Re: [GTALUG] Laptop recommendations?

[William Park via talk]

Guys, guys... this is one (of many) reason why we don't attract newbies.
The thread started with asking about new laptop (circa 2020), and have
deteriorated to PDP-8.  I can assure you no newbies is interested in
PDP-8/11 (circa 19xx).
-- 
William Park 

On Thu, Apr 30, 2020 at 09:08:48PM -0400, James Knott via talk wrote:
> On 2020-04-30 08:46 PM, Stewart C. Russell via talk wrote:
> > Even my PDP8
> 
> Geez...  It's close to 40 years since I last touched a PDP-8.  We had a
> PDP-8i at work.  Anyone else here remember the RIM loader?
> 
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Re: [GTALUG] Laptop recommendations?

[James Knott via talk]

On 2020-04-30 08:46 PM, Stewart C. Russell via talk wrote:

Even my PDP8


Geez...  It's close to 40 years since I last touched a PDP-8.  We had a 
PDP-8i at work.  Anyone else here remember the RIM loader?


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Re: [GTALUG] Laptop recommendations?

[Stewart C. Russell via talk]

On 2020-04-30 10:56 a.m., Howard Gibson via talk wrote:


Does your USB floppy drive work?  I keep ordering these things and they 
work once or twice and then crap out.  The one I have now never worked.  They 
cost something like twelve bucks.  I am willing to pay more of something that 
works.


Seconding the IBM USB floppy drive. They work really well. Newer devices 
can only handle 1.44 MB disks, but the IBM will read 720 K disks too. 
None of them will read the weird Apple IIgs GCR floppies, though.


If you must use floppies or a device that thinks it needs them, Goteks 
are nice. They replace the floppy hardware with a USB port for a memory 
stick that can hold hundreds of floppy images.


Even my PDP8 (single board, but real Harris/Intersil HD-6120) uses a CF 
card these days … https://mltshp.com/p/1IF2N


 Stewart

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Re: [GTALUG] ftrace-time support in Clang

[Nicholas Krause via talk]

On 4/30/20 12:53 PM, D. Hugh Redelmeier via talk wrote:

| From: Nicholas Krause via talk 
|
| This seems to be a rather not know option on the LLVM side and it seems GCC
| does not support it.
| https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=LLVM-Clang-9.0-Time-Trace
|
| Its now in mainline as the articles like this one were mostly written before
| it was merged in clang/llvm
| version 9. 10 was just released so its now in the mainline.
|
| Maybe it interests some people here who build large software products or use
| embedded build systems,

As I understand the description, it lets you find the hot-spots in the
compilation process (i.e. the runtime of an LLVM compiler itself).  I
admit that the description doesn't make this completely clear.

If I'm right, this feature is only useful for LLVM developers.
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Yes and no.  A lot of features in the middle end and back ends can take 
up lots of
time so for example if your on a project that uses -O3 for unrolling for 
example
it may be good to figure out if those options are useful. A lot of 
people just turn
them off and on again but this ones into issues. Mainly two options can 
run together

and be dependable on each for build speed.

Seeing what the hot passes are may be good for figuring out what compiler
options to enable/disable for speed build.  Ccache and other tools can
only go so far, as buildhistory also for the Yocto Project only shows you
how long each package takes. There doesn't seem to be a way outside
of this to check for compiler tuning parameters taking up lots of time.
Its intended to see hot/cold paths in the actual passes and therefore
link up to what tuning parameters should/may not be required at all.

A lot of people think its not useful but it probably is for optimizing 
build speed

but you can disagree,

Nick


--
Fundamentally an organism has conscious mental states if and only if there is 
something that it is like to be that organism--something it is like for the 
organism. - Thomas Nagel

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Re: [GTALUG] Problem new virtual host

[Stephen via talk]

On 2020-04-30 4:46 p.m., James Knott via talk wrote:
What happens if you use the host command?  You can also use the host 
command with the IP address, to see what host name shows up.  What 
happens if you use the IP address with a browser?


The host command without an argument gives me a help listing.

The host command with my server's local IP address gives me a list of 
all virtual hosts listed in my hosts file.


Entering my local IP in a browser gets me to Gerbera's control panel.

--
Stephen
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Re: [GTALUG] Problem new virtual host

[James Knott via talk]

On 2020-04-30 04:37 PM, Stephen via talk wrote:

On 2020-04-30 4:29 p.m., James Knott via talk wrote:



Did you add that site to a DNS server?

According to the host command, you didn't.

 > host www.roissystudiotest.ca
Host www.roissystudiotest.ca not found: 3(NXDOMAIN)


"Whenever you type an address, your system will check the hosts file 
for its presence; if it is present there, you will be directed to the 
corresponding IP. If the hostname is not defined in the hosts file, 
your system will check the DNS server of your internet to look up for 
the corresponding IP and redirect you accordingly."




