RE: New standard keyboard coming to Narrator
I did the same thing. Tried Jaws and I didn't like it. Figured if I had to learn a new screen reader, might as well be n v d a. I still use window-eyes as much as I czn, but run n v d a when needed. I havee given a bit of thought to going to the dark side, but I think I'm to old to learn a new o s and a new screen reader. And of course, no local help at all. 73 Butch WA0VJR Node 3148 Wallace, ks. On Sat, 16 Jun 2018, Rod Hutton via Talk wrote: Hi Brice, Funny, I am running Windows 10 build 1803 and am having no problems using Window-Eyes 9.5.4. I had a single WE SMA and took the Jaws conversion. I used it for a bit, got comfortable with Jaws and got fed up with its complexity. I prefer NVDA when I need it for the web but, yes, Narrator is a great alternative. I could pursue Jaws if I need to sme day, but, indeed, since I also have a Macbook Pro, it'll probably be a snowy day in July up here in Canada before I pay for Jaws. Sorry you spent good money for a bloated screen reader, but, what the hell, you live and you learn. Take care, Rod Sent from Outlook for Windows -Original Message- From: Talk On Behalf Of brice Mijares via Talk Sent: June 14, 2018 2:30 PM To: brice Mijares via Talk Cc: brice Mijares Subject: Re: New standard keyboard coming to Narrator I bet this is going to put the big hurt to JAWS! Last year I did the Migration to JAWS and even paid for the 2 upgrades. Big mistake on my partv, probably didn't give it more than 5 hours trying to learn it. Went to NVDA, and Narrator at times. Finally removed Window Eyes a few weeks ago, it was becoming useless in Windows ten. This new keyboard layout using Narrator sounds real promising. ___ Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared. For membership options, visit https://nam01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Flists.window-eyes.com%2Foptions.cgi%2Ftalk-window-eyes.com%2Frod_hutton%2540hotmail.com=02%7C01%7C%7Cadb8f3729e484006d45608d5d224d61f%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0%7C636645978009191770=Rfv00jxw%2Bx3EcM0epql2GzY8%2FI8fnlbsqK2je2nzR1Q%3D=0. For subscription options, visit https://nam01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Flists.window-eyes.com%2Flistinfo.cgi%2Ftalk-window-eyes.com=02%7C01%7C%7Cadb8f3729e484006d45608d5d224d61f%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0%7C636645978009191770=wW6W8kH58XBh6xeGxoSlk1uRiAq0Sxi92n%2B9NP1ZiqY%3D=0 List archives can be found at https://nam01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Flists.window-eyes.com%2Fprivate.cgi%2Ftalk-window-eyes.com=02%7C01%7C%7Cadb8f3729e484006d45608d5d224d61f%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0%7C636645978009191770=8iPS4bF7RStqwcYHr0Uk0H6mweHcvEtJVN8J4HAYcGw%3D=0 ___ Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared. For membership options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/butchb%40shellworld.net. For subscription options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com List archives can be found at http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com ___ Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared. For membership options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/archive%40mail-archive.com. For subscription options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com List archives can be found at http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com
RE: New standard keyboard coming to Narrator
Hi Brice, Funny, I am running Windows 10 build 1803 and am having no problems using Window-Eyes 9.5.4. I had a single WE SMA and took the Jaws conversion. I used it for a bit, got comfortable with Jaws and got fed up with its complexity. I prefer NVDA when I need it for the web but, yes, Narrator is a great alternative. I could pursue Jaws if I need to sme day, but, indeed, since I also have a Macbook Pro, it'll probably be a snowy day in July up here in Canada before I pay for Jaws. Sorry you spent good money for a bloated screen reader, but, what the hell, you live and you learn. Take care, Rod Sent from Outlook for Windows -Original Message- From: Talk On Behalf Of brice Mijares via Talk Sent: June 14, 2018 2:30 PM To: brice Mijares via Talk Cc: brice Mijares Subject: Re: New standard keyboard coming to Narrator I bet this is going to put the big hurt to JAWS! Last year I did the Migration to JAWS and even paid for the 2 upgrades. Big mistake on my partv, probably didn't give it more than 5 hours trying to learn it. Went to NVDA, and Narrator at times. Finally removed Window Eyes a few weeks ago, it was becoming useless in Windows ten. This new keyboard layout using Narrator sounds real promising. ___ Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared. For membership options, visit