Re: [GTALUG] Brand-name desktop recommendation?

2017-11-14 Thread Lennart Sorensen via talk 
On Sat, Nov 11, 2017 at 01:56:19PM -0500, Evan Leibovitch via talk wrote:
> FWIW, the brand I have reliably stuck with has been Asus ... as in
> motherboards.

Yeah I stick with Asus boards in my own desktop machines.  Of course for
home I would never buy a premade desktop.  I want something good and I
don't mind putting it together myself.  I like doing that part usually
(I have one machine that was actually a pain the ass to work on, but I
doubt any store would have been willing to assemble that one either.
Putting six 4TB drives, a bluray writer, a sabertooth X77 with core
i7-3820 and 32GB ram in a home theatre PC case probably qualifies as nuts.
It was very hard to get all the cables in the right place).

> The last few desktops I have bought for myself have been from Canada
> Computers; I research the individual components (case, CPU, mobo, video,
> SSD, etc), and the store will assemble and test together the result for
> what I consider a nominal fee. This path also makes it easy to buy a system
> without an OS pre-loaded, so I'm not wasting money on a Windows license
> I'll not be using; that can be difficult when looking at desktops bought
> retail (ie, BestBuy or Costco).

-- 
Len Sorensen
---
Talk Mailing List
talk@gtalug.org
https://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk

Re: [GTALUG] Brand-name desktop recommendation?

2017-11-14 Thread Lennart Sorensen via talk 
On Sat, Nov 11, 2017 at 12:25:06PM -0500, James Knott via talk wrote:
> On 11/11/2017 11:17 AM, Don Tai wrote:
> > For me, all desktop brands are interchangeable, as are their components.
> 
> I guess you don't remember the Compaqs of a few years ago, that often
> used proprietary parts.

Dell certainly still does.  I have seen some facinating power connectors
on motherboards recently.  At least they don't look remotely like ATX
anymore so you can't confuse them.

-- 
Len Sorensen
---
Talk Mailing List
talk@gtalug.org
https://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk

Re: [GTALUG] Brand-name desktop recommendation?

2017-11-14 Thread Lennart Sorensen via talk 
On Fri, Nov 10, 2017 at 11:58:11PM -0500, William Park via talk wrote:
> I've been asked by few people about which desktop to buy.  They are
> technical enough to swap components, but definitely don't have time to
> troubleshoot.  They have more important things to do.  So, I said any
> brand, new or refurbished, except HP.

Actually at my previous job we started getting HP EliteDesk 800 tower
machines and they were actually surprisingly nice little machines.
Well at least 2 years ago they were.  They were certainly better made
than the Lenovo ThinkCentres we had been getting.  I was not impressed
by those at all.  At my current job I have a thinkpad (very nice of
course) and some Dell business desktop (seems to work just fine and no
issues with it although I think the HP was a bit nicer perhaps).

Anything consumer targeted from HP though is best avoided.

> Things may have changed, and HP may be good now.  Which brand would you
> recommend for desktop computer for business people?

-- 
Len Sorensen
---
Talk Mailing List
talk@gtalug.org
https://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk

Re: [GTALUG] Brand-name desktop recommendation?

2017-11-12 Thread D. Hugh Redelmeier via talk 
| From: William Park via talk 

| I've been asked by few people about which desktop to buy.  They are
| technical enough to swap components, but definitely don't have time to
| troubleshoot.  They have more important things to do.  So, I said any
| brand, new or refurbished, except HP.
| 
| Things may have changed, and HP may be good now.  Which brand would you
| recommend for desktop computer for business people?

It depends.

For real business people, willing to spend a bit more, most
manufacturers have a business (as opposed to consumer) line of
computers.  Or even lines.

Brand names include: Lenovo Think*, Dell OptiPlex or Precision, HP 
something-or-other (Z?  EliteDesk? they keep changing names), Acert 
Veriton.

What follows are some hints of inexpensive not-new boxes.

If you do care about price, you can get an off-lease business computer
from a variety of places.  But then you need to know what you are
missing by having an old machine.

My general rule is: Haswell and later processors are pretty safe.
Those processors have 4 digit models that start with 4.  Sandy Bridge
and Ivy Bridge (2 and 3) use more electricity and probably don't come
with USB 3 but are still useful.

