Re: [OSM-talk] Royal Mail Incorrect OSM Usage
On Thu, Aug 2, 2012 at 9:36 PM, Toby Murray wrote:
> On Thu, Aug 2, 2012 at 8:00 PM, Robert Norris wrote:
>>
>>
>> I think it's nice that the Royal Mail have chosen to use OSM for the
>> backdrop to their site for Great Britain Golden Postbox listings to
>> celebrate Team GB successes in the current Olympics:
>>
>> http://www.goldpostboxes.com/
>>
>> 1. I think a certain Attribution clause is missing[1]
>> 2. I think they are merely pointing to the OSM main tileserver
>> (tile.openstreetmap.org) - this doesn't seem in keeping with the OSM Tile
>> Usage Policy[2]
>>
>> [1] http://www.openstreetmap.org/copyright
>> [2] http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tile_usage_policy
>
> First reaction: Make sure everything near those markers is mapped
> well! (check for license bot damage?)
>
> I also sent them a friendly tweet. What are the chances that anyone
> will see it? :)
For what it's worth, there *is* attribution in the code that sets up OpenLayers:
"osm_mapnik":{"baselayer":true,"attribution":"\u0026copy;\u003Ca
href=\u0022http:\/\/creativecommons.org\/licenses\/by-sa\/2.0\/\u0022\u003ECCBYSA\u003C\/a\u003E
2010\n \u003Ca
href=\u0022http:\/\/www.openstreetmap.org\/\u0022\u003EOpenStreetMap.org\u003C\/a\u003E
contributors", [...]
Something just seems to be preventing it from displaying.
Toby
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Re: [OSM-talk] Royal Mail Incorrect OSM Usage
On Thu, Aug 2, 2012 at 8:00 PM, Robert Norris wrote: > > > I think it's nice that the Royal Mail have chosen to use OSM for the backdrop > to their site for Great Britain Golden Postbox listings to celebrate Team GB > successes in the current Olympics: > > http://www.goldpostboxes.com/ > > 1. I think a certain Attribution clause is missing[1] > 2. I think they are merely pointing to the OSM main tileserver > (tile.openstreetmap.org) - this doesn't seem in keeping with the OSM Tile > Usage Policy[2] > > [1] http://www.openstreetmap.org/copyright > [2] http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tile_usage_policy First reaction: Make sure everything near those markers is mapped well! (check for license bot damage?) I also sent them a friendly tweet. What are the chances that anyone will see it? :) Toby ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] Royal Mail Incorrect OSM Usage
I think it's nice that the Royal Mail have chosen to use OSM for the backdrop to their site for Great Britain Golden Postbox listings to celebrate Team GB successes in the current Olympics: http://www.goldpostboxes.com/ 1. I think a certain Attribution clause is missing[1] 2. I think they are merely pointing to the OSM main tileserver (tile.openstreetmap.org) - this doesn't seem in keeping with the OSM Tile Usage Policy[2] [1] http://www.openstreetmap.org/copyright [2] http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tile_usage_policy Be Seeing You - Rob. If at first you don't succeed, then skydiving isn't for you. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Naming disputes in Ukraine
On Thu Aug 2 20:22:16 BST 2012 Frederik Ramm wrote: > Yes, because as soon as you "invent" this status part, you will offend > someone, no matter whether you choose the Ukrainian or the Russian > version of the status part. This is the main misunderstanding here. We tried to explain it several times, but were always ignored by the guys who started to change everything "back to Russian" and unfortunately by DWG. Our initial changes of streets in Crimea to Ukrainian was driven by a simple technical decision, which is to have 'name' in Ukrainian, so the map will work as is in navigation software, name:en tags could be generated, and validators could be written. No politics, no 'pro-Ukrainian' or 'anti-Russian', although we are constantly being painted as such. Suddenly a newcomer approaches, and silently mass-renames many streets into Russian, loosing original Ukrainian renderings along the way, e.g. without copying them to name:uk. As we always do in such cases, he was contacted in private, and in parallel his actions were discussed in "users: Ukraine" forum. In three days he gave his 'go ahead' to revert his changes. I was the one who made the reverts. We thought it's over. Then couple weeks ago we occasionally found out that he silently reverted the reverts, and then after my following revert contacted DWG. After the first case we were openly encouraging him and anyone else from Crimea to step in and propose to change the rule, which they never even tried, only expressed heavy abuses in return. The main reasoning for our offer was that we cannot silently alter the guidelines on the Wiki without prior discussion. Many fellow users, including those closely involved in the discussions, were all OK with having Crimea all in Russian, and still are. We just did not want to create a precedence when a total newcomer (with 10 new objects on the map) can jump in and twist the whole thing as he wants (and the main arguments of the guy was that 'I want it to be in Russian since I speak Russian'). What made the whole thing bitter is that after all we found out that the initial user who started all of this and who wrote to DWG, actually is