What happens if you use the host command?  You can also use the host 
command with the IP address, to see what host name shows up.  What 
happens if you use the IP address with a browser?


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Re: [GTALUG] Problem new virtual host

[Stephen via talk]

On 2020-04-30 4:29 p.m., James Knott via talk wrote:



Did you add that site to a DNS server?

According to the host command, you didn't.

 > host www.roissystudiotest.ca
Host www.roissystudiotest.ca not found: 3(NXDOMAIN)


"Whenever you type an address, your system will check the hosts file for 
its presence; if it is present there, you will be directed to the 
corresponding IP. If the hostname is not defined in the hosts file, your 
system will check the DNS server of your internet to look up for the 
corresponding IP and redirect you accordingly."


--
Stephen
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Re: [GTALUG] Problem new virtual host

[James Knott via talk]

On 2020-04-30 04:26 PM, Stephen via talk wrote:

I posted this to the Apache list but someone here may be able to help:



I have a standard LAMP for development.

I set up a new virtual host about once every two years and always 
struggle.


I have added the web site to my hosts file and direct to my server. I 
have a dozen entries.


I have updated my virtual hosts Apache file

I can ping the new virtual host just fine.

But both Brave and Firefox raise an error saying that the host cannot 
be reached?


Firefox:

Unable to connect

Firefox can’t establish a connection to the server at 
roissystudiotest.ca.


Brave:
This site can’t be reached

www.roissystudiotest.ca refused to connect.



I was getting the Apache default page but corrected the file 
permissions to 755.




Any and all help welcome!



Did you add that site to a DNS server?

According to the host command, you didn't.

> host www.roissystudiotest.ca
Host www.roissystudiotest.ca not found: 3(NXDOMAIN)



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[GTALUG] Problem new virtual host

[Stephen via talk]

I posted this to the Apache list but someone here may be able to help:



I have a standard LAMP for development.

I set up a new virtual host about once every two years and always struggle.

I have added the web site to my hosts file and direct to my server. I 
have a dozen entries.


I have updated my virtual hosts Apache file

I can ping the new virtual host just fine.

But both Brave and Firefox raise an error saying that the host cannot be 
reached?


Firefox:

Unable to connect

Firefox can’t establish a connection to the server at roissystudiotest.ca.

Brave:
This site can’t be reached

www.roissystudiotest.ca refused to connect.



I was getting the Apache default page but corrected the file permissions 
to 755.




Any and all help welcome!

--
Stephen
www.roissy.ca




--
Stephen
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Re: [GTALUG] Laptop recommendations?

[James Knott via talk]

On 2020-04-30 03:29 PM, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote:

| From: James Knott via talk

| Here is a photo of a core memory plane that I have.  It's 4K bits and came
| from a Collins B8500 computer.  There were 32 of these stacked in a module and
| 4 modules in the memory chassis, for a total of 64 KB.
|https://drive.google.com/open?id=1F0K1vDzT0HjrBDKySpQ8m91TPw2UDCsS

I find a Collins C8500 mentioned here, but no B series at all



The B preceded the C.  That article also mentions the 8400.  We had all 
3 at CN Telecommunications/CNCP Telecommunications.  The C8400 and B8500 
systems were were on the 4th floor at 151 Front St. W and the C8500 in 
Air Canada on the 6th floor (later expanded to 7th). The Air Canada 
C8500s were a communications front end for a Univac system, but the CN 
systems were the message switching systems for various services CN 
offered, including the public telegraph system and others.  The 
telegraph system later moved to some Data General Eclipse S130s.


From Dec. 1977 to Sept 1989, I was a computer tech there and worked on 
a variety of systems, including Data General Nova & Eclipse, DEC PDP-8, 
PDP-11 and VAX 11/780, Pr1me, Philips DS714 and Collins. There was also 
an HP 1000, but I didn't work on that.


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Re: [GTALUG] Laptop recommendations?

[D. Hugh Redelmeier via talk]

| From: James Knott via talk 

| Here is a photo of a core memory plane that I have.  It's 4K bits and came
| from a Collins B8500 computer.  There were 32 of these stacked in a module and
| 4 modules in the memory chassis, for a total of 64 KB.
| https://drive.google.com/open?id=1F0K1vDzT0HjrBDKySpQ8m91TPw2UDCsS

I find a Collins C8500 mentioned here, but no B series at all


Burroughs had announced a B8500 but it was cancelled.
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Re: [GTALUG] Laptop recommendations?

[James Knott via talk]

On 2020-04-30 01:56 PM, Anthony de Boer via talk wrote:

El Fontanero via talk wrote:
 Why, we'd 'a given our eye teeth for PCMCIA! In*my*  
day...

