RE: Question About KNFB and camera.
What is the link for joining the KNFB Reader list? tia Have a great day! Bob Hicks -Original Message- From: Talk [mailto:talk-bounces+bob=seeinghandassociation@lists.window-eyes.com] On Behalf Of Steve Jacobson via Talk Sent: Tuesday, November 28, 2017 11:20 PM To: 'Window-Eyes Discussion List' <talk@lists.window-eyes.com> Cc: Steve Jacobson <steve.jacob...@visi.com> Subject: RE: Question About KNFB and camera. Robert, KNFB reader would do that if it doesn't check for a camera when it starts. There is a KNFB Readers' list, I'll see if anybody knows on that list. Best regards, Steve -Original Message- From: Talk [mailto:talk-bounces+steve.jacobson=visi@lists.window-eyes.com] On Behalf Of Robert Ringwald via Talk Sent: Tuesday, November 28, 2017 9:33 PM To: Window-Eyes Discussion List <talk@lists.window-eyes.com> Cc: Robert Ringwald <r...@ringwald.com> Subject: Re: Question About KNFB and camera. Thanks David. Very interesting. My one question is, if all I want to do with the KNFB program is decipher scanned PDF files that are already in my WLM email, will the KNFB reader read those internally with no camera or any other device needed? I have Win 10 and WLM 12 on a del PC. -Original Message- From: David via Talk Sent: Tuesday, November 28, 2017 2:16 PM To: Window-Eyes Discussion List Cc: David Subject: Re: Question About KNFB and camera. PDF documents, or any other file formats on your computer, are electronically stored information. Cameras cannot read electronic documents. They are such constructed, they need to "see" things in real, before they can do anything. All electronic formats, be it music, video, documents or just any blah-blah-blah, will have to be processed internally in the computer. To best illustrate things, may I suggest you think of the camera as the "eye" of the computer. Let's at the same time, tell the scanner to be the other "eye" of the PC. The CPU, (or processor), the RAM and any other electronic inside your computer's physical box - well, let's name it the brain. Even so, the hard disk or SSD, which we will compare to your "deep memory". As you well know, your physical eyes cannot "look" inside the brain, and perform anything from within your body. Rather, the eyes can feed the brain with information, which your brain now can process. Back to your query. You will need a camera to feed any written or physically visible information into the computer. Whatever has already been fed into the computer, like an electronically stored document, will be non-interesting for the camera, scanner or any further feeding equipment. All processing of what you have in your brain, will be done by the brain directly. All information already stored on your computer, will be processed directly by the computer, and loaded software. I know, you wanted a quick answer to your question. I just thought it might be helpful for you and others, to have a clarified comprehension of why the answer is the way it stands. To jhust elaborate a tiny bit here, let me in very short terms tell you how any OCR software works. First of all, it needs to retrieve some information. It will typically leave you the chance of defining whether it should grab some electronic document, or if it should contact an external piece of equipment - like a camera or a scanner. To the software, it basically does not matter whichever way you feed it with information. Next, it will start to process the information it has loaded into its memory. All such electronic information is made up of 0's and 1's, also known as pixels. And the software will compare the layout of these, with an internal dictionary. The dictionary will be like a tremendous collection of stencils. If the OCR finds that a set of dots (or pixels) in the received information matches any stencil in the dictionary, it will know what character this will represent. It now will "type" this character into a virtual document, thereby imitating you pressing a key on the keyboard. Finally, when it has finished the whole loaded information, it will present you with the virtually typed document. For your information, in old times, the stencil-lookup was pretty much a one-to-one comparison. That means, it would need a match that would be very close to the exact stenciled shape. If it was to recognize anything to be the letter O, it would need a set of pixels in a perfect circle. Modern OCR software has become far mor "inteligent", whatever we want to talk about inteligence when comes to silly electronic units like a computer. The inteligence is that the OCR no longer will depend on close to exact matches. To a very high degree, it might "look" at the properties of a scanned character, and base its recognition on the results thereof. For instance, it would conclude that a set
RE: Question About KNFB and camera.