a permanent resident of Moscow, Russia, and as such is not local only to Crimea, but even to whole Ukraine. Nevertheless, we are willing to ignore this fact and address the problem. So, to make it straight. o We are fine with clear and simple rule to have 'name' tag in Crimea for street ways (to give proper definition, within a polygon defined by relation 72639), such as 'have Russian in name tag', or 'have 2 renderings in name tag'. This will make possible to continue the current pace of using software in processing and exporting territory of Ukraine. o The rule above cannot be applied to city and village names, since all of those are in Ukrainian everywhere. All place nodes already have 4 name tags. o The rule to have name in Ukrainian never stretched on usual objects such as POIs. E.g. we always wrote in 'name' whatever is actually on the advertisement for this amenity. There are names in Ukrainian, Russian and English in the country. So there is no need to enforce anything in this regard. o Our initial decision to have Ukrainian in name tag had nothing to do with politics or oppression of any human being. It is a purely technical decision, in the light that OSM is a Database, and not just a map. o Current DWG decision does not address the problem at all, since historically same object may (and does) have inconsistent naming on the ground. o Moreover, having unpredictable mix in 'name' will degrade quality of any navigational maps or geocoding. o Substantial part of Crimea was mapped in Ukrainian from the beginning, simply because people followed the established rule. We have several locals from Crimea in the forums who were surprised by the dispute, and who did the initial mapping. Nevertheless, it is OK to rename those to whatever be decided. Thus, I would like to request DWG to revisit their decision and whole "dispute", and come up with something which is more transparent and easy to follow. Eugene ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Naming disputes in Ukraine
On 03.08.2012 0:22, Cartinus wrote: > I read the whole mess on the mailinglists en de wiki. > > The point you are completely missing is that unless there is a conflict > the local community can't resolve, the DWG won't get involved at all. > If I will start making those changes, there will be a conflict. Or, if You still insists, that only local mappers are allowed to map particular area, not me but some local mapper. DWG will be involved again, and it will be really wrong to make another decision in another part of the world, because DWG would be not better than our politicians. > If you had followed the whole thread, then you could have seen that e.g. > The mappers in Brussels have decided on a solution that works for them. > Other bi- or multilingual areas chose different solutions. Nobody > (including the DWG) is forcing them to use a worldwide single approach. > I don't have the feeling You have read everything I wrote. Ukrainian community had a solution. Even mappers from other russian speaking regions in east of Ukraine supported it. As this whole naming crap started, we had a discussion in ukrainian part of forum and offered russian speaking mappers from Crimea to support them in creating a proposal. None of them showed the will to make such one and to participate in further discussion. Instead someone of them reported ukrainian community as an aggressor to DWG. How can You find a solution involving all parties, if one part is not willing to discus? > A single vandal from outside the area (as that is what you "propose" to > do in the whole ex-USSR) messing around is something a local community > can easily fix themselves. > Can You explain me how? I can also use reverter plugin for JOSM ;-) At the end they will be forced to contact DWG. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Naming disputes in Ukraine
I read the whole mess on the mailinglists en de wiki. The point you are completely missing is that unless there is a conflict the local community can't resolve, the DWG won't get involved at all. If you had followed the whole thread, then you could have seen that e.g. The mappers in Brussels have decided on a solution that works for them. Other bi- or multilingual areas chose different solutions. Nobody (including the DWG) is forcing them to use a worldwide single approach. A single vandal from outside the area (as that is what you "propose" to do in the whole ex-USSR) messing around is something a local community can easily fix themselves. - One person, however isolated he is living, is never a community. You need more people for that. If a single city has a dedicated group of mappers, then that is a community. If there is only an active mapper in every fifth city in the country, then the local community is obviously bigger than one city. On 08/02/2012 11:40 PM, iONiX wrote: > On 02.08.2012 23:10, Cartinus wrote: >> >> >> On 08/02/2012 09:47 PM, iONiX wrote: >>> On 02.08.2012 21:38, Lester Caine wrote: [...] > > If I understand You correct - it is desirable to go through all exUSSR > countries and change every object name tag to whatever is mentioned on > signs? If they are currently NOT showing what is on the sign then YES, and in my book that is not even up for