Re: [OSM-talk] Petites bizarreries sur Notre-Dame-des-Landes et Vigneux-de-Bretagne

2013-01-02 Thread Christian Rogel

Le 2 janv. 2013 à 16:06, Christian Rogel a écrit :

> Bonne année à tous,
> 
> En regardant les communes concernées par le futur aéroport de Nantes, j'ai 
> remarqué deux choses bizarres.
> 
> - Quand on zoome, le territoire de 2 des communes concernées (Notre-Dame et 
> Vigneux) devient uniformément vert.
> 
> http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=47.34729766845703&lon=-1.7159271240234375&zoom=13
> 
>   Quelqu'un a-t'il voulu indiquer qu'elles étaient un pays d'herbages pour y 
> élever des vaches en communauté?
> 
> - La forêt de Rohanne, là où sont la plus grande partie des habitats 
> protestataire a un contour interrompu que je n'ai pas pu réparer.
> 
> On voit qu'il y a eu une attention particulière pour la zone (cadastre, 
> quelques haies), mais, la difficulté est la mise à jour : la ferme 
> des Rosiers à Vigneux a été détruite par ordre des autorités, il y a quelques 
> semaines.


Sorry for wrong message in French. This was about two municipalities filled in 
green as environmentalists are fighting against  
a projected airport in their limits. A bit funny, maybe for some purpose, I 
guess.


Happy New Year to every OSM mapper.


Christian Rogel
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[OSM-talk] Historical OSM Hangout: 2013 01 09

2013-01-02 Thread Jeff Meyer
Happy New Year!

The next Historical OSM hangout will be held on 9 January 2013 at 9am
Seattle time, 5pm London time. Apologies to those on the other side of the
planet - we can shift the schedule on the next go-round.

Link:
https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/415172b9c7e5b8e3777d35dd974bafbdf0763d4f

Topics will include:
- Progress on getting the HO sandbox up and running - hopefully, we'll have
the HO rails port & a tile server of some sort running by then.
  -- hosm.gwhat.org (the rails port for HO) is temporarily down while I
mess around with getting the baseline planet straightened out
  -- There's a crude outline of the steps for generating the baseline
planet at:
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Historical_Sandbox#Base_Planet_Setup(this
needs to be cleaned up, for sure)
- Suggestions from the community for initial historical mapping focus areas
- if we can divide up the world into a variety of different projects - e.g.
various locations at various points in time, with no overlapping areas,
then we won't have to solve the issue of time-enabling tools out of the
gate.

Please let me know if you have any questions or suggestions.

Thanks,
Jeff

-- 
Jeff Meyer
Global World History Atlas
www.gwhat.org
j...@gwhat.org
206-676-2347
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Re: [OSM-talk] House Numbers

2013-01-02 Thread Gregory
On 2 January 2013 15:31, Russ Nelson  wrote:

> Gregory writes:
>  > It says I've mapped 7232.
>  > I expect I've done around 100 streets, so that works fine. But what's my
>  > rank?
>
> WHERE ARE ALL YOU PEOPLE FINDING ALL THESE HOUSES?? I'VE ADDRESSED
> EVERY HOUSE WITH AN HOUR'S BICYCLE RIDE OF MY HOUSE AND I'VE ONLY
> GOTTEN TO 932.
>
> I feel like I can't even begin to win this.
>
> Like all addicted mappers, I've moved house (multiple times) once I had
fully mapped where I live.

Anyway, what are those unnumbered buildings on Washington Street and
surrounding roads?
http://osm.org/go/Zd3I4aFLF-

What slows me down is the chore of doing the editing on the computer
afterwards.
I tried out Keypad Mapper (Android app), which makes it quick to upload
something, but not with out it's downsides, which includes still having to
trace buildings.
http://osm.org/go/evn8Ym3DO--

-- 
Gregory
o...@livingwithdragons.com
http://www.livingwithdragons.com
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Re: [OSM-talk] what to do cues

2013-01-02 Thread Russ Nelson
Jeff Meyer writes:
 > I agree that rules can be tricky. Would it be possible, to play around with
 > the code you've written, to see what results it generates?

I never got any rules written. I wrote enough code to get to the point
where I needed rules, and then couldn't come up with anything that I
thought would be reasonable!

 > The issue I'm trying to address is this: people who sign up for OSM & then
 > make 0 edits. Why? Is it because they cannot find the editor? Is it because
 > they don't know what to edit?

This site ought to be easier to use, but once it is, it would be a
good place to point people. http://ae.osmsurround.org/ae/index#
For example, if you're not logged in, it should say "Step 1: Login."
It doesn't. It lets you create a POI, and then says "Oh, you didn't
log in, you have to login first." Then once you do that, you lose the
information about your first POI.

We need a (if not that, then another) website in which every step is
downhill, culminating with people successfully making their first edit
to OSM, and then being told how to make their next edit. No stumbling
points, no uphill climb.