I have recently bought off-lease computers from refurb.io (look for
sales) and Dell Financial Services (look for sales).  For some reason,
Haswell isn't showing up often.  I suspect that since progress in
processors has slowed down, companies are holding onto their computers
longer.

There is a second kind of discounted machines: open-box or refurbs.
Actually "refurbished" is pretty confusing: sometimes it means
computers returned by purchasers and checked over by a refurbisher;
sometimes it means off-lease and checked over by a refurbisher.
(The refurbisher might be the manufacturer or it might be a different
company; it makes a difference.)

I used to buy refurbs of the almost-new variety from Staples.  They
didn't always have them and they didn't always sell them at a good
price.  They moved that business to ebay.  That's where my main
desktop came from.

No desktops at the moment.  Or laptops.  Maybe they aren't doing this
any longer.

Dell Financial Services:

Deal ending today (but there will be more for Black Friday):


Refurb.io's ebay store.  10% off with coupon PERFORM until Nov. 14:

This is a pretty good deal on an older business-class computer with
monitor, keyboard and mouse (the keyboard and mouse I got from
refurb.io a couple of months ago were horrible).  This is a Sandy
Bridge processor, an i5 2400 -- a decent older processor.

This computer is also a business desktop but it has a Haswell
processor.


These have hard disks. For most purposes I'd install an SSD.  Modern
desktops (Windows and Linux) perform a lot better when running off
SSDs.  Only the system itself, not your files, need to be on the SSD.
So a small one is OK.  But 256G (bigger than necessary) is a sweet
spot.

RAM matters.  I think that 2G is OK, not great.  More is always
better.

This is more or less what I bought a couple of months ago.  I paid
less and mine probably had smaller resources.  Note that these SFF computers
have proprietary power supplies which are expensive to replace.



NMicroVIP is a pretty good source for almost-new Asus stuff.  They
have weekly deals.  Only some of their prices are good.

Not many desktops at the moment.

There's lots of stuff on Kijiji.  I would not want to explain how I
figure out which offers are trustable.  But I've had very good luck
(touch wood).
---
Talk Mailing List
talk@gtalug.org
https://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk

Re: [GTALUG] Brand-name desktop recommendation?

2017-11-11 Thread William Park via talk 
Actually, "free" Windows 10 that comes with a new/refurbished computer
is plus, because the required business applications are Windows apps.
:-)

I've forgotten that CanadaComputer builds computers, either their own or
to customer's spec.  Thanks.
-- 
William

On Sat, Nov 11, 2017 at 01:56:19PM -0500, Evan Leibovitch via talk wrote:
> FWIW, the brand I have reliably stuck with has been Asus ... as in
> motherboards.
> 
> The last few desktops I have bought for myself have been from Canada
> Computers; I research the individual components (case, CPU, mobo, video,
> SSD, etc), and the store will assemble and test together the result for
> what I consider a nominal fee. This path also makes it easy to buy a system
> without an OS pre-loaded, so I'm not wasting money on a Windows license
> I'll not be using; that can be difficult when looking at desktops bought
> retail (ie, BestBuy or Costco).
> 
> 
> On 11 November 2017 at 12:31, Don Tai via talk  wrote:
> 
> > Yes, I do have a couple of Compaqs, and I do agree. They do not play well
> > with others. They should be ostracised.
> >
> > I enjoy loading ancient desktops with 500mb ram and getting them to work
> > with linux. Puppy will run on near anything.
> >
> > Don
> >
> > On 11 November 2017 at 12:25, James Knott via talk 
> > wrote:
> >
> >> On 11/11/2017 11:17 AM, Don Tai wrote:
> >> > For me, all desktop brands are interchangeable, as are their components.
> >>
> >> I guess you don't remember the Compaqs of a few years ago, that often
> >> used proprietary parts.
> >> ---
> >> Talk Mailing List
> >> talk@gtalug.org
> >> https://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
> >>
> >
> >
> > ---
> > Talk Mailing List
> > talk@gtalug.org
> > https://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
> >
> >
> 
> 
> -- 
> Evan Leibovitch
> Toronto, Canada
> 
> Em: evan at telly dot org
> Sk: evanleibovitch
> Tw: el56

> ---
> Talk Mailing List
> talk@gtalug.org
> https://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk


-- 
William Park 
---
Talk Mailing List
talk@gtalug.org
https://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk

Re: [GTALUG] Brand-name desktop recommendation?