discussion! If I can't photograph what appears on the base map ... it's wrong, and should be tagged as that so it can be fixed ... If there IS no sign, then it's obviously a matter for argument what is used, and it that case I'd prefer not to render anything since that is the case on the ground. Translated options for names can then be freely used for translated maps. >>> >>> Ok, than I want to see, what community will be first to report me to DWG. >> >> Are you the _local_ community in all those places? Don't think so. >> > > So, "truth on the ground" rule applies only to mappers from local > community? Other mappers have no right to apply this rule? If I saw > those signs in a vacation trip, or I use other free sources, am I not > allowed to change them? > > By the way, have You read DWG decision? Clearly no. > [quote] > It is not sufficient to execute some kind of proposal process and say > "you can participate in the vote if you want". We acknowledge that this > is difficult, especially given the rather un-civil way in which some > Crimea mappers have behaved in this discussion, but if they are not > included in the solution then the problem cannot be resolved. > [/quote] > > How community is defined? Are one person in some suburb or desert > community? If so, he can establish any policies he want. And when he is > not cooperative with rest of bigger community, than they have to accept > his decision. > > Do I have be anywhere locally to be part of community? What if I tell > You, I am living in Amsterdam? I find some more people, we decide to tag > buildings with "place_to_sleep" in our suburb/town/region? How the rest > of dutch community will react? > > I am trying to show that there are much bigger problem with name tag in > many parts of the world, not only Ukraine! > > ___ > talk mailing list > talk@openstreetmap.org > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk > -- --- m.v.g., Cartinus ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Naming disputes in Ukraine
On 02.08.2012 23:10, Cartinus wrote: > > > On 08/02/2012 09:47 PM, iONiX wrote: >> On 02.08.2012 21:38, Lester Caine wrote: >>> [...] If I understand You correct - it is desirable to go through all exUSSR countries and change every object name tag to whatever is mentioned on signs? >>> >>> If they are currently NOT showing what is on the sign then YES, and in >>> my book that is not even up for discussion! >>> If I can't photograph what appears on the base map ... it's wrong, and >>> should be tagged as that so it can be fixed ... >>> If there IS no sign, then it's obviously a matter for argument what is >>> used, and it that case I'd prefer not to render anything since that is >>> the case on the ground. Translated options for names can then be freely >>> used for translated maps. >> >> Ok, than I want to see, what community will be first to report me to DWG. > > Are you the _local_ community in all those places? Don't think so. > So, "truth on the ground" rule applies only to mappers from local community? Other mappers have no right to apply this rule? If I saw those signs in a vacation trip, or I use other free sources, am I not allowed to change them? By the way, have You read DWG decision? Clearly no. [quote] It is not sufficient to execute some kind of proposal process and say "you can participate in the vote if you want". We acknowledge that this is difficult, especially given the rather un-civil way in which some Crimea mappers have behaved in this discussion, but if they are not included in the solution then the problem cannot be resolved. [/quote] How community is defined? Are one person in some suburb or desert community? If so, he can establish any policies he want. And when he is not cooperative with rest of bigger community, than they have to accept his decision. Do I have be anywhere locally to be part of community? What if I tell You, I am living in Amsterdam? I find some more people, we decide to tag buildings with "place_to_sleep" in our suburb/town/region? How the rest of dutch community will react? I am trying to show that there are much bigger problem with name tag in many parts of the world, not only Ukraine! ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Naming disputes in Ukraine
Cartinus wrote: > > > On 08/02/2012 09:47 PM, iONiX wrote: > > On 02.08.2012 21:38, Lester Caine wrote: > >> [...] > >>> > >>> If I understand You correct - it is desirable to go through all > exUSSR > >>> countries and change every object name tag to whatever is > mentioned on > >>> signs? > >> > >> If they are currently NOT showing what is on the sign then YES, and > in > >> my book that is not even up for discussion! > >> If I can't photograph what appears on the base map ... it's wrong, > and > >> should be tagged as that so it can be fixed ... > >> If there IS no sign, then it's obviously a matter for argument what > is > >> used, and it that case I'd prefer not to render anything since that > is > >> the case on the ground. Translated options for names can then be > freely > >> used for translated maps. > > > > Ok, than I want to see, what community will be first to report me to > DWG. > > Are you the _local_ community in all those places? Don't think so. > > -- > --- > m.v.g., > Cartinus > "My name is Legion, for we are many." -- John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com "Reserve your right to think, for even to think wrongly is better than not to think at all." -- Hypatia of Alexandria ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Naming disputes in Ukraine
