Re: [OSM-talk] Gov access report for September
Damn... I inadvertently sent an internal email to this list. Any help in removing this from archives would be greatly appreciated (I've emailed the list owner). I've never heard that mailman has the ability to redact an email once sent, but if it does, any help on that would also be appreciated. Not having a good day... Thanks Ben ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Ongoing bulk uploads of GPS traces?
On 2010-10-14 1:35 AM, Richard Weait wrote: Thank you for taking the initiative arrange this with your company. If you get the opportunity to change your data acquisition to one track point per second you'll find the traces much nicer for creating junctions, ramps, exits, fuel stations etc. I'll look into the options, but I seem to remember hearing that we were already on the highest frequency possible (with, I guess, our pricing plan). Are you really taking waypoints every 30 second or track points? I've always worked with tracks / track points. Ah, well, yes: I'm probably just displaying my ignorance. ;-) What's the difference between a waypoint and a track point? This is typical for mapping new areas. You'll make improvements with each pass. Highway=road first, perhaps junctions as you add crossing traces next, a new amenity=fuel when you stop at a new place... Improved road classifications as driver observations and memory allow. I should make one point clear: I'm not actually surveying these places. I sit in an office in Perth, and don't really know the country through which the vehicles travel. I'll just be making the best of the GPS tracks and Yahoo imagery. Obviously it'd be better to have people who actually *know* the country editing the map, but I don't think that's going to happen any time soon! And thank you everyone for your support! I'm excited about being able to contribute to the map like this. Perhaps I should organise an *armchair* mapping party to help trace the roads; anyone here in WA?! - Sam. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Ongoing bulk uploads of GPS traces?
On 2010-10-14 3:35 AM, Elizabeth Dodd wrote: On Wed, 13 Oct 2010 17:04:20 +0200 M∡rtin Koppenhoefer wrote: OK if the streets are perfectly straight and there is nothing around ;-) Perfect for rural and remote Western Australia then. (This is the part of the world that owns the longest railway straight in existence) Yep, perfectly straight and nothing around: that's the WA wheatbelt exactly! ;-) ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Ongoing bulk uploads of GPS traces?
On 2010-10-13 5:12 PM, Jonathan Bennett wrote: You'd be releasing the data under CC-BY-SA and ODbL. If you are acting on behalf of the copyright owner, then you don't need to add any further documentation -- simply uploading the data is enough to show you agree to the licences. Great! I might just get a letter from management as well, stating that they're permitting me to do this; never know what might happen in the future. A separate account for the traces may well be a good idea. As for aggregating the traces, I don't see any benefit to OSM of doing that, especially if it involves you doing more work. If it's the effort of uploading multiple traces that worries you, there's an Alpha-quality Java utility that I'm happy to help you to use: http://www.chainring.co.uk/Tracey.jar I've been looking into the format that the traces will come in, and it looks like a weekly NMEA dump is going to be the least work for me -- a single file, with all vehicles, that I can gpsbabel into GPX and upload. But I'm open to suggestions on that - Sam. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] Gov access report for September
Hi all Attached is the government access report for September. I've added a 'licensed' column, but the only information I have to fill this in is the set of IP addresses in the WMS whitelist file; these don't always identify agencies, and I'm guessing that not all licensees pay for WMS access, so all we can deduce from this is that the ones marked 'Yes' are definitely licensed. Apologies for the delay in getting this done. Cheers b -- Ben Last Development Manager NearMap.com reports2010-09-01-2010-10-01.xlsx Description: application/vnd.openxmlformats-officedocument.spreadsheetml.sheet ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Ongoing bulk uploads of GPS traces?
On 13 October 2010 20:35, Elizabeth Dodd wrote: > On Wed, 13 Oct 2010 17:04:20 +0200 > M∡rtin Koppenhoefer wrote: > > > OK if the streets are perfectly straight and there is nothing around > > ;-) > Perfect for rural and remote Western Australia then. > (This is the part of the world that owns the longest railway straight > in existence) > > I agree, plus if the traces are numerous, the coverage could end up being quite good. In addition, they might be good enough to provide some initial sketch of roads. Emilie Laffray ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Ongoing bulk uploads of GPS traces?