https://nam01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Flists.window-eyes.com%2Foptions.cgi%2Ftalk-window-eyes.com%2Frod_hutton%2540hotmail.com=02%7C01%7C%7Cadb8f3729e484006d45608d5d224d61f%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0%7C636645978009191770=Rfv00jxw%2Bx3EcM0epql2GzY8%2FI8fnlbsqK2je2nzR1Q%3D=0. For subscription options, visit https://nam01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Flists.window-eyes.com%2Flistinfo.cgi%2Ftalk-window-eyes.com=02%7C01%7C%7Cadb8f3729e484006d45608d5d224d61f%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0%7C636645978009191770=wW6W8kH58XBh6xeGxoSlk1uRiAq0Sxi92n%2B9NP1ZiqY%3D=0 List archives can be found at https://nam01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Flists.window-eyes.com%2Fprivate.cgi%2Ftalk-window-eyes.com=02%7C01%7C%7Cadb8f3729e484006d45608d5d224d61f%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0%7C636645978009191770=8iPS4bF7RStqwcYHr0Uk0H6mweHcvEtJVN8J4HAYcGw%3D=0 ___ Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared. For membership options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/archive%40mail-archive.com. For subscription options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com List archives can be found at http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com
RE: New standard keyboard coming to Narrator
At 08:42 PM 6/14/2018, Darrell Bowles via Talk wrote: >I'm reading this message, and I want to jump for joy. I'm obviously >not going to upgrade to the insider build, as this is my only system, I actually wouldn't mind upgrading to the latest insider preview if I could. After a recent hard drive crash and clean Windows installation, I managed to rejoin the insider preview program as I had done since Windows 10 came out. But this time, although my device is apparently set to receive insider builds, I cannot select my content, branch or pace. I have to use the Jaws touch cursor to navigate the insider preview dialogue. Apparently, this is a known bug, that insider users running a certain build can't change their insider settings. So now, rather than active development of Windows, I'm set only for prereleases. Meanwhile, on my laptop, I have the latest insider build ready to go, but it's unable to install. The installation reaches around 20%, then the laptop restarts running the previous build. I've of course deleted the directory where the preview installation files get saved, in hopes of downloading a fresh copy. But even those fresh copies won't install. Strangely enough, I don't get any error messages about these installation failures. So, the long and short of it is that I'm salivating about the new Narrator keyboard layout, but unable to try it. If I leave the insider preview program and roll back to Windows Creator Edition, build 1803, it's pretty much the same as reinstalling. Windows would retain all my data, but all my apps would have to be reinstalled. Having just been through that twice in one week, I'm not excited about doing it again. This email is definitely more long-winded and verbose than I usually write. But I'm definitely frustrated about the insider preview nonsense. The Microsoft disability desk doesn't support insider previews, even though Microsoft makes and releases them. Their technicians insist on calling them "not fully functional Windows versions". I've scowered Google for possible answers and have come up empty handed. Does anyone have any suggestions? Many thanks, Orlando Enrique Fiol ___ Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared. For membership options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/archive%40mail-archive.com. For subscription options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com List archives can be found at http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com
RE: New standard keyboard coming to Narrator
I'm reading this message, and I want to jump for joy. I'm obviously not going to upgrade to the insider build, as this is my only system, but this is absolutely huge. I don't know what else Microsoft narrator will do, but this at least puts it on level with Voiceover. Actually, it's ahead of Voiceover, because Microsoft continues to work with braille. I really don't want to see Microsoft just stop developing narrator at this point. I would like to see narrator work with other browsers such as chrome and firefox. Thanks, Darrell -Original Message- From: Talk On Behalf Of brice Mijares via Talk Sent: Thursday, June 14, 2018 2:13 PM To: Window-Eyes Discussion List Cc: brice Mijares Subject: New standard keyboard coming to Narrator Welcome to your new Narrator keyboard layout (June 2018) The Narrator team is pleased to announce some major changes to the way that you interact with Narrator. We wanted to make it easier for you to learn and use Narrator, so we’re building on the knowledge you may have acquired using other screen readers. In