Hi, Steve, How could you forget all that beta testing (grin). I really appreciate your contributions to this list. Thank you for taking the time again and again for thoughtfully answering people's questions. Cordially, Evelyn - Original Message - From: Steve Jacobson via Talk <talk@lists.window-eyes.com To: "'Window-Eyes Discussion List'" <talk@lists.window-eyes.com Date sent: Tue, 28 Nov 2017 21:13:23 -0600 Subject: RE: Question About KNFB and camera. Evelyn, You are, of course, correct, and while I did not own one I did beta test one. That device even had a separate camera even though they were strapped together so they could function like a single device. Thank you for the reminder. Best regards, Steve Jacobson -Original Message- From: evelyn weckerly [mailto:wecke...@i2k.com] Sent: Tuesday, November 28, 2017 7:27 PM To: steve.jacob...@visi.com; Window-Eyes Discussion List <talk@lists.window-eyes.com Subject: RE: Question About KNFB and camera. Hi, Steve, Just one little correction: The KNFBREADER Mobile started life on a PDA (personal digital assistant). I know because I owned it. I also still have the smartphone version, which was the second generation of it. I also have it on the Braille Note Touch-for free. Regards, Evelyn ___ Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared. For membership options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/wec kerly%40i2k.com. For subscription options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com List archives can be found at http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com ___ Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared. For membership options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/archive%40mail-archive.com. For subscription options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com List archives can be found at http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com
Re: Question About KNFB and camera.
with the KNFB program is >>> decipher scanned PDF files that are already in my WLM email, will >>> the KNFB reader read those internally with no camera or any other >>> device needed? >>> >>> I have Win 10 and WLM 12 on a del PC. >>> >>> >>> -Original Message- From: David via Talk >>> Sent: Tuesday, November 28, 2017 2:16 PM >>> To: Window-Eyes Discussion List >>> Cc: David >>> Subject: Re: Question About KNFB and camera. >>> >>> PDF documents, or any other file formats on your computer, are >>> electronically stored information. >>> >>> >>> Cameras cannot read electronic documents. They are such constructed, >>> they need to "see" things in real, before they can do anything. >>> >>> >>> All electronic formats, be it music, video, documents or just any >>> blah-blah-blah, will have to be processed internally in the computer. >>> >>> >>> To best illustrate things, may I suggest you think of the camera as the >>> "eye" of the computer. Let's at the same time, tell the scanner to be >>> the other "eye" of the PC. The CPU, (or processor), the RAM and any >>> other electronic inside your computer's physical box - well, let's name >>> it the brain. Even so, the hard disk or SSD, which we will compare to >>> your "deep memory". >>> >>> >>> As you well know, your physical eyes cannot "look" inside the brain, >>> and >>> perform anything from within your body. Rather, the eyes can feed the >>> brain with information, which your brain now can process. >>> >>> >>> Back to your query. You will need a camera to feed any written or >>> physically visible information into the computer. Whatever has already >>> been fed into the computer, like an electronically stored document, >>> will >>> be non-interesting for the camera, scanner or any further feeding >>> equipment. All processing of what you have in your brain, will be done >>> by the brain directly. All information already stored on your computer, >>> will be processed directly by the computer, and loaded software. >>> >>> >>> I know, you wanted a quick answer to your question. I just thought it >>> might be helpful for you and others, to have a clarified comprehension >>> of why the answer is the way it stands. >>> >>> >>> To jhust elaborate a tiny bit here, let me in very short terms tell you >>> how any OCR software works. >>> >>> First of all, it needs to retrieve some information. It will typically >>> leave you the chance of defining whether it should grab some electronic >>> document, or if it should contact an external piece of equipment - like >>> a camera or a scanner. To the software, it basically does not matter >>> whichever way you feed it with information. >>> >>> >>> Next, it will start to process the information it has loaded into its >>> memory. All such electronic information is made up of 0's and 1's, also >>> known as pixels. And the software will compare the layout of these, >>> with >>> an internal dictionary. The dictionary will be like a tremendous >>> collection of stencils. If the OCR finds that a set of dots (or pixels) >>> in the received information matches any stencil in the dictionary, it >>> will know what character this will represent. It now will "type" this >>> character into a virtual document, thereby imitating you pressing a key >>> on the keyboard. >>> >>> >>> Finally, when it has finished the whole loaded information, it will >>> present you with the virtually typed document. >>> >>> >>> For your information, in old times, the stencil-lookup was pretty >>> much a >>> one-to-one comparison. That means, it would need a match that would be >>> very close to the exact stenciled shape. If it was to recognize >>> anything >>> to be the letter O, it would need a set of pixels in a perfect circle. >>> >>> >>> Modern OCR software has become far mor "inteligent", whatever we >>> want to >>> talk about inteligence when comes to silly electronic units like a >>> computer. The inteligence is that the OCR no longer will depend on >>> close >>> to exact matches. To a very high degree, it might "look" at the >&g
Re: Question About KNFB and camera.
