Re: [GTALUG] POP3 vs IMAP
On 2019-06-08 09:24 PM, Chris F.A. Johnson wrote: > On Sat, 8 Jun 2019, James Knott via talk wrote: > ?? But, once it's downloaded, you can do anything you like with it. >> >> Now, try to keep multiple devices in sync, including sent mail. > > Not interested. > But it's certainly doable. > How would you sync sent messages? With received messages, you have to leave the message on the POP server long enough for all devices to download. --- Talk Mailing List talk@gtalug.org https://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [GTALUG] POP3 vs IMAP
On 2019-06-08 9:13 p.m., James Knott via talk wrote: On 2019-06-08 08:36 PM, Chris F.A. Johnson via talk wrote: POP is download only. But, once it's downloaded, you can do anything you like with it. Now, try to keep multiple devices in sync, including sent mail. As I briefly touched on, my main computer at home has my email archives. I use POP and they are removed from the email server. I prefer it that way. My cell phone accesses my emails using IMAP. I can stay on top of things and respond to anything that is urgent. Nothing old is urgent. It can wait until I get home. -- Stephen --- Talk Mailing List talk@gtalug.org https://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
[GTALUG] GNU Cauldron for GCC This Year
Greetings All, I was wondering if anyone else here is attending the GNU Cauldron this year for GCC. Just a little curious as seems I got a grant for it as a student and I know there is one or two other compiler developers in the group if I'm correct. Nick --- Talk Mailing List talk@gtalug.org https://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [GTALUG] POP3 vs IMAP
On Sat, 8 Jun 2019, James Knott via talk wrote: On 2019-06-08 08:36 PM, Chris F.A. Johnson via talk wrote: POP is download only. ?? But, once it's downloaded, you can do anything you like with it. Now, try to keep multiple devices in sync, including sent mail. Not interested. But it's certainly doable. --- Talk Mailing List talk@gtalug.org https://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [GTALUG] POP3 vs IMAP
On 2019-06-08 08:36 PM, Chris F.A. Johnson via talk wrote: >> POP is download only. > > But, once it's downloaded, you can do anything you like with it. Now, try to keep multiple devices in sync, including sent mail. --- Talk Mailing List talk@gtalug.org https://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [GTALUG] POP3 vs IMAP
On Sat, 8 Jun 2019, Loui Chang via talk wrote: On Sat 08 Jun 2019 12:20 -0400, Stephen via talk wrote: IMAP Allows multiple devices to access you emails Keeps messages on server IMAP also allows to preserve some kind of folder structure on the server and synch (upload/download) those folders bi-laterally between client and server including Sent Mail and Drafts. POP is download only. But, once it's downloaded, you can do anything you like with it. I keep parallel mbox and (modified) maildir hierarchies. I use mbox with alpine, and maildir for processing individual messages and (theoretically) statistical analysis. --- Talk Mailing List talk@gtalug.org https://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [GTALUG] POP3 vs IMAP
On Sat 08 Jun 2019 12:20 -0400, Stephen via talk wrote: > IMAP > Allows multiple devices to access you emails > Keeps messages on server IMAP also allows to preserve some kind of folder structure on the server and synch (upload/download) those folders bi-laterally between client and server including Sent Mail and Drafts. POP is download only. --- Talk Mailing List talk@gtalug.org https://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [GTALUG] POP3 vs IMAP
On Sat 08 Jun 2019 14:30 -0400, Howard Gibson via talk wrote: >Sylpheed and Claws store email in MH (Mail Handler) format. This format is >used by mh and mutt. Mutt can use many different mail formats including mbox, mh and maildir which I personally use. https://linux.die.net/man/5/muttrc "mbox_type" --- Talk Mailing List talk@gtalug.org https://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [GTALUG] Calling all networking and SVN gurus
On 2019-06-08 05:08 PM, Jamon Camisso via talk wrote: > On 6/8/19 4:50 PM, James Knott via talk wrote: >> Bottom line, fragments are unlikely to be an issue as all modern OSs use >> PMTUD on TCP and Linux uses it on everything. > True enough, but it is also easy to check and determine whether it is an > issue. I get a ticket or two a month with remote employees who are > connecting from strange places, or have issues with VPNs, and quite a > few are MTU related. > > I'm curious about PMTUD now: my understanding is that ICMP needs to be > unrestricted between server & client. If something is blocking that > traffic how does it work? Also how does PTMUD handle asymmetric paths? > The ICMP message would be sent to the source, so asymmetric paths would not be an issue. There is also provisions for when ICMP is blocked. Take a look at IPv4 traffic with Wireshark. You'll see the do not fragment flag is set on TCP in Windows and on everything in Linux. This means routers are not supposed to fragment. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Path_MTU_Discovery. --- Talk Mailing List talk@gtalug.org https://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [GTALUG] Calling all networking and SVN gurus