On 08/02/2012 09:47 PM, iONiX wrote: > On 02.08.2012 21:38, Lester Caine wrote: >> [...] >>> >>> If I understand You correct - it is desirable to go through all exUSSR >>> countries and change every object name tag to whatever is mentioned on >>> signs? >> >> If they are currently NOT showing what is on the sign then YES, and in >> my book that is not even up for discussion! >> If I can't photograph what appears on the base map ... it's wrong, and >> should be tagged as that so it can be fixed ... >> If there IS no sign, then it's obviously a matter for argument what is >> used, and it that case I'd prefer not to render anything since that is >> the case on the ground. Translated options for names can then be freely >> used for translated maps. > > Ok, than I want to see, what community will be first to report me to DWG. Are you the _local_ community in all those places? Don't think so. -- --- m.v.g., Cartinus ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Naming disputes in Ukraine
On 02.08.2012 21:38, Lester Caine wrote: > [...] >> >> If I understand You correct - it is desirable to go through all exUSSR >> countries and change every object name tag to whatever is mentioned on >> signs? > > If they are currently NOT showing what is on the sign then YES, and in > my book that is not even up for discussion! > If I can't photograph what appears on the base map ... it's wrong, and > should be tagged as that so it can be fixed ... > If there IS no sign, then it's obviously a matter for argument what is > used, and it that case I'd prefer not to render anything since that is > the case on the ground. Translated options for names can then be freely > used for translated maps. Ok, than I want to see, what community will be first to report me to DWG. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Naming disputes in Ukraine
On 02.08.2012 21:22, Frederik Ramm wrote: > [..] > >> We showed examples in forum, why it is not that simple to follow "truth >> on the ground" rule in ukraine. Here are some examples from me: > > Yes, it is not simple. The simplest solution would be to say that all > names in the Crimea shold be in Russian, or all names should be in > Ukrainian - the two extreme positions that led to the edit war. > > Do you have a better *compromise* solution, or are you arguing for one > of the extreme positions? If you have a better *compromise* solution, > get the buy in from all involved parties and DWG won't stand in your way > when you execute it. I made my point of view pretty clear in forum: declare name tag as deprecated, like discussed here before. But I understand that it is not possible to this in short time. Therefore this DWG solution is acceptable for now. > [...] >> Do I have now permission from DWG to go and change all name tags on >> streets that have belarusian signs? > > If there are any streets with Belarusian signs in the Crimea, then > you're welcome to change them. No, I mean signs in Minks, Belarus! >> I do not want to change name tags to ukrainian language in Crimea for >> now, but it is not an acceptable solution from DWG we now have to >> respect. > > Given that the extreme solutions "all names in Russian" and "all names > in Ukrainian" are not acceptable either, what would you suggest? Yes both this solutions are extreme, but ukrainian community decided for consistency to use ukrainian language in name tag - even mappers from other mostly russian speaking regions wanted it this way. Until one, two (three?) mappers from Crimea wanted only to *see* their city in russian language. Do they provided any other arguments? They did not provided any other possible solutions to this problem. Ukrainian community even offered them to make an proposal for Crimea region - none of them answered to this offer. Again, I will accept for now this decision, and none of mappers from ukrainian community, as far as I can see, changed any name tag to ukrainian again. Kind regards, iONiX ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Naming disputes in Ukraine
iONiX wrote: iONiX wrote: >>What when street is renamed and you want to send a letter, or some poi >>is located there and have its official address with new name, but old >>signs are still installed (for months or years). Do You really still >>want to rely on those old signs on the street? > >Most definitely for the main rendered detail, and if there are two >different versions I would show them exactly where they appear on the >ground. But for additional information related to a particular language, >then that should simply be correctly tagged and stored. It may be that >there is an additional note that explains that one of two signs is >wrong, but until what is visible on the ground is changed, the base >information is well defined - even if it is totally wrong:) And that >applies everywhere in the world ... EVEN if some local authority try to >dictate otherwise. Have You