On Wed, 13 Oct 2010 17:04:20 +0200 M∡rtin Koppenhoefer wrote: > OK if the streets are perfectly straight and there is nothing around > ;-) Perfect for rural and remote Western Australia then. (This is the part of the world that owns the longest railway straight in existence) ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] legal FAQ license
Hi, M∡rtin Koppenhoefer wrote: reading the legal FAQ for the license change: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Open_Data_License_FAQ there is a paragraph that looks strange to me: "... - we may take the view that those who have made small contributions, but cannot be contacted, would relicence their data under the new licence. We will enable them to contact us at a later date." this part looks like a problem to me, as it is opt-out instead of the always proclaimed opt-in, or have I misunderstood this? I think you have understood this all right. In my eyes there's a wide band between clearly non-copyrightable edits on one side (which we could legally keep in OSM even if the person who added them said no - but we're unlikely to exercise that right) and edits that are clearly "works" on the other (which are thus copyrightable in some countries). In between there may well lie some edits that are extremely unlikely to qualify as a "work" in terms of IP law, but where we would still remove them if the person who added them were to ask us to do it. For these, I think the "opt-out" mechanism is morally acceptable. Bye Frederik -- Frederik Ramm ## eMail frede...@remote.org ## N49°00'09" E008°23'33" ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-t...@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Ongoing bulk uploads of GPS traces?
On Wed, Oct 13, 2010 at 3:50 AM, Sam Wilson wrote: > Hi, > > I work for a company in Western Australia that has a dozen or so vehicles > traveling all over regional WA and all equipped with GPS trackers, taking > waypoints at 30s intervals. I am going to be allowed to upload the data to > OSM. I'm just wondering what issues I'm facing... Thank you for taking the initiative arrange this with your company. If you get the opportunity to change your data acquisition to one track point per second you'll find the traces much nicer for creating junctions, ramps, exits, fuel stations etc. Are you really taking waypoints every 30 second or track points? I've always worked with tracks / track points. > 1. We use OSM maps for navigation, and so management are quite able to see > the value that could arise from our giving this data to OSM, because it > would make the maps better. But there is a bit of a gap between > lots-of-GPS-traces and lots-of-well-tagged-roads! What can I do to bridge > this gap? (I mean, trace over the GPS trace, I know, but that's going to > leave a lot of 'highway=road' tags; is that okay?) This is typical for mapping new areas. You'll make improvements with each pass. Highway=road first, perhaps junctions as you add crossing traces next, a new amenity=fuel when you stop at a new place... Improved road classifications as driver observations and memory allow. > 3. Is a single daily trace suitable? I mean, all vehicles' traces put > together in one file and uploaded (under, I guess, a separate account -- but > still owned by me)? Or is there some automatic way of doing this? Individual traces seems a better approach to me. I've used combined traces but recall that some tools did not handle the split between traces very well. One left a connection between the end one one trace and the start of the next. Another ignored traces after the first trace. I don't recall which tools these were; it was some time ago. > But really: is this worthwhile? Will my company benefit? Will OSM benefit? Is this worthwhile? It seems to be exactly what OSM is for. Additional contributors, participating in OpenStreetMap by telling us more about their part of the World. Perfect. Tell some of your trusted colleagues how much fun it is too. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Ongoing bulk uploads of GPS traces?
On Wed, Oct 13, 2010 at 4:04 PM, M∡rtin Koppenhoefer wrote: > 2010/10/13 Sam Wilson : > > Hi, > > > > I work for a company in Western Australia that has a dozen or so vehicles > > traveling all over regional WA and all equipped with GPS trackers, taking > > waypoints at 30s intervals. I am going to be allowed to upload the data > to > > OSM. I'm just wondering what issues I'm facing... > > > I feel that 30s per trackpoint is not quite much. For a truck > travelling at 80km per hour this would be one trackpoint every 667 > metres. Not really enough to get even the idea where a curve is, but > OK if the streets are perfectly straight and there is nothing around > ;-) > And perfectly fine if there are multiple journeys along the same route. This data is definitely of value. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Ongoing bulk uploads of GPS traces?
2010/10/13 Sam Wilson : > Hi, > > I work for a company in Western Australia that has a dozen or so vehicles > traveling all over regional WA and all equipped with GPS trackers, taking > waypoints at 30s intervals. I am going to be allowed to upload the data to > OSM. I'm just wondering what issues I'm facing... I feel that 30s per trackpoint is not quite much. For a truck travelling at 80km per hour this would be one trackpoint every 667 metres. Not really enough to get even the idea where a curve is, but OK if the streets are perfectly straight and there is nothing around ;-) Cheers, Martin ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] Osmand question regarding overlaping
Hi, apologies if this is the wrong forum for this question. I'm using osmand and successfully downloaded all the tiles for my city and it works great. Now I want to do the same for the whole country (I'm in spain). Obviously the country will include tge city within it. How does osmand handle this overlapping? Is it a problem our is it smart enough to handle it properly. Also, it's there a repository somewhere or perhaps a torrent with maps for different countries ready for download rather than using the map creator program? Thanks in advance! ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-legal-talk] legal FAQ license
reading the legal FAQ for the license change: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Open_Data_License_FAQ there is a paragraph that looks strange to me: "... - we may take the view that those who have made small contributions, but cannot be contacted, would relicence their data under the new licence. We will enable them to contact us at a later date." this part looks like a problem to me, as it is opt-out instead of the always proclaimed opt-in, or have I misunderstood this? Or is this refering to anonymous edits only? cheers, Martin ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-t...@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Ongoing bulk uploads of GPS traces?