Joseph, You should know what you're talking about before disseminating incorrect information. The KNFB reader does not need a camera to read any of the file types it supports. They're files already on the computer. What are you going to do with a camera? You import the files into KNFB and it's just another image already created that the same process is performed on. Bob. Here's a link to the web site with the full documentation. https://knfbreader.com/knfb-reader-windows-10-complete-user-guide Good luck, Tom On 11/29/2017 12:57 AM, joseph hudson via Talk wrote: Hello, as I reported on another list, no I don't think so. It needs a camera to read files. Joseph Hudson Email jhud7...@gmail.com I device support Telephone 2543007667 Skype joseph.hudson89 facebook https://www.facebook.com/joseph.hudson.9404 Twitter https://twitter.com/josephhudson89 FaceTime/iMessage jhud7...@yahoo.com On Nov 28, 2017, at 9:33 PM, Robert Ringwald via Talk <talk@lists.window-eyes.com> wrote: Thanks David. Very interesting. My one question is, if all I want to do with the KNFB program is decipher scanned PDF files that are already in my WLM email, will the KNFB reader read those internally with no camera or any other device needed? I have Win 10 and WLM 12 on a del PC. -Original Message- From: David via Talk Sent: Tuesday, November 28, 2017 2:16 PM To: Window-Eyes Discussion List Cc: David Subject: Re: Question About KNFB and camera. PDF documents, or any other file formats on your computer, are electronically stored information. Cameras cannot read electronic documents. They are such constructed, they need to "see" things in real, before they can do anything. All electronic formats, be it music, video, documents or just any blah-blah-blah, will have to be processed internally in the computer. To best illustrate things, may I suggest you think of the camera as the "eye" of the computer. Let's at the same time, tell the scanner to be the other "eye" of the PC. The CPU, (or processor), the RAM and any other electronic inside your computer's physical box - well, let's name it the brain. Even so, the hard disk or SSD, which we will compare to your "deep memory". As you well know, your physical eyes cannot "look" inside the brain, and perform anything from within your body. Rather, the eyes can feed the brain with information, which your brain now can process. Back to your query. You will need a camera to feed any written or physically visible information into the computer. Whatever has already been fed into the computer, like an electronically stored document, will be non-interesting for the camera, scanner or any further feeding equipment. All processing of what you have in your brain, will be done by the brain directly. All information already stored on your computer, will be processed directly by the computer, and loaded software. I know, you wanted a quick answer to your question. I just thought it might be helpful for you and others, to have a clarified comprehension of why the answer is the way it stands. To jhust elaborate a tiny bit here, let me in very short terms tell you how any OCR software works. First of all, it needs to retrieve some information. It will typically leave you the chance of defining whether it should grab some electronic document, or if it should contact an external piece of equipment - like a camera or a scanner. To the software, it basically does not matter whichever way you feed it with information. Next, it will start to process the information it has loaded into its memory. All such electronic information is made up of 0's and 1's, also known as pixels. And the software will compare the layout of these, with an internal dictionary. The dictionary will be like a tremendous collection of stencils. If the OCR finds that a set of dots (or pixels) in the received information matches any stencil in the dictionary, it will know what character this will represent. It now will "type" this character into a virtual document, thereby imitating you pressing a key on the keyboard. Finally, when it has finished the whole loaded information, it will present you with the virtually typed document. For your information, in old times, the stencil-lookup was pretty much a one-to-one comparison. That means, it would need a match that would be very close to the exact stenciled shape. If it was to recognize anything to be the letter O, it would need a set of pixels in a perfect circle. Modern OCR software has become far mor "inteligent", whatever we want to talk about inteligence when comes to silly electronic units like a computer. The inteligence is that the OCR no longer will depend on close to exact matches. To a very high degree, it might "look" at the properties of a scanned character, and base its recognition on the results thereof. For instance, it would conclude that a se
Re: Question About KNFB and camera.
