Building Debian 8 PC To Replace Win XP PC;

[Russell Reiter via talk]

> * Above All surplus on Bloor near Euclid (Steve has some very
> vintage/niche bits indeed. His phone is disconnected, so don't try
calling)

Thanks, thats good to know. I had tried calling and assumed they had closed.

This was my goto place for refurbished 20/30/40mb Fujitsu drives. Fujitsu
had a lot of those drives returned because FAT systems reported too many
bad sectors. I never had a problem using ext on Linux systems, they
reported the correct sizes and worked fine.

In the 90's I use to overclock old boards and would toast stuff regularly.
I was always dashing in and asking for some odd widget. Often they had it,
or a reasonable facsimile.

>
> * A-1 Surplus out in the wilds of Etobicoke is a vast cavern of *stuff*.
> I'm told that patient browsing rewards with some excellent finds*.
>
> If you plan ahead and have a few weeks before a build, you can buy
> selection boxes of hardware on eBay from Hong Kong, and they'll arrive
> in a few weeks. I am never organized enough to do this.
>
>  Stewart
>
> *: I'm still trying to round up a trip out to A-1 soon. Have vehicle,
> can travel, will be spending a couple of hours browsing the chip racks
> looking for cooler hardware than the speech synths I found last time.

>
> cheers,
>  Stewart
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> https://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk

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Re: [GTALUG] Advice -- Building Debian 8 PC To Replace Win XP PC;

[Stewart C. Russell via talk]

On 2016-07-25 03:34 PM, Russell Reiter via talk wrote:
> 
> active surplus …
> 
> I have yet to find another place with such a comprehensive stock of the
> little odds and ends someone night need.

True enough, but Graham (the former manager of Active Surplus) plus the
skilled facilitators of Little Dada are trying to find space for a
relaunch. More details here: OGP ("Operation Gorilla Phoenix")
Electronics & Surplus 

Other places that might have the little bits like standoffs:

* the elecronics place in the basement of the College Home Hardware,
near Spadina

* Above All surplus on Bloor near Euclid (Steve has some very
vintage/niche bits indeed. His phone is disconnected, so don't try calling)

* A-1 Surplus out in the wilds of Etobicoke is a vast cavern of *stuff*.
I'm told that patient browsing rewards with some excellent finds*.

If you plan ahead and have a few weeks before a build, you can buy
selection boxes of hardware on eBay from Hong Kong, and they'll arrive
in a few weeks. I am never organized enough to do this.

 Stewart

*: I'm still trying to round up a trip out to A-1 soon. Have vehicle,
can travel, will be spending a couple of hours browsing the chip racks
looking for cooler hardware than the speech synths I found last time.

cheers,
 Stewart
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Re: [GTALUG] Advice -- Building Debian 8 PC To Replace Win XP PC;

[Lennart Sorensen via talk]

On Mon, Jul 25, 2016 at 11:15:36AM -0500, o1bigtenor via talk wrote:
> On Mon, Jul 25, 2016 at 9:47 AM, Steve Petrie, P.Eng. via talk
> > Dialup Modem   US Robotics USR5638 56K* V.92, internal dial-up faxmodem
> > card,
> >  (PCIe) PCI Express x1;
> 
> Not sure how well this will work in a *nix system - - - would need to
> verify that
> drivers are available!!!

They are not, and most likely never will be.

-- 
Len Sorensen
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Re: [GTALUG] Advice -- Building Debian 8 PC To Replace Win XP PC;

[Russell Reiter via talk]

On Jul 25, 2016 10:50 AM, "Steve Petrie, P.Eng. via talk" 
wrote:
>
> Warm Greetings To GTALUG,
>
> Please forgive the long email. -- have to provide some background.
>
> BACKGROUND --  BUILDING DEBIAN 8 PC TO REPLACE WIN XP PC
>

I usually have a couple of pieces of advise for home builds and integration.

Unfortunately the first piece is no longer relevant.  That was was go to
active surplus and purchase a variety of items. Board standoffs, plastic
washers and odd screws and ties. However they have closed both locations
and it doesn't look like there is a comeback in the works.