2017-11-11 Thread Evan Leibovitch via talk 
FWIW, the brand I have reliably stuck with has been Asus ... as in
motherboards.

The last few desktops I have bought for myself have been from Canada
Computers; I research the individual components (case, CPU, mobo, video,
SSD, etc), and the store will assemble and test together the result for
what I consider a nominal fee. This path also makes it easy to buy a system
without an OS pre-loaded, so I'm not wasting money on a Windows license
I'll not be using; that can be difficult when looking at desktops bought
retail (ie, BestBuy or Costco).


On 11 November 2017 at 12:31, Don Tai via talk  wrote:

> Yes, I do have a couple of Compaqs, and I do agree. They do not play well
> with others. They should be ostracised.
>
> I enjoy loading ancient desktops with 500mb ram and getting them to work
> with linux. Puppy will run on near anything.
>
> Don
>
> On 11 November 2017 at 12:25, James Knott via talk 
> wrote:
>
>> On 11/11/2017 11:17 AM, Don Tai wrote:
>> > For me, all desktop brands are interchangeable, as are their components.
>>
>> I guess you don't remember the Compaqs of a few years ago, that often
>> used proprietary parts.
>> ---
>> Talk Mailing List
>> talk@gtalug.org
>> https://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>>
>
>
> ---
> Talk Mailing List
> talk@gtalug.org
> https://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
>


-- 
Evan Leibovitch
Toronto, Canada

Em: evan at telly dot org
Sk: evanleibovitch
Tw: el56
---
Talk Mailing List
talk@gtalug.org
https://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk

Re: [GTALUG] Brand-name desktop recommendation?

2017-11-11 Thread Don Tai via talk 
Yes, I do have a couple of Compaqs, and I do agree. They do not play well
with others. They should be ostracised.

I enjoy loading ancient desktops with 500mb ram and getting them to work
with linux. Puppy will run on near anything.

Don

On 11 November 2017 at 12:25, James Knott via talk  wrote:

> On 11/11/2017 11:17 AM, Don Tai wrote:
> > For me, all desktop brands are interchangeable, as are their components.
>
> I guess you don't remember the Compaqs of a few years ago, that often
> used proprietary parts.
> ---
> Talk Mailing List
> talk@gtalug.org
> https://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
---
Talk Mailing List
talk@gtalug.org
https://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk

Re: [GTALUG] Brand-name desktop recommendation?

2017-11-11 Thread James Knott via talk 
On 11/11/2017 11:17 AM, Don Tai wrote:
> For me, all desktop brands are interchangeable, as are their components.

I guess you don't remember the Compaqs of a few years ago, that often
used proprietary parts.
---
Talk Mailing List
talk@gtalug.org
https://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk

Re: [GTALUG] Brand-name desktop recommendation?

2017-11-11 Thread Don Tai via talk 
For me, all desktop brands are interchangeable, as are their components. I
would also look at the used market, such as kijiji or craigslist. The
purpose of the desktop is also important. Do they need only to browse the
internet or more? More disk is easy to buy. Ram is a bit more difficult, so
ensure the desktop is not ancient.

Don

On 11 November 2017 at 07:10, James Knott via talk  wrote:

> On 11/11/2017 03:42 AM, ac via talk wrote:
> > For Linux, I would strongly recommend HP only :)
> >
> > Not only, and in general, are HP's high and solid state quality, but
> very reliable,
> > supports Linux, and very well suited to business end users
>
> I have a pfSense firewall, which is based on FreeBSD, running on my HP
> computer.
> ---
> Talk Mailing List
> talk@gtalug.org
> https://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
---
Talk Mailing List
talk@gtalug.org
https://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk

Re: [GTALUG] Brand-name desktop recommendation?

2017-11-11 Thread James Knott via talk 
On 11/11/2017 03:42 AM, ac via talk wrote:
> For Linux, I would strongly recommend HP only :)
>
> Not only, and in general, are HP's high and solid state quality, but very 
> reliable, 
> supports Linux, and very well suited to business end users 

I have a pfSense firewall, which is based on FreeBSD, running on my HP
computer.
---
Talk Mailing List
talk@gtalug.org
https://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk

Re: [GTALUG] Brand-name desktop recommendation?