Hi Steve, I would bet, that it checks for a camera before you perform an action. Joseph Hudson Email jhud7...@gmail.com I device support Telephone 2543007667 Skype joseph.hudson89 facebook https://www.facebook.com/joseph.hudson.9404 Twitter https://twitter.com/josephhudson89 FaceTime/iMessage jhud7...@yahoo.com > On Nov 28, 2017, at 5:44 PM, Steve Jacobson via Talk > <talk@lists.window-eyes.com> wrote: > > Robert, > > Maybe you already know this, but the strength of the KNFB reader is to take a > picture of a document and turn it into text. It was originally designed to > be used on smart phones offering an extremely portable reading solution. It > is now available in Windows, but the idea was to be able to use the cameras > that are built into many laptops and tablets to allow reading of text. > Although I have not used it this way, it can apparently perform Optical > Character Recognition on PDF documents and other internal files which does > not involve using a camera. However, I do not know if the KNFB Reader checks > for a camera or not. It seems to me that back near the beginning of this > thread, you asked about whether it can read PDF's. Before you buy it to read > PDF's that don't contain text, check out the option in JAWS to do that now. > If you are on JAWS 18 or JAWS 2018, it is possible that you already have > something that will do what you need. > > Also, I don't have experience using it with an external camera as some of > mentioned here, but the experience has been that there is a resolution limit > that will really help OCR. I have heard a number somewhat lower than Josh > gave of 8MB, but his number is probably fine. The point is that it is not > the case that the higher the resolution the better the results. A point is > reached where there is more information provided than is useful. > > I hope this answers the question you were really trying to get at. Sometimes > we go all around the answer and never hit it directly. > > Best regards, > > Steve Jacobson > > > -Original Message- > From: Talk > [mailto:talk-bounces+steve.jacobson=visi@lists.window-eyes.com] On Behalf > Of Robert Ringwald via Talk > Sent: Tuesday, November 28, 2017 11:23 AM > To: Talk <talk@lists.window-eyes.com> > Cc: Robert Ringwald <r...@ringwald.com> > Subject: Question About KNFB and camera. > > I do not have a smart phone. In order to use the KNFB program to just read > PDF's on the computer, do I need a camera? Or can it be done internally > within the computer? > > Windows 10. > > > > > Bob Ringwald piano, Solo, Duo, Trio, Quartet, Quintet > Fulton Street Jazz Band (Dixieland/Swing) > 916/ 806-9551 > Check out my performing schedule: www.ringwald.com/schedule.php > Amateur (ham) Radio Station K6YBV > > “If you don't read the newspaper you are uninformed, > if you do read the newspaper you are misinformed.” -- Mark Twain > > > > --- > This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. > https://www.avast.com/antivirus > > ___ > Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author > and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared. > > For membership options, visit > http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/steve.jacobson%40visi.com. > For subscription options, visit > http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com > List archives can be found at > http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com > > ___ > Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author > and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared. > > For membership options, visit > http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/jhud7789%40twc.com. > For subscription options, visit > http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com > List archives can be found at > http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com ___ Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared. For membership options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/archive%40mail-archive.com. For subscription options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com List archives can be found at http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com
Re: Question About KNFB and camera.