I have yet to find another place with such a comprehensive stock of the
little odds and ends someone night need.

The other is to have a build buddy, someone to bounce things around with
when there is an unexpected problem.

I do have this suggestion tho. Make friends with Hacklab.

I haven't visited the facility so I don't know if they have storage for a
build which may last longer than one day.

Also I have no idea of the fee structure to use the space, but there are
others on the list with more in-depth knowledge than I.

Scott Sullivan perhaps?

HTH
Russell


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Re: [GTALUG] Advice -- Building Debian 8 PC To Replace Win XP PC;

[Giles Orr via talk]

On 25 July 2016 at 12:18, o1bigtenor  wrote:
> On Mon, Jul 25, 2016 at 10:49 AM, Giles Orr via talk  wrote:
>> On 25 July 2016 at 10:47, Steve Petrie, P.Eng. via talk  
>> wrote:
>> - BluRay support on Linux is ... limited.  You can probably use it for
>> backup, but you won't be able to play back commercial movies.  You
>> might use it under Windows.
>
> Well - - - I've never tried to watch a movie I just use mine for burning and
> reading CD roms, DVD roms and Blueray roms so there is some support!

My assumption (perhaps incorrect) is that most people see "BluRay" and
think "I can play movies."  I should perhaps have been clearer: BluRay
support in Linux appears to be pretty good so long as you're not
dealing with DRM, at which point it becomes pretty much non-existent.

-- 
Giles
http://www.gilesorr.com/
giles...@gmail.com
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Re: [GTALUG] Advice -- Building Debian 8 PC To Replace Win XP PC;

[Giles Orr via talk]

On 25 July 2016 at 10:47, Steve Petrie, P.Eng. via talk  wrote:
> Warm Greetings To GTALUG,
>
> Please forgive the long email. -- have to provide some background.
>
> BACKGROUND --  BUILDING DEBIAN 8 PC TO REPLACE WIN XP PC
>
> I'm working to replace an old Dell Windows XP SP3 PC with a new PC, booting
> Debian Linux 8 as the primary OS, with Win 7 set up to run under QEMU / KVM
> vbirtualization under Debian. A multi-boot setup will allow booting Windows
> 7 (OEM) on bare metal, if required for occasional use.  I definitely am NOT
> going to use MS Windows as the primary OS in my new desktop PC !!
>
> I have almost no Linux / Unix experience. Some years ago doing application
> programming on IBM AIX / Korn shell and now for personal and business uses,
> getting into Debian Linux (and DragonFlyBSD) on cloud-hosted QEMU / KVM
> virtualization servers. However I do have a strong IT background. (I'm a
> "retired" software engineer).
>
> On 7 January 2016 I sent an inquiry email to h...@gtalug.org and Myles
> Braithwaite responded instantly with helpfull suggestions for which I was
> very grateful. Myles also encouraged to join the talk@gtalug.org mailing
> list and so now here I am.
>
> I'm looking for advice from GTALUG members on two issues:
>
> 1. Comments on my proposed PC configuration. I have already researched
> components and developed a detailed hardware configuration for the new PC.
> Please see below. This configuration is not yet published on
> ca.partpicker.com.
>
> 2. Advice on how to get the PC built from components, that I will purchase
> retail and supply to the builder. Here, one option I propose is for a
> "creative" solution from GTALUG (see point 3, next section).
>
> * * *
> * * *
>
> HOW TO BUILD THE NEW DEBIAN 8 PC ?
>
> It seems to me that there are three approaches I could take, to get this new
> PC built:
>
> 1. BUILD IT MYSELF. I can handle purchasing all the components. However,
> although I am comfortable messing around inside the case of a computer, I've
> never build one from components. I would prefer to have the PC assembled by
> more experienced hands that have the skills and use of the right tools. So
> building myself is a last resort.
>
> 2. USE A COMMERCIAL PC SYSTEM BUILDER. Any suggestions from mailing list
> participants, on commercial PC builders would be gratefully received.
> However, I do not want to have to deal with import hassles, so the builder
> must be operating in Canada.(preferably in the GTA)
>
> Problem: It seems it will be difficult to interest commercial PC bulders in
> Canada to supply a competitively-priced PC configured with Linux. So if I
> use a commercial builder, the plan would be to get the PC built and
> delivered with with Windows 7 only installed, but have a multi-boot setup.
> After I get the PC I will install Debian 8 Linux as the primary host
> operating system, and then install Win 7 to run under QEMU / KVM
> virtualization under Debian.
>
> 3. *** CREATIVE IDEA FOR GTALUG *** Perhaps there is a member (or members)
> of GTALUG who would be able to build the PC from comnponents I supply.
> Naturally I would be happy to pay a fee for this service Or (and this would
> be my preference) perhaps GTALUG would be interested in taking on the buuild
> project as a club project. I expect I would be much more happy to pay money
> to GTALUG for helping with the build, and to get the pleasure of working
> with GTALUG, than I would be paying and dealing with a commercial builder.
> Since I live in Oakville in a small apartment, it would make more sense for
> the build to happen in Toronto.
>
> From my casual research, there are many Win XP "orphans" like me out  there.
> Not only older-type people stuck on Win XP and wondering what to do before
> their old PC dies. But also there are plenty of small  businesses still
> running XP (in fact there are probably more small business XP  users left,
> than consumer XP users).
>
> You could consider me in a sense, a "poster senior" for a class of people,
> among whom some could possibly go the Linux route as they migrate away from
> Win XP. If only these poster seniors (or small business Win XP "orphans")
> had a helping hand from e.g. GTALUG. For example, run a kind of GTALUG
> "clinic" that Win XP "orphans" could come to (for a fee) and there work with
> GTALUG members to get their Linux PC built. And later get their data (e.g.
> emails) converted over to e.g. Thunderbird.
>
> Just a thought,  for a way that GTALUG could get more involved with the
> wider community. And perhaps also pull in some club revenue to support
> GTALUG initiatives. Perhsps this is an idea the GTALUG Board could consider.
> I am happy to discuss the idea of being the "guinea pig" for such a project.
>
> * * *
> * * *
>
> PROPOSED PC CONFIGURATION
>
> Thsi is decidedly NOT a gamer's PC. It is intended to be an ultra-reliable,
> powerful, fast professional / small business workstation . There is no
> overclocking. 