read about new old naming? An I mean not old like russian and new like ukrainian, I mean it regardless the language. If I understand You correct - it is desirable to go through all exUSSR countries and change every object name tag to whatever is mentioned on signs? If they are currently NOT showing what is on the sign then YES, and in my book that is not even up for discussion! If I can't photograph what appears on the base map ... it's wrong, and should be tagged as that so it can be fixed ... If there IS no sign, then it's obviously a matter for argument what is used, and it that case I'd prefer not to render anything since that is the case on the ground. Translated options for names can then be freely used for translated maps. -- Lester Caine - G8HFL - Contact - http://lsces.co.uk/wiki/?page=contact L.S.Caine Electronic Services - http://lsces.co.uk EnquirySolve - http://enquirysolve.com/ Model Engineers Digital Workshop - http://medw.co.uk Rainbow Digital Media - http://rainbowdigitalmedia.co.uk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Naming disputes in Ukraine
If your (or anybody elses) politicians are so dumb that they make rules for which they have no money to implement, then you should vote them out of office next time. If your postmen can't find an "old" address for streets where the signs have not changed, they should be looking for a new job. -- --- m.v.g., Cartinus ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Naming disputes in Ukraine
Hi, On 02.08.2012 20:43, iONiX wrote: 1. Will be same decision made in other parts of the world, if similar problems will come up? It depends, but the "on the ground rule" is often the best available compromise. (Another possible compromise is to say that no "name" tags are allowed at all in the region, which means that there will be no labels on openstreetmap.org - then every party is forced to use a different tile server that serves name:xx tags of their choice. We did that with Jerusalem once but people weren't happy.) In general, DWG prefers to be not involved at all. If we have a community of grown-up and compassionate mappers who recognize that "the other side" has a point, and who sit together to find a solution that is acceptable to all, then that is certainly preferable. 2. Information on signs is more important and should be retained in OSM DB even if its proven to be wrong through legislation rulings? I think that in cases where *no* conflict exists - i.e. a street is renamed from "A street" to "B street" and there is nobody who says "but all of us here locally still say A street" then it is acceptable to edit it EVEN IF the old name is still on a sign. However, if the edit has even the slightest cultural component - for example, central government resolves that street name should be B but local people still use A - then the renaming has to wait until central government actually puts up a sign. We showed examples in forum, why it is not that simple to follow "truth on the ground" rule in ukraine. Here are some examples from me: Yes, it is not simple. The simplest solution would be to say that all names in the Crimea shold be in Russian, or all names should be in Ukrainian - the two extreme positions that led to the edit war. Do you have a better *compromise* solution, or are you arguing for one of the extreme positions? If you have a better *compromise* solution, get the buy in from all involved parties and DWG won't stand in your way when you execute it. It seems, this sign ( http://maps.yandex.ru/?ll=33.514916%2C44.585732&spn=1.290894%2C0.209039&z=10&l=map%2Cstv&ol=stv&oll=33.51491593%2C44.58573223&oid=&ost=dir%3A232.7167932632227%2C-2.0492579426501294~spn%3A53.227793344151856%2C22.314288181632726 ) does not have status part. In both languages name of the street is "Кожанова", but status part in ukrainian would be "вулиця" in russian "улица". Should status part be removed from street name completely? Yes, because as soon as you "invent" this status part, you will offend someone, no matter whether you choose the Ukrainian or the Russian version of the status part. What when street is renamed and you want to send a letter, or some poi is located there and have its official address with new name, but old signs are still installed (for months or years). Do You really still want to rely on those old signs on the street? I belive that in this case, all involved mappers would be happy when the street is renamed, no edit war would ensue, and DWG would happily accept this "violation" of the rule. Do I have now permission from DWG to go and change all name tags on streets that have belarusian signs? If there are any streets with Belarusian signs in the Crimea, then you're welcome to change them. I do not want to change name tags to ukrainian language in Crimea for now, but it is not an acceptable solution from DWG we now have to respect. Given that the extreme solutions "all names in Russian" and "all names in Ukrainian" are not acceptable either, what would you suggest? Bye Frederik -- Frederik Ramm ## eMail frede...@remote.org ## N49°00'09" E008°23'33" ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] POI collection methods