Hello, as I reported on another list, no I don't think so. It needs a camera to read files. Joseph Hudson Email jhud7...@gmail.com I device support Telephone 2543007667 Skype joseph.hudson89 facebook https://www.facebook.com/joseph.hudson.9404 Twitter https://twitter.com/josephhudson89 FaceTime/iMessage jhud7...@yahoo.com > On Nov 28, 2017, at 9:33 PM, Robert Ringwald via Talk > <talk@lists.window-eyes.com> wrote: > > Thanks David. Very interesting. > > My one question is, if all I want to do with the KNFB program is decipher > scanned PDF files that are already in my WLM email, will the KNFB reader read > those internally with no camera or any other device needed? > > I have Win 10 and WLM 12 on a del PC. > > > -Original Message- From: David via Talk > Sent: Tuesday, November 28, 2017 2:16 PM > To: Window-Eyes Discussion List > Cc: David > Subject: Re: Question About KNFB and camera. > > PDF documents, or any other file formats on your computer, are > electronically stored information. > > > Cameras cannot read electronic documents. They are such constructed, > they need to "see" things in real, before they can do anything. > > > All electronic formats, be it music, video, documents or just any > blah-blah-blah, will have to be processed internally in the computer. > > > To best illustrate things, may I suggest you think of the camera as the > "eye" of the computer. Let's at the same time, tell the scanner to be > the other "eye" of the PC. The CPU, (or processor), the RAM and any > other electronic inside your computer's physical box - well, let's name > it the brain. Even so, the hard disk or SSD, which we will compare to > your "deep memory". > > > As you well know, your physical eyes cannot "look" inside the brain, and > perform anything from within your body. Rather, the eyes can feed the > brain with information, which your brain now can process. > > > Back to your query. You will need a camera to feed any written or > physically visible information into the computer. Whatever has already > been fed into the computer, like an electronically stored document, will > be non-interesting for the camera, scanner or any further feeding > equipment. All processing of what you have in your brain, will be done > by the brain directly. All information already stored on your computer, > will be processed directly by the computer, and loaded software. > > > I know, you wanted a quick answer to your question. I just thought it > might be helpful for you and others, to have a clarified comprehension > of why the answer is the way it stands. > > > To jhust elaborate a tiny bit here, let me in very short terms tell you > how any OCR software works. > > First of all, it needs to retrieve some information. It will typically > leave you the chance of defining whether it should grab some electronic > document, or if it should contact an external piece of equipment - like > a camera or a scanner. To the software, it basically does not matter > whichever way you feed it with information. > > > Next, it will start to process the information it has loaded into its > memory. All such electronic information is made up of 0's and 1's, also > known as pixels. And the software will compare the layout of these, with > an internal dictionary. The dictionary will be like a tremendous > collection of stencils. If the OCR finds that a set of dots (or pixels) > in the received information matches any stencil in the dictionary, it > will know what character this will represent. It now will "type" this > character into a virtual document, thereby imitating you pressing a key > on the keyboard. > > > Finally, when it has finished the whole loaded information, it will > present you with the virtually typed document. > > > For your information, in old times, the stencil-lookup was pretty much a > one-to-one comparison. That means, it would need a match that would be > very close to the exact stenciled shape. If it was to recognize anything > to be the letter O, it would need a set of pixels in a perfect circle. > > > Modern OCR software has become far mor "inteligent", whatever we want to > talk about inteligence when comes to silly electronic units like a > computer. The inteligence is that the OCR no longer will depend on close > to exact matches. To a very high degree, it might "look" at the > properties of a scanned character, and base its recognition on the > results thereof. For instance, it would conclude that a set of pixels > that resemble two parallel vertical lines, slightly spaced from each > other, with
RE: Question About KNFB and camera.