[GTALUG] Advice -- Building Debian 8 PC To Replace Win XP PC;

[Steve Petrie, P.Eng. via talk]

Warm Greetings To GTALUG,

Please forgive the long email. -- have to provide some background.

BACKGROUND --  BUILDING DEBIAN 8 PC TO REPLACE WIN XP PC

I'm working to replace an old Dell Windows XP SP3 PC with a new PC, booting 
Debian Linux 8 as the primary OS, with Win 7 set up to run under QEMU / KVM 
vbirtualization under Debian. A multi-boot setup will allow booting Windows 7 
(OEM) on bare metal, if required for occasional use.  I definitely am NOT going 
to use MS Windows as the primary OS in my new desktop PC !!

I have almost no Linux / Unix experience. Some years ago doing application 
programming on IBM AIX / Korn shell and now for personal and business uses, 
getting into Debian Linux (and DragonFlyBSD) on cloud-hosted QEMU / KVM 
virtualization servers. However I do have a strong IT background. (I'm a 
"retired" software engineer).

On 7 January 2016 I sent an inquiry email to h...@gtalug.org and Myles 
Braithwaite responded instantly with helpfull suggestions for which I was very 
grateful. Myles also encouraged to join the talk@gtalug.org mailing list and so 
now here I am.

I'm looking for advice from GTALUG members on two issues:

1. Comments on my proposed PC configuration. I have already researched 
components and developed a detailed hardware configuration for the new PC. 
Please see below. This configuration is not yet published on ca.partpicker.com.

2. Advice on how to get the PC built from components, that I will purchase 
retail and supply to the builder. Here, one option I propose is for a 
"creative" solution from GTALUG (see point 3, next section).

* * *
* * *

HOW TO BUILD THE NEW DEBIAN 8 PC ?