-- 
--my blog is athttp://blog.russnelson.com
Crynwr supports open source software
521 Pleasant Valley Rd. | +1 315-600-8815
Potsdam, NY 13676-3213  | Sheepdog   

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Re: [OSM-talk] what to do cues

2013-01-02 Thread Jeff Meyer
Robin - my apologies for my crankiness. You did not presume anything.

On Wed, Jan 2, 2013 at 5:59 AM, Robin Paulson  wrote:
>
>
> the point i was trying to make is that perhaps the experience is
> alienating because of all the new software, ideas, concepts that someone
> who wishes to map has to learn. instead of more software, more tools,
> perhaps what they need is someone talking with them?
>
> maybe they are the types that don't read help guides, that if they can't
> understand it straight away give up, rather than search for help or advice?


Yes, I believe it can be alienating because of all the tools. My goal is to
have something more integral to the editing or observation experience,
rather than taking people out of / away from OSM. It should be no more
intrusive than say Nominatim.

To you latter point, yes, I believe those types are 85+% of Internet users.

I'm not a long-time OSMer, but I've been working hard in my local hood & I
think I'd benefit from such assistance.

-- 
Jeff Meyer
Global World History Atlas
www.gwhat.org
j...@gwhat.org
206-676-2347
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Re: [OSM-talk] a license violation?

2013-01-02 Thread Tobias Knerr
> On 02/01/2013 15:20, Richard Weait wrote:
>> Tobias' suggestion that I could not hang this poster in my home unless
>> I tell every visitor about the data license seems to over reach what
>> is required by normal copyright.  I don't have to tell you that my
>> Picasso is a Picasso* when you come over for Mappy Hour. 

Does your home count as a public display of the produced work? I
actually don't know, and if it may be interpreted this way we might want
to clarify that we do not expect this from the owner of an OSM-derived
print.

But my intention was primarily to point out that the original vendor -
Axis Maps in this case - is not responsible if their customers violate
the license during re-sale or other relevant uses.

On 02.01.2013 18:11, Christopher Woods (IWD) wrote:
> Well, at least it looks like there is an attribution (at least from the
> bigcartel cropped image linked earlier in this thread) but it's so small
> so as to pretty much be invisible. More importantly, whilst it's
> following the letter, it's not following the spirit of the rule.

In my opinion, it's sufficient. Particularly considering that their own
attribution isn't larger either.

We wouldn't want to make OSM unsuitable for anything that is intended to
look good (posters, t-shirts, wedding cakes ...) by requiring big ugly
legalese.

Tobias

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Re: [OSM-talk] a license violation?

2013-01-02 Thread Christopher Woods (IWD)


On 02/01/2013 15:20, Richard Weait wrote:
On Wed, Jan 2, 2013 at 6:56 AM, Tobias Knerr > wrote:


Am 02.01.2013 11:41, Robin Paulson wrote:
> http://store.axismaps.com/product/boston-blue
>
> osm is mentioned on the web site, but not on the poster itself.
>
> suggestions, comments, etc. requested please.

I'm assuming that they only sell these posters though their site? In
that case, it is not a license violation if the site properly
attributes
OSM.*

If their customer then publicly displays or re-distributes these
posters
without informing the viewer/recipient about the source, the customer
would indeed be committing a license violation - but for that we
cannot
technically blame the original vendor.

Tobias

* I'm ignoring the missing link to the license for now.


Axis Maps spoke with LWG some time ago.  You can probably find them in 
the archives on this list as well.  Attribution on the map looks 
great, presuming that they made the map from pre-change data.  They 
also mention OSM on the site.  Both of those aspects seem good.


Has anybody contacted them to find out if the data and maps are older 
or newer?  If one was concerned about this issue, after seeing the 
attribution on the map, one could drop a note to 
le...@osmfoundation.org  and LWG will 
put it on their list for the next LWG meeting.


Tobias' suggestion that I could not hang this poster in my home unless 
I tell every visitor about the data license seems to over reach what 
is required by normal copyright.  I don't have to tell you that my 
Picasso is a Picasso* when you come over for Mappy Hour.


We are talking about a printed poster here, right?  If I bought one 
then made and sold copies, I suspect that Axis Maps would have issues 
with me copying without permission, just as the author of a book might 
not like me copying and reselling their book.  But if I were to copy 
and resell it, with the OSM attribution on it, I can't see a 
reasonable data-license-violation there.


Well, at least it looks like there is an attribution (at least from the 
bigcartel cropped image linked earlier in this thread) but it's so small 
so as to pretty much be invisible. More importantly, whilst it's 
following the letter, it's not following the spirit of the rule.