Robert, KNFB reader would do that if it doesn't check for a camera when it starts. There is a KNFB Readers' list, I'll see if anybody knows on that list. Best regards, Steve -Original Message- From: Talk [mailto:talk-bounces+steve.jacobson=visi@lists.window-eyes.com] On Behalf Of Robert Ringwald via Talk Sent: Tuesday, November 28, 2017 9:33 PM To: Window-Eyes Discussion List <talk@lists.window-eyes.com> Cc: Robert Ringwald <r...@ringwald.com> Subject: Re: Question About KNFB and camera. Thanks David. Very interesting. My one question is, if all I want to do with the KNFB program is decipher scanned PDF files that are already in my WLM email, will the KNFB reader read those internally with no camera or any other device needed? I have Win 10 and WLM 12 on a del PC. -Original Message- From: David via Talk Sent: Tuesday, November 28, 2017 2:16 PM To: Window-Eyes Discussion List Cc: David Subject: Re: Question About KNFB and camera. PDF documents, or any other file formats on your computer, are electronically stored information. Cameras cannot read electronic documents. They are such constructed, they need to "see" things in real, before they can do anything. All electronic formats, be it music, video, documents or just any blah-blah-blah, will have to be processed internally in the computer. To best illustrate things, may I suggest you think of the camera as the "eye" of the computer. Let's at the same time, tell the scanner to be the other "eye" of the PC. The CPU, (or processor), the RAM and any other electronic inside your computer's physical box - well, let's name it the brain. Even so, the hard disk or SSD, which we will compare to your "deep memory". As you well know, your physical eyes cannot "look" inside the brain, and perform anything from within your body. Rather, the eyes can feed the brain with information, which your brain now can process. Back to your query. You will need a camera to feed any written or physically visible information into the computer. Whatever has already been fed into the computer, like an electronically stored document, will be non-interesting for the camera, scanner or any further feeding equipment. All processing of what you have in your brain, will be done by the brain directly. All information already stored on your computer, will be processed directly by the computer, and loaded software. I know, you wanted a quick answer to your question. I just thought it might be helpful for you and others, to have a clarified comprehension of why the answer is the way it stands. To jhust elaborate a tiny bit here, let me in very short terms tell you how any OCR software works. First of all, it needs to retrieve some information. It will typically leave you the chance of defining whether it should grab some electronic document, or if it should contact an external piece of equipment - like a camera or a scanner. To the software, it basically does not matter whichever way you feed it with information. Next, it will start to process the information it has loaded into its memory. All such electronic information is made up of 0's and 1's, also known as pixels. And the software will compare the layout of these, with an internal dictionary. The dictionary will be like a tremendous collection of stencils. If the OCR finds that a set of dots (or pixels) in the received information matches any stencil in the dictionary, it will know what character this will represent. It now will "type" this character into a virtual document, thereby imitating you pressing a key on the keyboard. Finally, when it has finished the whole loaded information, it will present you with the virtually typed document. For your information, in old times, the stencil-lookup was pretty much a one-to-one comparison. That means, it would need a match that would be very close to the exact stenciled shape. If it was to recognize anything to be the letter O, it would need a set of pixels in a perfect circle. Modern OCR software has become far mor "inteligent", whatever we want to talk about inteligence when comes to silly electronic units like a computer. The inteligence is that the OCR no longer will depend on close to exact matches. To a very high degree, it might "look" at the properties of a scanned character, and base its recognition on the results thereof. For instance, it would conclude that a set of pixels that resemble two parallel vertical lines, slightly spaced from each other, with a horizontal line running just about mid-way up between the verticals - all in all will be interpreted as the capitalized letter H. Likewise, a vertical bar, with a tiny line pointing diagonally out from the upper left end, will likely be told to be the number 1. As you might understand, such propetary comparison will be more forgiving, than if you were to compare exact matches. You
RE: Question About KNFB and camera.
Evelyn, You are, of course, correct, and while I did not own one I did beta test one. That device even had a separate camera even though they were strapped together so they could function like a single device. Thank you for the reminder. Best regards, Steve Jacobson -Original Message- From: evelyn weckerly [mailto:wecke...@i2k.com] Sent: Tuesday, November 28, 2017 7:27 PM To: steve.jacob...@visi.com; Window-Eyes Discussion List <talk@lists.window-eyes.com> Subject: RE: Question About KNFB and camera. Hi, Steve, Just one little correction: The KNFBREADER Mobile started life on a PDA (personal digital assistant). I know because I owned it. I also still have the smartphone version, which was the second generation of it. I also have it on the Braille Note Touch-for free. Regards, Evelyn ___ Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared. For membership options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/archive%40mail-archive.com. For subscription options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com List archives can be found at http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com
RE: Question About KNFB and camera.