On 6/8/19 4:50 PM, James Knott via talk wrote: > > Bottom line, fragments are unlikely to be an issue as all modern OSs use > PMTUD on TCP and Linux uses it on everything. True enough, but it is also easy to check and determine whether it is an issue. I get a ticket or two a month with remote employees who are connecting from strange places, or have issues with VPNs, and quite a few are MTU related. I'm curious about PMTUD now: my understanding is that ICMP needs to be unrestricted between server & client. If something is blocking that traffic how does it work? Also how does PTMUD handle asymmetric paths? Cheers, Jamon --- Talk Mailing List talk@gtalug.org https://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [GTALUG] Calling all networking and SVN gurus
On 2019-06-08 04:26 PM, Jamon Camisso via talk wrote: > First thing I'd look at is MTU between Jenkins and the remote server. If > there's some route churn you could conceivably end up with different > MTUs which can lead to inconsistent fragmentation or timeouts. With a > large SVN repo and lots of propfind requests, the overhead of a bad MTU > somewhere along the line would be quite noticeable. Try tracepath & > tracepath6 to see what things look like between the hosts. IP has been designed to work with different size MTU from the beginning. Many years ago, 576 bytes was common on dial up connections. These days 1492 is common for ADSL, as well as the commonly used 1500 on cable modems, etc.. It's even possible to have 9000 bytes on a network and, back when I was at IBM in the late 90s, we used token ring with 4K bytes MTU, IIRC. Routers would fragment the packets to accommodate the changes in MTU along the path and TCP will negotiate the maximum segment size, based on the smallest MTU at each end. These days fragmentation has been largely replaced with path MTU discovery, where a change to a smaller MTU will cause an ICMP message, back to the source, advising of the maximum usable MTU. PMTUD is mandatory on IPv6. Bottom line, fragments are unlikely to be an issue as all modern OSs use PMTUD on TCP and Linux uses it on everything. --- Talk Mailing List talk@gtalug.org https://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [GTALUG] Calling all networking and SVN gurus
On 6/7/19 1:16 PM, Giles Orr via talk wrote: > To forestall the inevitable suggestion: no, the solution is not to move > to git. At least not yet: for various reasons, it can't happen right > now. This is the last holdout, all our other repos are already git. > I've so far failed at getting more logging out of SVN and Apache: what I > do have doesn't tell me much useful, at least not related to these failures. You could turn on trace logging for mod_dav, and if you are worried about spamming logs, put some conditionals around the jenkins host's IP. e.g. 'LogLevel info dav:trace3' would turn on trace3 level logging for dav and leave everything else at info. > This problem is intermittent and infrequent. I'm thinking the next step > is network sniffing - although I'm hoping someone can suggest something > better. I'm relatively inexperienced with Wireshark and tcpdump (and > SVN ...), but what experience I do have suggests all I'm going to get is > to learn that SVN stopped providing data without finding out why or how > to fix it. First thing I'd look at is MTU between Jenkins and the remote server. If there's some route churn you could conceivably end up with different MTUs which can lead to inconsistent fragmentation or timeouts. With a large SVN repo and lots of propfind requests, the overhead of a bad MTU somewhere along the line would be quite noticeable. Try tracepath & tracepath6 to see what things look like between the hosts. Also check to see if there's some mixed IPv4/IPv6 business going on. I doubt it, but I've seen inconsistent behaviour with dual stack applications that aren't explicitly configured to support one or both. Otherwise, to eliminate whether it is SVN on Windows that's the issue, try rsyncing the underlying repository and bypass SVN entirely. Cygwin has SSH & rsync support, so you can do fast differential rsyncs. Then in the jenkins job, specify whatever svn operations you need to unlock and checkout the correct branch & revision. Let us know what you find! --- Talk Mailing List talk@gtalug.org https://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [GTALUG] POP3 vs IMAP
On 6/8/19 12:05 PM, o1bigtenor via talk wrote: Greetings Working on setting up Claws - - an email handling tool and I need to choose whether I use POP3 or IMAP. What I've been able to find so far doesn't really give any kind of clear direction. I have lots of storage here and am planning on starting with my least used addresses just to make sure things are working well before I do a complete switch. As a general rule only use IMAP. If you intend to leave your mail on the mail server then IMAP is just about manditory. IMAP also has a number of features not provided by POP. 1) server based mail search 2) multi client synchronization 3) multiple hierarchical folders 4) random access to messages without having to re-read the inbox. 5) IMAP servers usually support like Sieve for mail filtering. 6) write messages to a "sent" folder About 5 years ago I stopped supporting POP at all and my email clients must use IMAPS. -- Alvin Starr || land: (647)478-6285 Netvel Inc. || Cell: (416)806-0133 al...@netvel.net || --- Talk Mailing List talk@gtalug.org https://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [GTALUG] POP3 vs IMAP