Am 13.10.2010 10:53, schrieb Sam Wilson: On 13/10/10 4:39 PM, Elizabeth Dodd wrote: Would you consider uploading the traces to an independent point, specifying the licence of the traces and giving permission for them to be traced into OSM / other maps (you specify what) and perhaps this could then be downloaded as a separate layer into editors? Yes, I could do that, absolutely. Do you think this is a better option? It would make the traces less apparent to lots of people (i.e. they wouldn't be included when someone clicks the "Also get GPS traces" checkbox in Merkaartor for example), but I guess I could advertise their existence to Australian mappers etc. One possibility would be to present it as WMS. Most editors have WMS support and you can use standard GIS tools to do so. Peter ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Ongoing bulk uploads of GPS traces?
Elizabeth Dodd wrote: > There was a Russian transport mob who managed to completely > overload the track upload system trying to put up gps traces to > the main database. Separate hosting would keep that from > happening - WA is on the same huge scale as Russia. Different issue. The issue with the Russian transport mob is that they uploaded the tracks all in one go with no delay between them. Simply putting "sleep 60" in your upload script between each track fixes this. Sam: this is great. Go for it. cheers Richard -- View this message in context: http://gis.638310.n2.nabble.com/Ongoing-bulk-uploads-of-GPS-traces-tp5629920p5630878.html Sent from the General Discussion mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Ongoing bulk uploads of GPS traces?
On Wed, 13 Oct 2010 16:53:59 +0800 Sam Wilson wrote: > On 13/10/10 4:39 PM, Elizabeth Dodd wrote: > > Would you consider uploading the traces to an independent point, > > specifying the licence of the traces and giving permission for them > > to be traced into OSM / other maps (you specify what) and perhaps > > this could then be downloaded as a separate layer into editors? > > Yes, I could do that, absolutely. Do you think this is a better > option? It would make the traces less apparent to lots of people > (i.e. they wouldn't be included when someone clicks the "Also get GPS > traces" checkbox in Merkaartor for example), but I guess I could > advertise their existence to Australian mappers etc. > > There was a Russian transport mob who managed to completely overload the track upload system trying to put up gps traces to the main database. Separate hosting would keep that from happening - WA is on the same huge scale as Russia. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Ongoing bulk uploads of GPS traces?
On 13/10/2010 08:50, Sam Wilson wrote: 1. We use OSM maps for navigation, and so management are quite able to see the value that could arise from our giving this data to OSM, because it would make the maps better. But there is a bit of a gap between lots-of-GPS-traces and lots-of-well-tagged-roads! What can I do to bridge this gap? (I mean, trace over the GPS trace, I know, but that's going to leave a lot of 'highway=road' tags; is that okay?) That's fine -- it's much better than nothing 2. What form of permission do I need to get from management, and where does it get saved? Is there a pro forma letter somewhere? What licence do we release the data under? You'd be releasing the data under CC-BY-SA and ODbL. If you are acting on behalf of the copyright owner, then you don't need to add any further documentation -- simply uploading the data is enough to show you agree to the licences. 3. Is a single daily trace suitable? I mean, all vehicles' traces put together in one file and uploaded (under, I guess, a separate account -- but still owned by me)? Or is there some automatic way of doing this? A separate account for the traces may well be a good idea. As for aggregating the traces, I don't see any benefit to OSM of doing that, especially if it involves you doing more work. If it's the effort of uploading multiple traces that worries you, there's an Alpha-quality Java utility that I'm happy to help you to use: http://www.chainring.co.uk/Tracey.jar But really: is this worthwhile? Will my company benefit? Will OSM benefit? Yes. More source data is always good, especially if it's based on real movements. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Ongoing bulk uploads of GPS traces?