Hi, Steve, Just one little correction: The KNFBREADER Mobile started life on a PDA (personal digital assistant). I know because I owned it. I also still have the smartphone version, which was the second generation of it. I also have it on the Braille Note Touch-for free. Regards, Evelyn ___ Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared. For membership options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/archive%40mail-archive.com. For subscription options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com List archives can be found at http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com
RE: Question About KNFB and camera.
Robert, Maybe you already know this, but the strength of the KNFB reader is to take a picture of a document and turn it into text. It was originally designed to be used on smart phones offering an extremely portable reading solution. It is now available in Windows, but the idea was to be able to use the cameras that are built into many laptops and tablets to allow reading of text. Although I have not used it this way, it can apparently perform Optical Character Recognition on PDF documents and other internal files which does not involve using a camera. However, I do not know if the KNFB Reader checks for a camera or not. It seems to me that back near the beginning of this thread, you asked about whether it can read PDF's. Before you buy it to read PDF's that don't contain text, check out the option in JAWS to do that now. If you are on JAWS 18 or JAWS 2018, it is possible that you already have something that will do what you need. Also, I don't have experience using it with an external camera as some of mentioned here, but the experience has been that there is a resolution limit that will really help OCR. I have heard a number somewhat lower than Josh gave of 8MB, but his number is probably fine. The point is that it is not the case that the higher the resolution the better the results. A point is reached where there is more information provided than is useful. I hope this answers the question you were really trying to get at. Sometimes we go all around the answer and never hit it directly. Best regards, Steve Jacobson -Original Message- From: Talk [mailto:talk-bounces+steve.jacobson=visi@lists.window-eyes.com] On Behalf Of Robert Ringwald via Talk Sent: Tuesday, November 28, 2017 11:23 AM To: Talk <talk@lists.window-eyes.com> Cc: Robert Ringwald <r...@ringwald.com> Subject: Question About KNFB and camera. I do not have a smart phone. In order to use the KNFB program to just read PDF's on the computer, do I need a camera? Or can it be done internally within the computer? Windows 10. Bob Ringwald piano, Solo, Duo, Trio, Quartet, Quintet Fulton Street Jazz Band (Dixieland/Swing) 916/ 806-9551 Check out my performing schedule: www.ringwald.com/schedule.php Amateur (ham) Radio Station K6YBV “If you don't read the newspaper you are uninformed, if you do read the newspaper you are misinformed.” -- Mark Twain --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus ___ Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared. For membership options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/steve.jacobson%40visi.com. For subscription options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com List archives can be found at http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com ___ Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared. For membership options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/archive%40mail-archive.com. For subscription options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com List archives can be found at http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com
Re: Question About KNFB and camera.
PDF documents, or any other file formats on your computer, are electronically stored information. Cameras cannot read electronic documents. They are such constructed, they need to "see" things in real, before they can do anything. All electronic formats, be it music, video, documents or just any blah-blah-blah, will have to be processed internally in the computer. To best illustrate things, may I suggest you think of the camera as the "eye" of the computer. Let's at the same time, tell the scanner to be the other "eye" of the PC. The CPU, (or processor), the RAM and any other electronic inside your computer's physical box - well, let's name it the brain. Even so, the hard disk or SSD, which we will compare to your "deep memory". As you well know, your physical eyes cannot "look" inside the brain, and perform anything from within your body. Rather, the eyes can feed the brain with information, which your brain now can process. Back to your query. You will need a camera to feed any written or physically visible information into the computer. Whatever has already been fed into the computer, like an electronically stored document, will be non-interesting for the camera, scanner or any further feeding equipment. All processing of what you have in your brain, will be done by the brain directly. All information already stored on your computer, will be processed directly by the computer, and loaded software. I know, you wanted a quick answer to your question. I just thought it might be helpful for you and others, to have a clarified comprehension of why the answer is the way it stands. To jhust elaborate a tiny bit here, let me in very short terms tell you how any OCR software works. First of all, it needs to retrieve some information. It will typically