Back in the day a REAL card went 9 Edge First, and you'd best remember to
dump out the chad hopper after punching your program.

I think I still have a FORTRAN deck I did back when.


Here is a photo of a core memory plane that I have.  It's 4K bits and 
came from a Collins B8500 computer.  There were 32 of these stacked in a 
module and 4 modules in the memory chassis, for a total of 64 KB.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1F0K1vDzT0HjrBDKySpQ8m91TPw2UDCsS


[3] formats were never quite the same; who else remembers the story of
how Apple ][ floppies were written and read based on 6502 clock cycles of
the I/O loop


I recall that it wasn't compatible with anything else.


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Re: [GTALUG] Laptop recommendations?

[Anthony de Boer via talk]

El Fontanero via talk wrote:
>  Why, we'd 'a given our eye teeth for PCMCIA! In *my* 
> day...

Back in the day a REAL card went 9 Edge First, and you'd best remember to
dump out the chad hopper after punching your program.

I think I still have a FORTRAN deck I did back when.

Meanwhile, addressing the old-media-compatibility issue, having USB
dongles that do the job is probably[0] the third best thing, second best
is keeping an old system[1] around that still has the relevant
readers[2], and the best is to have dubbed all your old media to newer
storage during the era both were current so you'd not have to worry about
whether you can get one more gasp out of the corpse of dead technology.

For a laptop, portability, usability, and not being so stinking
expensive you're afraid to take it anywhere are key attributes. Being
able to leave most of your bag of tricks at home or in the car or in the
laptop bag can really save weight and clutter.

[0] those are never quite the same as the classic hardware they replace.

[1] eventually ancient hardware supported in an earlier Linux will be
forgotten by newer kernels; a software upgrade on your designated
dinosaur can too easily be what kills it.

[2] optical drive or some of the three sizes of floppy[3] drive.

[3] formats were never quite the same; who else remembers the story of
how Apple ][ floppies were written and read based on 6502 clock cycles of
the I/O loop, or ran the disassembler deep enough to comprehend the true
horror of how CP/M on that platform did its disk functions?

-- 
Anthony de Boer
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Re: [GTALUG] ftrace-time support in Clang

[D. Hugh Redelmeier via talk]

| From: Nicholas Krause via talk 
| 
| This seems to be a rather not know option on the LLVM side and it seems GCC
| does not support it.
| https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=LLVM-Clang-9.0-Time-Trace
| 
| Its now in mainline as the articles like this one were mostly written before
| it was merged in clang/llvm
| version 9. 10 was just released so its now in the mainline.
| 
| Maybe it interests some people here who build large software products or use
| embedded build systems,

As I understand the description, it lets you find the hot-spots in the
compilation process (i.e. the runtime of an LLVM compiler itself).  I
admit that the description doesn't make this completely clear.

If I'm right, this feature is only useful for LLVM developers.
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Re: [GTALUG] Laptop recommendations?

[Dave Collier-Brown via talk]

On 2020-04-30 11:37 a.m., Evan Leibovitch via talk wrote:

I for one prefer to have my laptops with as few moving (and especially 
spinning) parts as possible. In the days of half-terabyte USB sticks, having a 
disk reader inside a laptop is dead space/weight used for archiving/ripping, 
and certainly doesn't need to be as portable as the rest of the computer.

...

My main laptop uses a dongle for wired Ethernet (a reasonable trade-off 
considering how rarely I use it),but I've seen ingeniously-thin RJ45 sockets 
built into some units.

- Evan

I've recently switched back to using docking stations, which give me toms of 
USB ports, multiple screen ports and wired Ethernet. My next machine won't need 
as many and as man kinds of ports onboard.

Colleagues at work use a cute little mac thingie that their screens and 
Ethernets plug into, a really small dock.

--dave

--
David Collier-Brown, | Always do right. This will gratify
System Programmer and Author | some people and astonish the rest
dave.collier-br...@indexexchange.com
 |  -- Mark Twain



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Re: [GTALUG] Laptop recommendations?

[James Knott via talk]

On 2020-04-30 11:37 AM, Evan Leibovitch via talk wrote:
My main laptop uses a dongle for wired Ethernet (a reasonable 
trade-off considering how rarely I use it),but I've seen 
ingeniously-thin RJ45 sockets built into some units.


Back when I was at IBM (the first time), modems and network adapters 
came in the form of PCMCIA cards.  Those were a tight squeeze for the 
connectors, but they managed.  My R31 ThinkPad came with built in 
Ethernet and modem, but I lost the modem when I updated the WiFi from B 
only to G.  The modem and original WiFi shared the same daughter board.



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Re: [GTALUG] Laptop recommendations?