It seems to me that there are three approaches I could take, to get this new PC 
built:

1. BUILD IT MYSELF. I can handle purchasing all the components. However, 
although I am comfortable messing around inside the case of a computer, I've 
never build one from components. I would prefer to have the PC assembled by 
more experienced hands that have the skills and use of the right tools. So 
building myself is a last resort.

2. USE A COMMERCIAL PC SYSTEM BUILDER. Any suggestions from mailing list 
participants, on commercial PC builders would be gratefully received. However, 
I do not want to have to deal with import hassles, so the builder must be 
operating in Canada.(preferably in the GTA)

Problem: It seems it will be difficult to interest commercial PC bulders in 
Canada to supply a competitively-priced PC configured with Linux. So if I use a 
commercial builder, the plan would be to get the PC built and delivered with 
with Windows 7 only installed, but have a multi-boot setup. After I get the PC 
I will install Debian 8 Linux as the primary host operating system, and then 
install Win 7 to run under QEMU / KVM virtualization under Debian.

3. *** CREATIVE IDEA FOR GTALUG *** Perhaps there is a member (or members) of 
GTALUG who would be able to build the PC from comnponents I supply. Naturally I 
would be happy to pay a fee for this service Or (and this would be my 
preference) perhaps GTALUG would be interested in taking on the buuild project 
as a club project. I expect I would be much more happy to pay money to GTALUG 
for helping with the build, and to get the pleasure of working with GTALUG, 
than I would be paying and dealing with a commercial builder. Since I live in 
Oakville in a small apartment, it would make more sense for the build to happen 
in Toronto.

>From my casual research, there are many Win XP "orphans" like me out  there. 
>Not only older-type people stuck on Win XP and wondering what to do before 
>their old PC dies. But also there are plenty of small  businesses still 
>running XP (in fact there are probably more small business XP  users left, 
>than consumer XP users).

You could consider me in a sense, a "poster senior" for a class of people, 
among whom some could possibly go the Linux route as they migrate away from Win 
XP. If only these poster seniors (or small business Win XP "orphans") had a 
helping hand from e.g. GTALUG. For example, run a kind of GTALUG "clinic" that 
Win XP "orphans" could come to (for a fee) and there work with GTALUG members 
to get their Linux PC built. And later get their data (e.g. emails) converted 
over to e.g. Thunderbird.

Just a thought,  for a way that GTALUG could get more involved with the wider 
community. And perhaps also pull in some club revenue to support GTALUG 
initiatives. Perhsps this is an idea the GTALUG Board could consider. I am 
happy to discuss the idea of being the "guinea pig" for such a project.

* * *
* * *

PROPOSED PC CONFIGURATION

Thsi is decidedly NOT a gamer's PC. It is intended to be an ultra-reliable, 
powerful, fast professional / small business workstation . There is no 
overclocking. There are no add-in graphics cards. It uses established CPU 
technology now being price-discounted because of the introduction of new CPU 
technology.

  -
  -
  CPU  

Re: [GTALUG] 2 weeks on cell phone and chromebook... never again!

[Russell Reiter via talk]

On Jul 25, 2016 2:35 AM, "ac via talk"  wrote:


> > > guidelines that say:
> > > "Particularly for this list:
> > > Don't be the guy on the soapbox,
> > > Try to stay out of political, social, or religious issues,
> > > Avoid bad jokes, personal rants or similar non-Linux related
> > discussion,
> > > Any subscribers who offers or requests pirated software, license
> > > keys or cracks, and similar will be dropped from the list without
> > > warning, and
> > I'm with you here too.
> >
> From my short time on the list I have not seen any of the above?

A long time ago on a server far far away 

Ok just kidding, someone did once post a Windows crack on this list, the
post was deleted and that issue was part of the formulation of the code of
conduct.

>

> >
> pirates? with ships? one eyed Jack? Dreaded black beard?
> do the ships use Linux? should be the question, no?

This was the interesting thing about Stuxnet, although it was Windows
malware, it seemed to be able to transcend the OS in order to find its
target.



> this openness to sometimes diverge from standard Linux topics also
> strengthens the community as we get to know each other, learn from each
> other and for me personally, to make me a better person :)

The debate seems to be mostly about time. The time it takes to craft a
reasonable response vs the time it takes to understand a response.