2017-11-11 Thread James Knott via talk 
On 11/11/2017 12:02 AM, Howard Gibson via talk wrote:
> I did not know that HP had a quality problem.

I have a refurb HP computer that I use for my firwall.  No problems with
it at all.
---
Talk Mailing List
talk@gtalug.org
https://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk

Re: [GTALUG] Brand-name desktop recommendation?

2017-11-11 Thread Russell via talk 
I agree with those who are recommending HP desktops. I've never had major 
issues with them and I have worked on quite a few over the years. I am aware 
that others have had problems. That was back in the days of y2k panic tho. I 
believe things have improved quite a bit since then.

Recently I have had good success with Pavilion laptops and my current desktop 
is also Pavillion. 

Currently I've been trying out Linux varients on an HP Mini 110. SOaS, Bunsen, 
Mint and Fedora all worked with no issues.

Fedora 26 is running on it now and seems to offer the best performance on this 
bit of older hardware. Not a speedy desktop with 1 gig ram, but its quite solid.

HTH
Russell

On Nov 10, 2017 11:59 PM, "William Park via talk"  wrote:

I've been asked by few people about which desktop to buy.  They are
technical enough to swap components, but definitely don't have time to
troubleshoot.  They have more important things to do.  So, I said any
brand, new or refurbished, except HP.

Things may have changed, and HP may be good now.  Which brand would you
recommend for desktop computer for business people?
--
William Park 
---
Talk Mailing List
talk@gtalug.org
https://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk



-- 
Russell
Sent by K-9 Mail
---
Talk Mailing List
talk@gtalug.org
https://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk

Re: [GTALUG] Brand-name desktop recommendation?

2017-11-11 Thread ac via talk 
On Fri, 10 Nov 2017 23:58:11 -0500
William Park via talk  wrote:

> I've been asked by few people about which desktop to buy.  They are
> technical enough to swap components, but definitely don't have time to
> troubleshoot.  They have more important things to do.  So, I said any
> brand, new or refurbished, except HP.
> 
> Things may have changed, and HP may be good now.  Which brand would
> you recommend for desktop computer for business people?

For Linux, I would strongly recommend HP only :)

Not only, and in general, are HP's high and solid state quality, but very 
reliable, 
supports Linux, and very well suited to business end users 

my 2c 

Andre
---
Talk Mailing List
talk@gtalug.org
https://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk

Re: [GTALUG] Brand-name desktop recommendation?

2017-11-10 Thread Howard Gibson via talk 
William,

   I did not know that HP had a quality problem.  I regularly tell people I 
hate Hewlett Packard printers.  The printer paper must pass over a roller at 
the back, which seems to be quite a bend in the paper.  This works fine with 
paper, but it is not reliable at printing heavier material like business card 
stock or photo paper.  Otherwise, my HP6940 works fine.

On Fri, 10 Nov 2017 23:58:11 -0500
William Park via talk  wrote:

> I've been asked by few people about which desktop to buy.  They are
> technical enough to swap components, but definitely don't have time to
> troubleshoot.  They have more important things to do.  So, I said any
> brand, new or refurbished, except HP.
> 
> Things may have changed, and HP may be good now.  Which brand would you
> recommend for desktop computer for business people?
> -- 
> William Park 
> ---
> Talk Mailing List
> talk@gtalug.org
> https://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk


-- 
Howard Gibson 
hgib...@eol.ca
jhowardgib...@gmail.com
http://home.eol.ca/~hgibson
---
Talk Mailing List
talk@gtalug.org
https://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk

[GTALUG] Brand-name desktop recommendation?

2017-11-10 Thread William Park via talk 
I've been asked by few people about which desktop to buy.  They are
technical enough to swap components, but definitely don't have time to
troubleshoot.  They have more important things to do.  So, I said any
brand, new or refurbished, except HP.

Things may have changed, and HP may be good now.  Which brand would you
recommend for desktop computer for business people?
-- 
William Park 
---
Talk Mailing List
talk@gtalug.org
https://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk