Re: [OSM-talk] How to tag small city alley ?

[Paul Johnson]

Greg Troxel wrote:
>   I'd agree that service isn't quite right, if that's the front of the
>   buildings. But similarly residential isn't right either (I guess we all
>   think of that as something with pavements/sidewalks).

highway=unclassified for now (and throw a fixme= tag explaining the
situation on for good measure)



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Re: [OSM-talk] How to tag small city alley ?

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

2009/5/28 Richard Mann :
> I'd agree that service isn't quite right, if that's the front of the
> buildings. But similarly residential isn't right either (I guess we all
> think of that as something with pavements/sidewalks).

residential don't have to have pavements, but the width should be at
least for one car.

> So is there any objection to highway=pedestrian+bicycle=yes+motorcycle=yes?

sounds good to me. Even if motorcycles are allowed there, they
probably have to move slower than on broader roads.

Martin

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Re: [OSM-talk] How to tag small city alley ?

[Greg Troxel]

  I'd agree that service isn't quite right, if that's the front of the
  buildings. But similarly residential isn't right either (I guess we all
  think of that as something with pavements/sidewalks).

residential doesn't imply sidewalks in my area

  So is there any objection to highway=pedestrian+bicycle=yes+motorcycle=yes?

I think the real issue is that these ways are what one would call
"public rights of way" in the UK, or "public ways" in the US, and one
can legally walk on them for no apparent reason, but they don't allow
cars.  If that's true, then it probably should be highway=residential
with car=no but I think what this is all pointing out is that our road
tagging is very car centric.  Perhaps we just need a
motorized-4-wheels=no somehow.



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[OSM-legal-talk] Question

[oetti81]

> Dear all,
> 
> Does “incorporating it into something else” include adding extra layers of 
> info over the top, as in a map mashup?
> 
> Sorry i havnt found it in the historical Q&A s.
> 
> thank you very much already

> Chris

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Re: [OSM-talk] SOTM Scholarship Recipients Announced

[Mikel Maron]

One more!

Nic Roets from Johannesburg, South Africa

Sorry Nic, bad cut-n-paste!




From: Mikel Maron 
To: talk@openstreetmap.org
Sent: Thursday, May 28, 2009 1:19:24 PM
Subject: [OSM-talk] SOTM Scholarship Recipients Announced


http://www.opengeodata.org/?p=496


Congratulations to the 15 scholarship recipients. We had 35
nominations, from 19 countries, so no easy choice. Thanks to all the
nominations .. we hope you can all attend as well. 
Will be extremely great to have all these mappers together in Amsterdam!
* Abdel Hassan from Cairo, Egypt 
* Anas Maraqa from Palestinian West Bank 
* Anatolie Golovco from Moldova 
* Arun Ganesh from Chennai, India 
* Asif Rasul from Punjab, Pakistan 
* Ciprian Talaba from   Romania 
* Claudomiro Nascimento Jr from Brazil 
* Eugene Alvin Villar from Manila, Phillippines 
* Freddy Rivera fromColombia 
* Giorgi Gujabidze from Tbilisi, Georgia 
* H.S. Rai from Punjab, India 
* Jorge Luis BATISTA Echevarría from Havana, Cuba 
* Julio Zambelli from Vina del Mar, Chile 
* Khanh Le Ngoc Quoc from Vietnam 
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[OSM-talk] SOTM Scholarship Recipients Announced

[Mikel Maron]

http://www.opengeodata.org/?p=496


Congratulations to the 15 scholarship recipients. We had 35
nominations, from 19 countries, so no easy choice. Thanks to all the
nominations .. we hope you can all attend as well. 
Will be extremely great to have all these mappers together in Amsterdam!
* Abdel Hassan from Cairo, Egypt 
* Anas Maraqa from Palestinian West Bank 
* Anatolie Golovco from Moldova 
* Arun Ganesh from Chennai, India 
* Asif Rasul from Punjab, Pakistan 
* Ciprian Talaba from   Romania 
* Claudomiro Nascimento Jr from Brazil 
* Eugene Alvin Villar from Manila, Phillippines 
* Freddy Rivera fromColombia 
* Giorgi Gujabidze from Tbilisi, Georgia 
* H.S. Rai from Punjab, India 
* Jorge Luis BATISTA Echevarría from Havana, Cuba 
* Julio Zambelli from Vina del Mar, Chile 
* Khanh Le Ngoc Quoc from Vietnam 
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[OSM-talk] Public Transport Workshop

[Jochen Topf]

Hi!

The weekend before last we had a workshop in Karlsruhe, Germany on the
topic of public transport in OSM. The idea was to bring interested
people together to improve the modelling of public transport
infrastructure and networks in OSM. 

The results have now been documented. See
http://blog.geofabrik.de/?p=23 for details.

Jochen
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Re: [OSM-talk] OSM Server Side Script

[Gary68]

good work, roland. seems like a lot of useful work to me.

thanks

gerhard
gary68



On Thu, 2009-05-28 at 17:47 +0200, Roland Olbricht wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> the project I've been working on the last few month now into some kind of 
> beta 
> status. So I you would like a reverse gazetter or a download an area of the 
> size of a city, have a look at
> 
> http://78.46.81.38
> 
> In particular, this might be relevant to the topic "Advanced multipolygons - 
> do we need area types? How well are they supported?" of the London Hack 
> Weekend
> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/London_Hack_Weekend
> 
> The idea behind the story is to have a server where one can obtain derived 
> data as a web service. Areas are a standard example of that kind of things: 
> the borders are as ways of use on their own, but they also define the area.
> In the OSM database, you find only the borders represented as ways and a 
> relation declaring which borders constitute a certain area. So every 
> application must figure out the areas on its own and has to rewrite the code 
> and spent possibly substantial computation time (think of calculating a 
> nation's borders on a mobile phone) on that. That's where the OSM Server Side 
> Script server comes into the game: the derived data gets accessible to any 
> application just with a single query, and the mappers still only need to edit 
> and declare the independent data.
> 
> And even the rules can be edited by the user as explained in documentation:
> http://78.46.81.38/#section.rule_example
> 
> So in the long term, we may also do things like preparing the data for 
> routing, deriving "residental areas" as desired here
> http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/dev/2009-February/014175.html
> or apply the machine readable version of the wiki as proposed here
> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Machine-readable_Map_Feature_list
> to detect conflicting objects in the database.
> 
> There's a lot of work to do left. So I would like to get some feedback what 
> to 
> do first. And maybe there's even somebody who would like to join the 
> project :)
> 
> Some issues I see so far
> 
> features:
> * A spatially intrinsic query for ways: At the moment, you only can query for 
> nodes and then get the back references to get the data for an area. However, 
> this would not include ways that cross an area without having a node inside 
> of it. So this enhancement of the area-query would make it possible to 
> include also those ways.
> * Mixed queries with spatial and tag-based criteria: an example would be to 
> find all motorways in Germany.
> * Restriction of the output: If the size of the data is relevant (think of a 
> mobile phone as a client), the server could omit certain useless tags (like 
> the frequent "created_by" tag to reduce file size or processing complexity.
> * Or other things that come into your mind ...
> 
> basics:
> * Proceed with the documentation: at the moment, the documentation is reduced 
> to the essential things. And I don't even know whether the documentation is 
> helpful or not.
> * Make the source code of the server accessible: The code is a bunch of C++ 
> source files along with some bash scripts. It is quite a mess at the moment. 
> And I'm even not sure whether I should place it in the OSM SVN or not.
> 
> I would be grateful for every kind of feedback.
> 
> Cheers,
> Roland
> 
> ___
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[OSM-talk] OSM Server Side Script

[Roland Olbricht]

Hello,

the project I've been working on the last few month now into some kind of beta 
status. So I you would like a reverse gazetter or a download an area of the 
size of a city, have a look at

http://78.46.81.38

In particular, this might be relevant to the topic "Advanced multipolygons - 
do we need area types? How well are they supported?" of the London Hack 
Weekend
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/London_Hack_Weekend

The idea behind the story is to have a server where one can obtain derived 
data as a web service. Areas are a standard example of that kind of things: 
the borders are as ways of use on their own, but they also define the area.
In the OSM database, you find only the borders represented as ways and a 
relation declaring which borders constitute a certain area. So every 
application must figure out the areas on its own and has to rewrite the code 
and spent possibly substantial computation time (think of calculating a 
nation's borders on a mobile phone) on that. That's where the OSM Server Side 
Script server comes into the game: the derived data gets accessible to any 
application just with a single query, and the mappers still only need to edit 
and declare the independent data.

And even the rules can be edited by the user as explained in documentation:
http://78.46.81.38/#section.rule_example

So in the long term, we may also do things like preparing the data for 
routing, deriving "residental areas" as desired here
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/dev/2009-February/014175.html
or apply the machine readable version of the wiki as proposed here
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Machine-readable_Map_Feature_list
to detect conflicting objects in the database.

There's a lot of work to do left. So I would like to get some feedback what to 
do first. And maybe there's even somebody who would like to join the 
project :)

Some issues I see so far

features:
* A spatially intrinsic query for ways: At the moment, you only can query for 
nodes and then get the back references to get the data for an area. However, 
this would not include ways that cross an area without having a node inside 
of it. So this enhancement of the area-query would make it possible to 
include also those ways.
* Mixed queries with spatial and tag-based criteria: an example would be to 
find all motorways in Germany.
* Restriction of the output: If the size of the data is relevant (think of a 
mobile phone as a client), the server could omit certain useless tags (like 
the frequent "created_by" tag to reduce file size or processing complexity.
* Or other things that come into your mind ...

basics:
* Proceed with the documentation: at the moment, the documentation is reduced 
to the essential things. And I don't even know whether the documentation is 
helpful or not.
* Make the source code of the server accessible: The code is a bunch of C++ 
source files along with some bash scripts. It is quite a mess at the moment. 
And I'm even not sure whether I should place it in the OSM SVN or not.

I would be grateful for every kind of feedback.

Cheers,
Roland

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Re: [OSM-talk] How to tag small city alley ?

[Pieren]

On Thu, May 28, 2009 at 3:42 PM, Frank Sautter
 wrote:
> so highway=service has no meaning about public accessability. this is
> done using the access tag.
> highway=service just means this is a road that is not as wide as a
> highway=residential.
>

No, the definition does not say anything about the width as well. It
describes service roads, that's all.
You could use width=x or narrow=yes combined with highway=pedestrian.

Pieren

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[OSM-talk] State of the Map 2009 Schedules Released

[Nick Black]

Hello,
After a lot of schedule crunching, the provisional schedule for the State of
the Map 2009 is now available in a first pass form.  This is mainly so that
speakers can check their talks and scheduling:

http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=r4WraCgENoOek3Vs4ft0y2g&output=html

There were a record breaking 62 talks submitted this year - almost twice the
number of talks submitted in previous years.  All of the talks were really
high quality and many have a different focus to talks in previous years.

With so many talks submitted this year, we're having two tracks, as well as
workshops.  You can find a provisional schedule here (click on "Look for
More"): http://www.stateofthemap.org/schedules/ .  You can grab XML & iCAL
feed and mash-up for fun or profit ;-)  More details will be added to the
schedules over the next few weeks.

If you haven't signed up for the State of the Map yet, you can get you
tickets here: http://www.stateofthemap.org/register/


-- 
Nick Black
twitter.com/nick_b
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Re: [OSM-talk] How to tag small city alley ?

[Richard Mann]

I'd agree that service isn't quite right, if that's the front of the
buildings. But similarly residential isn't right either (I guess we all
think of that as something with pavements/sidewalks).

So is there any objection to highway=pedestrian+bicycle=yes+motorcycle=yes?

Richard

On Thu, May 28, 2009 at 2:55 PM, Ben Laenen  wrote:

> On Thursday 28 May 2009, you wrote:
> > Ben Laenen wrote:
> > > It's clearly a public road so you shouldn't use highway=service
> > > here.
> >
> > http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Highway says about
> > highway=service: "Generally for access to a building, motorway
> > service station, beach, campsite, industrial estate, business park,
> > etc.. This is also commonly used for access to parking and trash
> > collection. Sometimes called an alley, particularly in the US."
> >
> > so highway=service has no meaning about public accessability. this is
> > done using the access tag.
> > highway=service just means this is a road that is not as wide as a
> > highway=residential.
>
> So give me the reference to "width" in that description.
>
> All examples given there talk about a special road built to get you to
> some place or a building, and if you wouldn't need to go to that place
> or building you simply wouldn't go there (and most examples would be
> privately owned roads anyway). The street from the picture that started
> the discussion showed a road with probably quite a bit of
> through-traffic (motorcycles, mopeds, cyclists and pedestrians), and
> that's what I mean with the word "public" there. It handles traffic
> that doesn't have to be there. And that's the point where you can't use
> highway=service anymore.
>
> Ben
>
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Re: [OSM-talk] How to tag small city alley ?

[Ben Laenen]

On Thursday 28 May 2009, you wrote:
> Ben Laenen wrote:
> > It's clearly a public road so you shouldn't use highway=service
> > here.
>
> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Highway says about
> highway=service: "Generally for access to a building, motorway
> service station, beach, campsite, industrial estate, business park,
> etc.. This is also commonly used for access to parking and trash
> collection. Sometimes called an alley, particularly in the US."
>
> so highway=service has no meaning about public accessability. this is
> done using the access tag.
> highway=service just means this is a road that is not as wide as a
> highway=residential.

So give me the reference to "width" in that description.

All examples given there talk about a special road built to get you to 
some place or a building, and if you wouldn't need to go to that place 
or building you simply wouldn't go there (and most examples would be 
privately owned roads anyway). The street from the picture that started 
the discussion showed a road with probably quite a bit of 
through-traffic (motorcycles, mopeds, cyclists and pedestrians), and 
that's what I mean with the word "public" there. It handles traffic 
that doesn't have to be there. And that's the point where you can't use 
highway=service anymore.

Ben

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[OSM-talk] RFC : landuse=salt_pond for artificial Salt evaporation ponds

[sly (sylvain letuffe)]

http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Salt_Pond

-- 
sly 
Sylvain Letuffe li...@letuffe.org
qui suis-je : http://slyserv.dyndns.org




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Re: [OSM-talk] How to tag small city alley ?

[Frank Sautter]

Ben Laenen wrote:
> It's clearly a public road so you shouldn't use highway=service here.

http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Highway says about highway=service:
"Generally for access to a building, motorway service station, beach,
campsite, industrial estate, business park, etc.. This is also commonly
used for access to parking and trash collection. Sometimes called an
alley, particularly in the US."

so highway=service has no meaning about public accessability. this is 
done using the access tag.
highway=service just means this is a road that is not as wide as a 
highway=residential.

frank

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Re: [OSM-talk] How to tag small city alley ?

[Claudius]

Am 26.05.2009 12:29, Ben Laenen:
> On Tuesday 26 May 2009, Jacek Konieczny wrote:
>> On Tue, May 26, 2009 at 09:56:42AM +0200, Ivan Garcia wrote:
>>> Hi Peter, which your approach, I believe that the render by osm
>>> will be the same than a normal residential street
>> No, I guess, it will have a red dashed transparent line drawn over
>> it, meaning „restricted access”. No more details, though.
>>
>> And I guess it should be rather highway=service than
>> highway=residental. That changes rendering a bit too (it is narrower
>> in Mapnik IIRC).
>
> What was that again with the "don't tag for the renderer" meme? :-)
>
> It's clearly a public road so you shouldn't use highway=service here.
>
> Ben

Make it a highway=residential and additionally tag width=3

Claudius


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Re: [OSM-talk] Corine Land Cover becomes a potential OSM data source...

[Pieren]

On Thu, May 28, 2009 at 11:17 AM, Jaak Laineste (Nutiteq)
 wrote:
> Hello,
>  are there separate general discussion lists or wiki regarding this
> Corine land data import ? We just got hands on and permissions for our
> local (Estonian) data, and some practical questions and ideas have
> arisen.
>

Yes, we created a Wiki page which is here now:

http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WikiProject_Corine_Land_Cover

We have a group discussing the tagging scheme. A first proposal is
available here:
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WikiProject_Corine_Land_Cover/Tagging_scheme
but we are going through the list and we already decided some changes.
You can see the current progress in the french group (page is in
french but tags are in english):
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WikiProject_France/Corine_Land_Cover/Nomenclature

The discussion is on the french mailing list but we would appreciate
if the discussion is internationalized.

We also have a page looking for a solution about the import and the
conflict resolution with existing landuse in OSM:
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WikiProject_Corine_Land_Cover/Corine_Data_Import

Pieren

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Re: [OSM-talk] Google satellite maps updates

[ce-test, qualified testing bv - Gert Gremmen]

This creates some funny / interesting effects on the boundaries
of old and new data. Als nice to compare old
and new resolution.

Look at the color differences (season?) , missing warehouses on old pictures
and compare also water widths.




and compare also water widths





Gert Gremmen
-

Openstreetmap.nl  (alias: cetest)
 Before printing, think about the environment. 