Thanks all for your responses. I decided to enable geotagging for my photos and use OsmTracker for tracking (1 sec interval). Then I load the gpx file and the photos into JOSM where I put the POIs into OSM. Yesterday I marked in a bit more than 200 POIs and today might bring in rougly the same amount. So far, so good. - Svavar Kjarrval On 31/07/12 07:42, Toby Murray wrote: > On Mon, Jul 30, 2012 at 6:23 PM, Svavar Kjarrval wrote: >> Hi. >> >> I'm trying to collect POI information en masse in my home town by taking >> daily walks in different areas each day. I use the program OsmPad to >> collect housenumbers and it's good for that purpose but I have to stop >> for awhile when typing in additional information like a housename or >> construction year. Now I'm trying to collect information about POIs like >> shops and other amenities; I discovered that it would take an even >> greater time if I were to use the same method for them, nevermind that >> OsmPad was not designed for such a massive amount of information. >> >> It started to hit me that I needed a method which would enable me to >> quickly collect the information and continue with my walk, sorting out >> the information later, or handing it over for someone else to type in. >> >> I started to look into other programs and stumbled upon OSMTracker and >> noticed a photo feature and a voice recorder. Sadly, I cannot move the >> cursor around to configure the coordinates. Otherwise it would solve my >> problem because then I'd be able to take a picture of the entrance and >> know where on the building it was. When I'm fairly close to buildings, >> there's a danger of the GPS chip losing contact with satellites and the >> GPS coordinates to be less accurate. Also, it could be hard for someone >> else to review my data and know where exactly I'm pointing the camera. >> >> What methods do you use? Are there any programs for Android which could >> fit my needs? > You don't have to get everything right down to the centimeter. I > wouldn't worry too much about a little lost accuracy here and there. > If you're using OsmTracker then I assume you are editing in JOSM after > you get home where you can review your trace and correct for any > obvious GPS drifting. I've used OsmTracker a fair amount, sometimes in > a car, sometimes on foot. Note for car use: It geotags pictures at the > time that you exit the camera and return to OsmTracker, not when the > picture was actually taken. If you are traveling at 70 mph this can be > a big difference :) > > The other good option is to use a standalone GPS device and a camera. > Dedicated GPS devices tend to have better antennas than phones so you > don't have to worry about losing accuracy as much. Then you can match > the trace from the GPS device to your pictures based on timestamp in > JOSM and do your editing there where you can also reference aerial > imagery, assuming Bing has some in your area. > > Other Android apps are OsmAnd which lets you add POIs and upload them > directly to OSM from your phone. But it only allows you to capture > name and opening hours. > > There is also Vespucci which is pretty powerful but will also be slow > to use on the go. http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Vespucci > > Toby > > ___ > talk mailing list > talk@openstreetmap.org > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Naming disputes in Ukraine
On 02.08.2012 20:57, Lester Caine wrote: > iONiX wrote: >> What when street is renamed and you want to send a letter, or some poi >> is located there and have its official address with new name, but old >> signs are still installed (for months or years). Do You really still >> want to rely on those old signs on the street? > > Most definitely for the main rendered detail, and if there are two > different versions I would show them exactly where they appear on the > ground. But for additional information related to a particular language, > then that should simply be correctly tagged and stored. It may be that > there is an additional note that explains that one of two signs is > wrong, but until what is visible on the ground is changed, the base > information is well defined - even if it is totally wrong :) And that > applies everywhere in the world ... EVEN if some local authority try to > dictate otherwise. Have You read about new old naming? An I mean not old like russian and new like ukrainian, I mean it regardless the language. If I understand You correct - it is desirable to go through all exUSSR countries and change every object name tag to whatever is mentioned on signs? ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Naming disputes in Ukraine
iONiX wrote: What when street is renamed and you want to send a letter, or some poi is located there and have its official address with new name, but old signs are still installed (for months or years). Do You really still want to rely on those old signs on the street? Most definitely for the main rendered detail, and if there are two different versions I would show them exactly where they appear on the ground. But for additional information related to a particular language, then that should simply be correctly tagged and stored. It may be that there is an additional note that explains that one of two signs is wrong, but until what is visible on the ground is changed, the base information is well defined - even if it is totally wrong :) And that applies everywhere in the world ... EVEN if some local authority try to dictate otherwise. -- Lester Caine - G8HFL - Contact - http://lsces.co.uk/wiki/?page=contact L.S.Caine Electronic Services - http://lsces.co.uk EnquirySolve - http://enquirysolve.com/ Model Engineers Digital Workshop - http://medw.co.uk Rainbow Digital Media - http://rainbowdigitalmedia.co.uk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Naming disputes in Ukraine