If your email is on Yahoo/Google, then they can talk POP3 or IMAP when talking with you. The emails will be stored in their own formats internally, anyways. So, I don't think it matters. -- William Park On Sat, Jun 08, 2019 at 11:05:21AM -0500, o1bigtenor via talk wrote: > Greetings > > Working on setting up Claws - - an email handling tool and I need to > choose whether I use > POP3 or IMAP. > What I've been able to find so far doesn't really give any kind of > clear direction. > I have lots of storage here and am planning on starting with my least > used addresses just to make sure things are working well before I do a > complete switch. > > Please advise. > > TIA > --- > Talk Mailing List > talk@gtalug.org > https://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk --- Talk Mailing List talk@gtalug.org https://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [GTALUG] POP3 vs IMAP
On Sat, 8 Jun 2019 11:05:21 -0500 o1bigtenor via talk wrote: > Greetings > > Working on setting up Claws - - an email handling tool and I need to > choose whether I use > POP3 or IMAP. > What I've been able to find so far doesn't really give any kind of > clear direction. > I have lots of storage here and am planning on starting with my least > used addresses just to make sure things are working well before I do a > complete switch. > > Please advise. o1bigtenor, I am running Sypheed here, which is what Claws is based on. I use POP3 to download email. It has been a long time since I have configured it. I recall that the word today is NOCLOBBER. In POP, you have the choice of deleting or not deleting your email as you download it. Initially, you want to not delete it. Once things are reliable, you want the online stuff deleted. I currently download and clobber email from eol.ca, google.com, and torfree.net. I don't want my email to be online. I transfer my current email folders from my desktop to my laptop when I travel. Sylpheed and Claws store email in MH (Mail Handler) format. This format is used by mh and mutt. Almost all other Linux email programs, including Evolution and Thunderbird, use mbox format. In MH, each email is stored as a separate file. In mbox, each mail folder is stored as a file. -- Howard Gibson hgib...@eol.ca jhowardgib...@gmail.com http://home.eol.ca/~hgibson --- Talk Mailing List talk@gtalug.org https://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [GTALUG] POP3 vs IMAP
On 2019-06-08 1:16 p.m., James Knott via talk wrote: On 2019-06-08 12:20 PM, Stephen via talk wrote: IMAP Allows multiple devices to access you emails Keeps messages on server POP Deletes messages on server when downloaded Which server??? When I ran my own IMAP server, I used fetchmail to download & delete the messages from my ISP's server.?? Of course, leaving the messages on the IMAP server means they'll always be there for when you get another device, use webmail from another computer, etc.. Some accounts are with Rogers/Yahoo others are on my web server. -- Stephen --- Talk Mailing List talk@gtalug.org https://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [GTALUG] POP3 vs IMAP
On 2019-06-08 12:20 PM, Stephen via talk wrote: > > IMAP > Allows multiple devices to access you emails > Keeps messages on server > > POP > Deletes messages on server when downloaded Which server? When I ran my own IMAP server, I used fetchmail to download & delete the messages from my ISP's server. Of course, leaving the messages on the IMAP server means they'll always be there for when you get another device, use webmail from another computer, etc.. --- Talk Mailing List talk@gtalug.org https://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [GTALUG] POP3 vs IMAP
On 2019-06-08 12:05 PM, o1bigtenor via talk wrote: > Working on setting up Claws - - an email handling tool and I need to > choose whether I use > POP3 or IMAP. If you have more than one device, you want IMAP, as it keeps everything synced. --- Talk Mailing List talk@gtalug.org https://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [GTALUG] POP3 vs IMAP
On 2019-06-08 12:05 p.m., o1bigtenor via talk wrote: Greetings Working on setting up Claws - - an email handling tool and I need to choose whether I use POP3 or IMAP. What I've been able to find so far doesn't really give any kind of clear direction. I have lots of storage here and am planning on starting with my least used addresses just to make sure things are working well before I do a complete switch. Please advise. TIA I see the two main differences being: IMAP Allows multiple devices to access you emails Keeps messages on server POP Deletes messages on server when downloaded I have my phone set for IMAP to I see emails when out, and my computer sent to POP so I can download when I am home -- Stephen --- Talk Mailing List talk@gtalug.org https://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
[GTALUG] POP3 vs IMAP
Greetings Working on setting up Claws - - an email handling tool and I need to choose whether I use POP3 or IMAP. What I've been able to find so far doesn't really give any kind of clear direction. I have lots of storage here and am planning on starting with my least used addresses just to make sure things are working well before I do a complete switch. Please advise. TIA --- Talk Mailing List talk@gtalug.org https://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