-Oorspronkelijk bericht-
Van: talk-boun...@openstreetmap.org [mailto:talk-boun...@openstreetmap.org] 
Namens Maarten Deen
Verzonden: Thursday, May 21, 2009 11:15 AM
Aan: Talk Openstreetmap
Onderwerp: [OSM-talk] Google satellite maps updates

I haven't seen this anywhere, but it seems that Google is updating its 
satellite 
maps with even higher resolution data.
Compare what I previously knew as "best resolution": 


with this:


That's pretty impressive (and will get everyone looking at the beaches to see 
some skin).

Regards,
Maarten

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Re: [OSM-talk] Corine Land Cover becomes a potential OSM data source...

[Jaak Laineste (Nutiteq)]

Hello,
 are there separate general discussion lists or wiki regarding this
Corine land data import ? We just got hands on and permissions for our
local (Estonian) data, and some practical questions and ideas have
arisen.

 First of all strategy in general level: one option is to import and
tag everything (huge data amounts) like it is, another would be to
combine data categories (e.g. different types of forests) and do not
farmlands at all (I assume these are not rendered anyway on maps). I
estimate that the second approach could reduce data amounts up to 10
times.

/Jaak

2009/5/14 Andy Robinson (blackadder-lists) :
> Pieren,
>
> A new OSMF Working Group is being formed to support groups and individuals
> with the import of new public and private data. I've copied SteveC who will
> be leading the group so that your email reaches the new groups radar.
>
> Cheers
>
> Andy
>
>>-Original Message-
>>From: talk-boun...@openstreetmap.org [mailto:talk-
>>boun...@openstreetmap.org] On Behalf Of Pieren
>>Sent: 13 May 2009 10:13 PM
>>To: OSM
>>Subject: [OSM-talk] Corine Land Cover becomes a potential OSM data
>>source...
>>
>>at least in France.
>>
>>The Corine Land Cover (CLC) is refering to a european programme
>>establishing a computerised inventory on land cover of the 27 EC
>>member states and other European countries, at an original scale of 1:
>>100 000, using 44 classes of the 3-level Corine nomenclature.
>>
>>It is produced by the European Environment Agency (EEA) and its member
>>countries and is based on the results of IMAGE2000, a satellite
>>imaging programme undertaken jointly by the Joint Research Centre of
>>the European Commision and the EEA .
>>
>>Until now, the terms of use did not allow commercial use unless the
>>Agency has expressly granted the right to do so. This was stopping any
>>possibility to use the land use data for OSM.
>>
>>But, beginning of 2009, french environment agency (IFEN) released the
>>new version of the dataset of year 2006, called CLC2006 with a newer
>>version of the terms of use which explicitely allow commercial use.
>>After some discussions with the french authorities responsible for the
>>programme in France, it has been clearly stated that the CLC2006 data
>>for France can be imported into OSM.
>>
>>During this discussion, it appeared that the same way of opening the
>>data access has been mentionned at the EEA committee. The ad hoc
>>committee in Q1/2009 suggested the following proposal for the new
>>terms of use:
>>
>>Use rights :
>>EEA is promoting the widest possible use of all data produced during
>>the project.
>>All core land cover data (national and European CLC 2000-2006 changes,
>>national and European CLC2006 and related metadata, high resolution
>>built-up areas, including degree of soil sealing, 2006 and high
>>resolution forest areas, 2006) will be made available free of charge
>>via the web, for non-commercial as well as commercial uses.
>>
>>But until it is released at EEA level, only specific national
>>programmes who officially adopted new terms of use compatible with the
>>OSM licence could take this data as a potential source.
>>
>>For France, we are now looking how we will be able to import some of
>>44 classes. We also created a wiki page trying to translate the CLC
>>nomenclature to OSM tags:
>>
>>http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Corine_Land_Cover
>>
>>I would like to see your comments about this translation table but
>>also more in general, about this data source. It is possible that some
>>other states already used CLC data for OSM, in which case, we would
>>appreciate if they could share their experience.
>>
>>regards,
>>Pieren
>>
>>EEA web site for CLC2006: http://etc-lusi.eionet.europa.eu/CLC2006/
>>
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>
>
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-- 
Jaak Laineste
www.nutiteq.com
Skype: jaakl3000
Mobile: +372 509 2586

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