this release, we’re introducing the new Standard keyboard layout for Narrator. We’re bringing these changes to Insider builds, and we want your feedback. Here are some highlights: Narrator now lets you use either the Caps lock or Insert keys as your Narrator modifier key. So, from now on, we’ll refer to these modifier keys as the Narrator key. The Change View commands have been updated. Change View commands are now mapped to the Narrator key + Page up and Page down keys. You can also use Change View by pressing Narrator key + Control + Up arrow and Down arrow. Move Next and Move Previous haven’t changed. Scan Mode’s Primary and Secondary Action commands have changed. Primary Action can be executed by pressing Enter or Spacebar. You can complete Secondary Action by simply adding a Shift key to each of those keys (Shift + Enter or Shift + Spacebar). You’ll see this change regardless of the keyboard layout you select. Narrator’s page, paragraph, line, word and character commands have been changed in our new Standard keyboard layout. In addition, many of Narrator’s commands have been moved to be more mnemonic. Some have also been moved to align to keystrokes that are more familiar to screen reader users. You can now use the numeric keypad to issue Narrator commands. We’ll talk more about this later. We’ve added a few new commands for Narrator, including List of Links, List of Headings, List of Landmarks and Narrator Find. Several new Scan Mode keyboard commands have been added to allow you to select text. Several of Narrator’s keyboard commands for moving to Links, Headings, and Tables have been deprecated from the Standard keyboard layout. These commands are still available in Scan Mode and Change View. We’ve also deprecated the ”Move to last item in containing area” command. To keep your keyboard layout the same, go to Settings > Ease of Access > Narrator, and choose the Legacy layout. This will revert Narrator to the experience that shipped in the Windows April 2018 release. Please note that new Narrator commands in this release will not be available in the Legacy keyboard layout if keystrokes for legacy commands conflict with those used in our new Narrator features. Keep reading to learn more about these changes The upgrade experience When you upgrade to this version of Windows and turn on Narrator, a dialog will pop up that gives you some information about the changes we’ve made to the Narrator keyboard. Check the box next to “Do not show this again” if you don’t want to see it again. The Narrator key In this release, we’ve made some changes to the Narrator modifier key. We’ll refer to it as the Narrator key throughout Narrator settings and in documentation going forward. By default, the Caps lock and Insert keys will be available as your Narrator key. If you’re using a 106 Japanese keyboard, then the NonConvert and Insert keys can be used as your Narrator key. This is a change from prior releases where the Control and Alt keys were used as Narrator’s modifier keys. Narrator settings changes We’ve added a new heading in Narrator settings called “Choose keyboard settings.” You can get to it in Scan Mode by using the H key to move to the heading. You’ll find these settings there: Select keyboard layout This setting allows you to select your Narrator keyboard layout. By default, the Standard keyboard layout is selected. If you want to return to the keyboard layout from the April 2018 release, select the Legacy layout. Note: You can select the “Learn about the different Narrator keyboard layouts” link to learn more about the changes to the Narrator keyboard. In the Windows Insider build you are testing this link will send you to the current public-facing Narrator user guide. The documentation you’re reading now will be merged into the Narrator user guide when we ship the final release later
Re: New standard keyboard coming to Narrator
WOW--thank you! Trish -Original Message- From: brice Mijares via Talk Sent: Thursday, June 14, 2018 1:13 PM To: Window-Eyes Discussion List Cc: brice Mijares Subject: New standard keyboard coming to Narrator Welcome to your new Narrator keyboard layout (June 2018) The Narrator team is pleased to announce some major changes to the way that you interact with Narrator. We wanted to make it easier for you to learn and use Narrator, so we’re building on the knowledge you may have acquired using other screen readers. In this release, we’re introducing the new Standard keyboard layout for Narrator. We’re bringing these changes to Insider builds, and we want your feedback. Here are some highlights: Narrator now lets you use either the Caps lock or Insert keys as your Narrator modifier key. So, from now on, we’ll refer to these modifier keys as the Narrator key. The Change View commands have been updated. Change View commands are now mapped to the Narrator key + Page up and Page down