On 13/10/10 4:39 PM, Elizabeth Dodd wrote: Would you consider uploading the traces to an independent point, specifying the licence of the traces and giving permission for them to be traced into OSM / other maps (you specify what) and perhaps this could then be downloaded as a separate layer into editors? Yes, I could do that, absolutely. Do you think this is a better option? It would make the traces less apparent to lots of people (i.e. they wouldn't be included when someone clicks the "Also get GPS traces" checkbox in Merkaartor for example), but I guess I could advertise their existence to Australian mappers etc. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] Ongoing bulk uploads of GPS traces?
Hi, I work for a company in Western Australia that has a dozen or so vehicles traveling all over regional WA and all equipped with GPS trackers, taking waypoints at 30s intervals. I am going to be allowed to upload the data to OSM. I'm just wondering what issues I'm facing... 1. We use OSM maps for navigation, and so management are quite able to see the value that could arise from our giving this data to OSM, because it would make the maps better. But there is a bit of a gap between lots-of-GPS-traces and lots-of-well-tagged-roads! What can I do to bridge this gap? (I mean, trace over the GPS trace, I know, but that's going to leave a lot of 'highway=road' tags; is that okay?) 2. What form of permission do I need to get from management, and where does it get saved? Is there a pro forma letter somewhere? What licence do we release the data under? 3. Is a single daily trace suitable? I mean, all vehicles' traces put together in one file and uploaded (under, I guess, a separate account -- but still owned by me)? Or is there some automatic way of doing this? But really: is this worthwhile? Will my company benefit? Will OSM benefit? Thanks for any help, Sam. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [Tagging] Introducing Taginfo
On Tue, Oct 12, 2010 at 10:58:34PM +0200, Sebastian Klein wrote: > Jochen Topf wrote: >> On Tue, Oct 05, 2010 at 04:46:26PM +0200, Pieren wrote: >>> If I could have one request, it would be nice to see the amount of different >>> contributors using the same tag. This to distinguish between quantity and >>> popularity. I know it might be challenging since we should only count the >>> user of the tag creation in the element history... >> >> On http://taginfo.openstreetmap.de/keys there is a 'users' column. But this >> doesn't look at the history, only the current use. It gives you still some >> idea, but its not perfect. But reading the history is not an option at the >> moment, because this would need far more resources. >> >> The number of users is also taking into account when creating the tag cloud >> for the home page. This way some tags from imports which are very common in >> the database but have a small user count are downgraded. :-) >> >> Jochen > > Is it planned to have users count for the individual key pages? It can > be interesting to see how popular common_key=some_exotic_value really is. > Sometimes it is used frequently, but by a single mapper only. Users are counted for keys only and not for key=value combinations, because there are just too many key=value combinations and too many users to do this counting efficiently. At least I haven't come up with an idea how to do this. maybe somebody else can. Currently for every key I create a hash with all users in it, that use this key. When I am through all the tags, I count how many elements there are in each hash and thats the number of users for this key. This is rather inefficient and could probably be improved using some clever hashing for the price of some inaccuracies (which don't matter too much in this case, all we really want to know is roughly how many users there are). But even when this is done in a more efficient manner, we can't to that for 50 million different key=value combinations. We might be able to do it for the more popular combinations, after all if a key=value combination only appears twice in the whole database, it doesn't really matter if that was from one or two users. Currently Taginfo needs about 10G RAM to do all the statistics it does. Thats already too much in my opinion. So until somebody finds a clever way how to reduce the memory needed for these kinds of statistics, they can not be done. Jochen -- Jochen Topf joc...@remote.org http://www.remote.org/jochen/ +49-721-388298 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Proposal: winter roads
On Sat, 9 Oct 2010 12:56:07 +0400 Gleb Smirnoff wrote: > Dave, > > On Sat, Oct 09, 2010 at 12:13:14AM +0100, Dave F. wrote: > D> The wiki page describes subjective information. > D> > D> Unless it's actually closed by authority don't say it's > D> impassible. For instance in defense of your argument that it's > D> impassable you say the average speed is 0.5km/h. This comment > D> proves the it *is* passable, just very slowly. > > No this one is not passable, and vast majority of other winter roads > are not passable, too. Let me explain again: first, the photo is taken > at a piece of winter road that is reachable by 4x4 vehicle. Evidently, > I can't make a photo of a vehicle at a place where vehicle can't get > to. If I walk there by foot, and make photo w/o vehicle on road, the > photo won't tell anything: an untouched muskeg swamp looks like a > meadow. Dmitri has added another photo of winter road, it demonstates > better the terrain: > > http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/surface:winter_road It is no coincedence there is a Russian word, rasputitsa, which means "roadlessness"... __ Morten Juhl-Johansen Zölde-Fejér http://writtenandread.net * mor...@writtenandread.net ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