Is there no requirement that the attribution has to be visible (or 
clearly indicated), or at least a similar size to the other body copy? 
Having it overlaid on graphics in a tiny point size is a little 
disingenuous.
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[OSM-talk] Wikipedia slippymap

2013-01-02 Thread Svavar Kjarrval
Hi.

Wikipedia has implemented a Slippymap using OpenLayers so I was
wondering if the code/method is publically available? I'm interested in
adding that functionality to osm.is since it will encourage people to
use an OSM map rather than the other non-free maps available for
Iceland. I also know that some of the people in the Icelandic Wikipedia
would be interested since it will encourage people to check out articles
on is.wikipedia.

Could you help me find the source code for both the OpenLayers layer and
the server-side code which produces the coordinates of Wikipedia
articles in a certain area? I guess Wikipedia wouldn't like me to use
the resources of toolserver.org for it.

With regards,
Svavar Kjarrval





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Re: [OSM-talk] House Numbers

2013-01-02 Thread Svavar Kjarrval
On 02/01/13 15:31, Russ Nelson wrote:
> Gregory writes:
>  > It says I've mapped 7232.
>  > I expect I've done around 100 streets, so that works fine. But what's my
>  > rank?
>
> WHERE ARE ALL YOU PEOPLE FINDING ALL THESE HOUSES?? I'VE ADDRESSED
> EVERY HOUSE WITH AN HOUR'S BICYCLE RIDE OF MY HOUSE AND I'VE ONLY
> GOTTEN TO 932.
>
> I feel like I can't even begin to win this.
>
Live in the capital area in Iceland and people here have been somewhat
lazy collecting them. There were hardly any buildings even drawn before
the BING imagery became available. It's also a factor that I don't have
a job.

- Svavar Kjarrval



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Re: [OSM-talk] House Numbers

2013-01-02 Thread Russ Nelson
Gregory writes:
 > It says I've mapped 7232.
 > I expect I've done around 100 streets, so that works fine. But what's my
 > rank?

WHERE ARE ALL YOU PEOPLE FINDING ALL THESE HOUSES?? I'VE ADDRESSED
EVERY HOUSE WITH AN HOUR'S BICYCLE RIDE OF MY HOUSE AND I'VE ONLY
GOTTEN TO 932.

I feel like I can't even begin to win this.

-- 
--my blog is athttp://blog.russnelson.com
Crynwr supports open source software
521 Pleasant Valley Rd. | +1 315-600-8815
Potsdam, NY 13676-3213  | Sheepdog   

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Re: [OSM-talk] a license violation?

2013-01-02 Thread Richard Weait
On Wed, Jan 2, 2013 at 6:56 AM, Tobias Knerr  wrote:

> Am 02.01.2013 11:41, Robin Paulson wrote:
> > http://store.axismaps.com/product/boston-blue
> >
> > osm is mentioned on the web site, but not on the poster itself.
> >
> > suggestions, comments, etc. requested please.
>
> I'm assuming that they only sell these posters though their site? In
> that case, it is not a license violation if the site properly attributes
> OSM.*
>
> If their customer then publicly displays or re-distributes these posters
> without informing the viewer/recipient about the source, the customer
> would indeed be committing a license violation - but for that we cannot
> technically blame the original vendor.
>
> Tobias
>
> * I'm ignoring the missing link to the license for now.
>

Axis Maps spoke with LWG some time ago.  You can probably find them in the
archives on this list as well.  Attribution on the map looks great,
presuming that they made the map from pre-change data.  They also mention
OSM on the site.  Both of those aspects seem good.

Has anybody contacted them to find out if the data and maps are older or
newer?  If one was concerned about this issue, after seeing the attribution
on the map, one could drop a note to le...@osmfoundation.org and LWG will
put it on their list for the next LWG meeting.

Tobias' suggestion that I could not hang this poster in my home unless I
tell every visitor about the data license seems to over reach what is
required by normal copyright.  I don't have to tell you that my Picasso is
a Picasso* when you come over for Mappy Hour.

We are talking about a printed poster here, right?  If I bought one then
made and sold copies, I suspect that Axis Maps would have issues with me
copying without permission, just as the author of a book might not like me
copying and reselling their book.  But if I were to copy and resell it,
with the OSM attribution on it, I can't see a reasonable
data-license-violation there.

* /me does not actually have a Picasso :-)
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Re: [OSM-talk] a license violation?

2013-01-02 Thread Phil! Gold
* Robin Paulson  [2013-01-02 23:41 +1300]:
> i was looking for unusual uses of osm data, and found this:
> 
> http://store.axismaps.com/product/boston-blue
> 
> osm is mentioned on the web site, but not on the poster itself.

I have their DC poster and I'm pretty sure there's an attribution at the
bottom of the poster.  It's at home and I'm not, so I'll have to wait
until this evening to check it out.