keys. You can also use Change View by pressing Narrator key + Control + Up arrow and Down arrow. Move Next and Move Previous haven’t changed. Scan Mode’s Primary and Secondary Action commands have changed. Primary Action can be executed by pressing Enter or Spacebar. You can complete Secondary Action by simply adding a Shift key to each of those keys (Shift + Enter or Shift + Spacebar). You’ll see this change regardless of the keyboard layout you select. Narrator’s page, paragraph, line, word and character commands have been changed in our new Standard keyboard layout. In addition, many of Narrator’s commands have been moved to be more mnemonic. Some have also been moved to align to keystrokes that are more familiar to screen reader users. You can now use the numeric keypad to issue Narrator commands. We’ll talk more about this later. We’ve added a few new commands for Narrator, including List of Links, List of Headings, List of Landmarks and Narrator Find. Several new Scan Mode keyboard commands have been added to allow you to select text. Several of Narrator’s keyboard commands for moving to Links, Headings, and Tables have been deprecated from the Standard keyboard layout. These commands are still available in Scan Mode and Change View. We’ve also deprecated the ”Move to last item in containing area” command. To keep your keyboard layout the same, go to Settings > Ease of Access > Narrator, and choose the Legacy layout. This will revert Narrator to the experience that shipped in the Windows April 2018 release. Please note that new Narrator commands in this release will not be available in the Legacy keyboard layout if keystrokes for legacy commands conflict with those used in our new Narrator features. Keep reading to learn more about these changes The upgrade experience When you upgrade to this version of Windows and turn on Narrator, a dialog will pop up that gives you some information about the changes we’ve made to the Narrator keyboard. Check the box next to “Do not show this again” if you don’t want to see it again. The Narrator key In this release, we’ve made some changes to the Narrator modifier key. We’ll refer to it as the Narrator key throughout Narrator settings and in documentation going forward. By default, the Caps lock and Insert keys will be available as your Narrator key. If you’re using a 106 Japanese keyboard, then the NonConvert and Insert keys can be used as your Narrator key. This is a change from prior releases where the Control and Alt keys were used as Narrator’s modifier keys. Narrator settings changes We’ve added a new heading in Narrator settings called “Choose keyboard settings.” You can get to it in Scan Mode by using the H key to move to the heading. You’ll find these settings there: Select keyboard layout This setting allows you to select your Narrator keyboard layout. By default, the Standard keyboard layout is selected. If you want to return to the keyboard layout from the April 2018 release, select the Legacy layout. Note: You can select the “Learn about the different Narrator keyboard layouts” link to learn more about the changes to the Narrator keyboard. In the Windows Insider build you are testing this link will send you to the current public-facing Narrator user guide. The documentation you’re reading now will be merged into the Narrator user guide when we ship the final release later this year. Select Narrator modifier key This setting allows you to determine the keys used as Narrator’s modifier key. The following options are available: Caps lock and Insert (the default setting) Insert Caps lock If you’re using a 106 Japanese keyboard, the settings will be: NonConvert and Insert (the default setting) Convert Insert NonConvert Note: If you choose the Legacy keyboard layout, this setting won’t be available. The Caps lock key will be available and the Ctrl + Alt Narrator key modifier will be used for Japanese keyboard users when in the Legacy keyboard layout. The Standard keyboard
Re: New standard keyboard coming to Narrator
I bet this is going to put the big hurt to JAWS! Last year I did the Migration to JAWS and even paid for the 2 upgrades. Big mistake on my partv, probably didn't give it more than 5 hours trying to learn it. Went to NVDA, and Narrator at times. Finally removed Window Eyes a few weeks ago, it was becoming useless in Windows ten. This new keyboard layout using Narrator sounds real promising. ___ Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Ai Squared. For membership options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/options.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com/archive%40mail-archive.com. For subscription options, visit http://lists.window-eyes.com/listinfo.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com List archives can be found at http://lists.window-eyes.com/private.cgi/talk-window-eyes.com