leave you the chance of defining whether it should grab some electronic document, or if it should contact an external piece of equipment - like a camera or a scanner. To the software, it basically does not matter whichever way you feed it with information. Next, it will start to process the information it has loaded into its memory. All such electronic information is made up of 0's and 1's, also known as pixels. And the software will compare the layout of these, with an internal dictionary. The dictionary will be like a tremendous collection of stencils. If the OCR finds that a set of dots (or pixels) in the received information matches any stencil in the dictionary, it will know what character this will represent. It now will "type" this character into a virtual document, thereby imitating you pressing a key on the keyboard. Finally, when it has finished the whole loaded information, it will present you with the virtually typed document. For your information, in old times, the stencil-lookup was pretty much a one-to-one comparison. That means, it would need a match that would be very close to the exact stenciled shape. If it was to recognize anything to be the letter O, it would need a set of pixels in a perfect circle. Modern OCR software has become far mor "inteligent", whatever we want to talk about inteligence when comes to silly electronic units like a computer. The inteligence is that the OCR no longer will depend on close to exact matches. To a very high degree, it might "look" at the properties of a scanned character, and base its recognition on the results thereof. For instance, it would conclude that a set of pixels that resemble two parallel vertical lines, slightly spaced from each other, with a horizontal line running just about mid-way up between the verticals - all in all will be interpreted as the capitalized letter H. Likewise, a vertical bar, with a tiny line pointing diagonally out from the upper left end, will likely be told to be the number 1. As you might understand, such propetary comparison will be more forgiving, than if you were to compare exact matches. You no longer need to define how high the character can be, or what the width should be. The OCR can "see" this is the number 9, big or small print, simply by recognizing the shape and other properties of the character. This is one of the reasons, modern OCR can perform high degrees of faultless recognition. In the old days of the 80's, often a number 9, and the lower-case G, would be confusingly recognized as either, due to the fact that they quite much would resemble similar pixel-patterns. to improve the OCR recognition, modern OCR software further will hold comprehensive dictionaries for spelling, in several languages. It is considered very little likely, that any word in English would be: log9ing, so the OCR will recognize this as if it was a common typo, and replace the 9 with a g, making the word: logging, which happens to be a validly spelled English word. Since they now aday do propetary stencilized OCR, they also can perform recognition of hand-writing. At least, to a certain
RE: Question About KNFB and camera.
To read pdf’s you do not need a camera. Sent from Mail for Windows 10 From: Robert Ringwald via Talk Sent: Tuesday, November 28, 2017 12:25 To: Talk Cc: Robert Ringwald Subject: Question About KNFB and camera. I do not have a smart phone. In order to use the KNFB program to just read PDF's on the computer, do I need a camera? Or can it be done internally within the computer? Windows 10. Bob Ringwald piano, Solo, Duo, Trio, Quartet, Quintet Fulton Street Jazz Band (Dixieland/Swing) 916/ 806-9551 Check out my performing schedule: www.ringwald.com/schedule.php Amateur (ham) Radio Station K6YBV “If you don't read the newspaper you are uninformed, if you do read the newspaper you are misinformed.” -- Mark Twain --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus ___ Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared. For membership options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/joshuakennedy201%40comcast.net. For subscription options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com List archives can be found at http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com ___ Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared. For membership options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/archive%40mail-archive.com. For subscription options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com List archives can be found at http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com
Question About KNFB and camera.
I do not have a smart phone. In order to use the KNFB program to just read PDF's on the computer, do I need a camera? Or can it be done internally within the computer? Windows 10. Bob Ringwald piano, Solo, Duo, Trio, Quartet, Quintet Fulton Street Jazz Band (Dixieland/Swing) 916/ 806-9551 Check out my performing schedule: www.ringwald.com/schedule.php Amateur (ham) Radio Station K6YBV “If you don't read the newspaper you are uninformed, if you do read the newspaper you are misinformed.” -- Mark Twain --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus ___ Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared. For membership options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/archive%40mail-archive.com. For subscription options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com List archives can be found at http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com