And constructive criticism, how that criticism is presented and how it is
perceived.

I think Hugh hit the nail right on the head in his rebranded post's
analysis of this thread. People's feelings get hurt when contents are
construed incorrectly.

Posting, according to first order reliability method, should have logical
rules so that information remains true.

I learned FORM as SAP under SOP while taking training in typesetting

A single misplaced orthographic character in a printed form can radically
alter the meaning of the contents.

In cyberspace ... well you can read Hugh's analysis to see the iterative
quality of compounded error.

>
>
> > >
> > > cheers,
> > >  Stewart
> > > ---
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> >
> > Sent from mobile.
>
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Re: [GTALUG] 2 weeks on cell phone and chromebook... never again!

[ac via talk]

On Sun, 24 Jul 2016 07:15:05 -0400
Russell Reiter via talk  wrote:
> On Jul 23, 2016 10:02 PM, "Stewart C. Russell via talk"
>  wrote:
> > On 2016-07-23 05:29 PM, Russell Reiter via talk wrote:
> > > This is a local mail list who's membership seems to be quite far
> > > reaching geographically, so why not topically as well?
> > Because this is explicitly a Linux user group mailing list, with
> I'm with you there.

It is also a community or like minded people. We all share certain
core common values and these values guide and inform our opinions about
Linux, development, direction and many things which all relates
directly to Linux and Open source

> > guidelines that say:
> > "Particularly for this list:
> > Don't be the guy on the soapbox,
> > Try to stay out of political, social, or religious issues,
> > Avoid bad jokes, personal rants or similar non-Linux related
> discussion,
> > Any subscribers who offers or requests pirated software, license
> > keys or cracks, and similar will be dropped from the list without
> > warning, and
> I'm with you here too.
> 
From my short time on the list I have not seen any of the above?

I have learned a heck of a lot about voltage and some threads have
resulted in me abusing my google fu - one thread, which was not much
Linux related, actually did give me an idea which made me place a
comment on a dev website relating to Linux, so, go figure...

> > No commercial advertising.
> A job posting now and then never hurt anyone.
> 
hehehe, unless you are sitting in dark Africa in the middle of Zimbabwe
or in rural South Africa :)

> > Off topic messages will not be tolerated or endorsed."
> I take this to mean don't hijack the thread topic.
> If people are actively engaged and discussing something even remotely
> related to Linux I can't see the harm.
> This was my point about Linux world domination and how broad ranging
> the subject of Linux has become.
> 
+1

like I said, the shared life experiences and open conversations in this
community is amazing, there are some seriously cool people on this list
and I am extremely happy that I found it.

> My pet peeve is that people snip without noting which makes it
> difficult to understand context of the topic even if you are trying
> to follow it. That and top posting, but I'm not going to soapbox the
> issue, I'm going to go with the flow.
> 
oops ;)

> The guidelines can say almost anything. At the end of the day the
> list is the users and the users are the list.
> 
ubuntu - people - community - us

> People who are peeved with others can always block them. The list
> administrators can block pirates and abusers if there is a consensus
> to do so.
> 
pirates? with ships? one eyed Jack? Dreaded black beard?
do the ships use Linux? should be the question, no?

> Heck we even occasionally have had threads about M$ and C# without
> problem. Not exactly Linux but SAMBA does let us use M$ symmetric
> message blocks to print to Windohs networks.
> See three bad jokes in one paragraph, C#=CASH, for illustration only.
> 
> Compromising is the key to success in almost any circumstances. You
> never have to compromise your principles on the list tho. You can
> always unsubscribe or filter content you find objectionable.
> 

also, look at my self introduction... this list is tolerant.

imho tolerance is an amazing thing that results directly in growth, 
stimulates freedom, openness and is core to Linux philosophy

this openness to sometimes diverge from standard Linux topics also
strengthens the community as we get to know each other, learn from each
other and for me personally, to make me a better person :)


> >
> > cheers,
> >  Stewart
> > ---
> > Talk Mailing List
> > talk@gtalug.org
> > https://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
> 
> Sent from mobile.

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