[Evan Leibovitch via talk]

I for one prefer to have my laptops with as few moving (and especially
spinning) parts as possible. In the days of half-terabyte USB sticks,
having a disk reader inside a laptop is dead space/weight used for
archiving/ripping, and certainly doesn't need to be as portable as the rest
of the computer.

This weekend I'm replacing a kaput HD on a Dell laptop with an SDD (if I
can figure out to reinstall Windows on it for the laptop's owner, fine, if
not it's Kubuntu 20.04).

I have an external drive for CD/DVD/Bluray and another one for floppies
that is shared between devices. The floppy drive -- a $14 Aliexpress
generic -- is flaky but that usually seems more the fault of the media than
the drive. How old are those disks? How fragile are those sliding covers?

My main laptop uses a dongle for wired Ethernet (a reasonable trade-off
considering how rarely I use it),but I've seen ingeniously-thin RJ45
sockets built into some units.

- Evan


On Thu, 30 Apr 2020 at 10:57, Howard Gibson via talk 
wrote:

> James,
>
>Does your USB floppy drive work?  I keep ordering these things and they
> work once or twice and then crap out.  The one I have now never worked.
> They cost something like twelve bucks.  I am willing to pay more of
> something that works.
>
> On Mon, 27 Apr 2020 10:39:44 -0400
> James Knott via talk  wrote:
>
> > On 2020-04-27 10:22 AM, Howard Gibson via talk wrote:
> > > I think my current laptop has an RJ45 port.  I bought a docking
> station for it, so I use that.  Historically, I use the RJ45s because I
> transfer data to and from the laptop, and I want it to happen quickly.
> >
> > I use Wifi or Ethernet.  For normal use, WiFi is fine.  But if I'm doing
> > something major, such as installing an OS, then I'll use Ethernet.
> > > I visited Canada Computers in Etobicoke, and I think I got the
> last desktop with slots for DVD/Blu-Ray discs (and 5-1/4 floppy drives),
> and controls on the front.  My cat can no longer turn my computer off.  You
> people are on your own!
> >
> > At least I have an external USB floppy drive! ;-)
> >
> > ---
> > Post to this mailing list talk@gtalug.org
> > Unsubscribe from this mailing list
> https://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
>
> --
> Howard Gibson
> hgib...@eol.ca
> jhowardgib...@gmail.com
> http://home.eol.ca/~hgibson
> ---
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>


-- 
Evan Leibovitch, Toronto Canada
@evanleibovitch or @el56
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Re: [GTALUG] Laptop recommendations?

[James Knott via talk]

On 2020-04-30 10:56 AM, Howard Gibson via talk wrote:

Does your USB floppy drive work?  I keep ordering these things and they 
work once or twice and then crap out.  The one I have now never worked.  They 
cost something like twelve bucks.  I am willing to pay more of something that 
works.



I had to find a floppy disk to test it with, but yes it still works.  As 
soon as I put the floppy in the drive, the Device Notifier asked if I 
wanted to open it.  I did and can see all the files on the floppy.


However, this isn't some cheap drive from the Internet.  It's actual IBM 
gear that came with my first ThinkPad.  Back when I bought the ThinkPad, 
from the IBM Warehouse in Markham, I had the choice of an internal 
floppy drive or CD drive.  I went with the CD drive and external floppy 
drive.  On the bottom it says "IBM Portable Diskette Drive" etc..  P/N 
06P5223.  So, if you want something reliable, perhaps you could find one 
of those.



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Re: [GTALUG] Laptop recommendations?

[Howard Gibson via talk]

James,

   Does your USB floppy drive work?  I keep ordering these things and they work 
once or twice and then crap out.  The one I have now never worked.  They cost 
something like twelve bucks.  I am willing to pay more of something that works. 

On Mon, 27 Apr 2020 10:39:44 -0400
James Knott via talk  wrote:

> On 2020-04-27 10:22 AM, Howard Gibson via talk wrote:
> > I think my current laptop has an RJ45 port.  I bought a docking station 
> > for it, so I use that.  Historically, I use the RJ45s because I transfer 
> > data to and from the laptop, and I want it to happen quickly.
> 
> I use Wifi or Ethernet.  For normal use, WiFi is fine.  But if I'm doing 
> something major, such as installing an OS, then I'll use Ethernet.
> > I visited Canada Computers in Etobicoke, and I think I got the last 
> > desktop with slots for DVD/Blu-Ray discs (and 5-1/4 floppy drives), and 
> > controls on the front.  My cat can no longer turn my computer off.  You 
> > people are on your own!
> 
> At least I have an external USB floppy drive! ;-)
> 
> ---
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-- 
Howard Gibson 
hgib...@eol.ca
jhowardgib...@gmail.com
http://home.eol.ca/~hgibson
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