Hi, how of it comes, than none of responses in ukrainian forum (http://forum.openstreetmap.org/viewtopic.php?id=17533) were quoted here? Neither this discussion here were referenced by DWG in that thread. Where can I see discussion of DWG members to this issue? I am still waiting for answers to my questions: > 1. Will be same decision made in other parts of the world, if similar > problems will come up? > 2. Information on signs is more important and should be retained in > OSM DB even if its proven to be wrong through legislation rulings? We showed examples in forum, why it is not that simple to follow "truth on the ground" rule in ukraine. Here are some examples from me: According to decision of DWG, I am allowed to put in name on this street ( http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/28294508 ): * Горпіщенко вулиця - based on this sign ( http://maps.yandex.ru/?ll=33.582431%2C44.575244&spn=0.322723%2C0.052269&z=12&l=map%2Cstv&ol=stv&oll=33.58243141%2C44.57524375&oid=&ost=dir%3A-781.4530422609022%2C0.3683170147894477~spn%3A53.227793344151856%2C22.314288181632726 ) * Горпищенко улица - based on this sign ( http://maps.yandex.ru/?ll=33.561943%2C44.598033&spn=0.080681%2C0.013062&z=14&l=map%2Cstv&ol=stv&oll=33.55808017%2C44.59803342&oid=&ost=dir%3A-864.3647996084189%2C0.18506825302051144~spn%3A53.227793344151856%2C22.314288181632726 ) In both cases it would be correct and not against the decision, because: * this are two different signs * they are not installed under each other * moreover, they are installed in totally different places (in case I see only one of those signs) It seems, this sign ( http://maps.yandex.ru/?ll=33.514916%2C44.585732&spn=1.290894%2C0.209039&z=10&l=map%2Cstv&ol=stv&oll=33.51491593%2C44.58573223&oid=&ost=dir%3A232.7167932632227%2C-2.0492579426501294~spn%3A53.227793344151856%2C22.314288181632726 ) does not have status part. In both languages name of the street is "Кожанова", but status part in ukrainian would be "вулиця" in russian "улица". Should status part be removed from street name completely? What when street is renamed and you want to send a letter, or some poi is located there and have its official address with new name, but old signs are still installed (for months or years). Do You really still want to rely on those old signs on the street? Here another quote from user Upliner: > However, I still hope for a more amicable solution. For example, > Belarusian community decided to use Russian language in "name" tag in > spite of the fact that there are lot of Belarusian street signs in > Minsk (I don't know how it is in other cities). For rendering in > Belarusian language they use separate Mapnik server. Do I have now permission from DWG to go and change all name tags on streets that have belarusian signs? I do not want to change name tags to ukrainian language in Crimea for now, but it is not an acceptable solution from DWG we now have to respect. Kind regards, iONiX ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] Final results "lost mappers" task force
As some may remember from mid-February 2012 to essentially up to the redaction bot started running, the LWG undertook to get in contact with largest remaining non-responders that hadn't accepted the new contributor terms. We worked through two lists of roughly 1000 contributors each. The first list containing (nearly) all non-responders that had created at least 100 highways, the smallest being around place 20'000 in overall contributor ranking. The second list expanded the coverage down to the mark of 40 created highways (which corresponded roughly to rank 30'000). For both lists we had access to the e-mail address configured in the mappers profile, the data was made available under a confidentiality agreement and will now be destroyed. A further note: by February all of the accounts in the list had had at least two e-mails asking them to agree sent to the address configured in the account, the 2nd mail in their local language for the overwhelming majority of all mappers. >From an original 1014 contributors in the first group a total of 495 agreed, resulting in a nearly 50% success rate. Of the 2nd group of 959, 362 agreed, giving a success rate of 38%. There was naturally some acceptances in both groups that weren't directly attributable to our efforts, but the residual acceptance rate before we started was very near zero and continued to be so after April the 1st up to a final effort just before the bot ran. I would like to thank everybody that helped in carrying this out, in some cases going to extremes to get hold of the contributors in question. Simon ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