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[OSM-talk] Petites bizarreries sur Notre-Dame-des-Landes et Vigneux-de-Bretagne

2013-01-02 Thread Christian Rogel
Bonne année à tous,

En regardant les communes concernées par le futur aéroport de Nantes, j'ai 
remarqué deux choses bizarres.

- Quand on zoome, le territoire de 2 des communes concernées (Notre-Dame et 
Vigneux) devient uniformément vert.

http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=47.34729766845703&lon=-1.7159271240234375&zoom=13

   Quelqu'un a-t'il voulu indiquer qu'elles étaient un pays d'herbages pour y 
élever des vaches en communauté?

- La forêt de Rohanne, là où sont la plus grande partie des habitats 
protestataire a un contour interrompu que je n'ai pas pu réparer.

On voit qu'il y a eu une attention particulière pour la zone (cadastre, 
quelques haies), mais, la difficulté est la mise à jour : la ferme 
des Rosiers à Vigneux a été détruite par ordre des autorités, il y a quelques 
semaines.

Christian Rogel



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Re: [OSM-talk] what to do cues

2013-01-02 Thread Robin Paulson

On 2013-01-02 18:26, Jeff Meyer wrote:

What do you mean, "The wrong route?" Is there a wrong route for
recruiting and engaging new mappers?


well, yes. any route which doesn't recruit or engage them.

and i'm not keen on the word recruit anyway, it makes OSM sound like 
the army, or a cult



As for interacting, why are you presuming I have not done so?


well, i didn't presume so. i asked if so

the point i was trying to make is that perhaps the experience is 
alienating because of all the new software, ideas, concepts that someone 
who wishes to map has to learn. instead of more software, more tools, 
perhaps what they need is someone talking with them?


maybe they are the types that don't read help guides, that if they 
can't understand it straight away give up, rather than search for help 
or advice?



 On Tue, Jan 1, 2013 at 8:58 PM, Robin Paulson 
 The issue Im trying to address is this: people who sign up for
OSM &

then make 0 edits. Why? Is it because they cannot find the
editor? Is
it because they dont know what to edit?


have you tried good old human interaction? rather than trying to
second guess them and spending a lot of time creating some tool
which doesnt address the problem, maybe ask why they dont
contribute?

this isnt at all answering the question you asked, but i think you
may have asked a question which takes you down the wrong route.


--
robin

http://universitywithoutconditions.ac.nz - Auckland's Free University

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Re: [OSM-talk] House Numbers

2013-01-02 Thread Gregory
It says I've mapped 7232.
I expect I've done around 100 streets, so that works fine. But what's my
rank?

Extra points for postcodes (although often I leave these to the related
street), relations with street(s), and building outlines?
This list might encourage me to get some more, although more likely is
seeing the holes I have. The evenings are getting lighter, I'll continue
soon!

On 31 December 2012 09:26, Ed Loach  wrote:

> > According to this list, 208 accounts have added more than 10k
> house
> > numbers - if any one of them has actually surveyed that many
> > houses they
> > should be awarded a prize!
>
> While I'm surprised that my entry is as high as it is, it is
> entirely possible that I've added almost 40,000 house numbers from
> survey - it has been my main focus of mapping locally since all the
> roads were done. I had a week off work in August where a babysitter
> for the mornings meant I surveyed over 4000 more houses in that week
> alone (it always takes longer to add them to OSM than to collect
> them), so as I've been working on them since probably late 2009 it
> is quite likely the number is correct. I'm hoping to get a couple of
> free hours this afternoon to do some more (having finally caught up
> with entering data from previous surveys yesterday).
>
> A quick check on my local extract gives 37,552 buildings for which I
> am the last editor. While some don't have house numbers I have added
> addresses outside the local area as well when I've had some spare
> time (such as a patch around my parents, or a patch around where
> I've taken eldest daughter to university interviews while I'm
> waiting, and similar).
>
> Ed
>
>
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-- 
Gregory
o...@livingwithdragons.com
http://www.livingwithdragons.com
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Re: [OSM-talk] OSMF Trademark Policy

2013-01-02 Thread Gregory
Let's not forget that the trademark policy will also need to cover usage on
edible goods.
http://www.livingwithdragons.com/2009/08/london-parties


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Re: [OSM-talk] a license violation?

2013-01-02 Thread Tobias Knerr
Am 02.01.2013 11:41, Robin Paulson wrote:
> http://store.axismaps.com/product/boston-blue
> 
> osm is mentioned on the web site, but not on the poster itself.
> 
> suggestions, comments, etc. requested please.

I'm assuming that they only sell these posters though their site? In
that case, it is not a license violation if the site properly attributes
OSM.*

If their customer then publicly displays or re-distributes these posters
without informing the viewer/recipient about the source, the customer
would indeed be committing a license violation - but for that we cannot
technically blame the original vendor.

Tobias

* I'm ignoring the missing link to the license for now.

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Re: [OSM-talk] a license violation?

2013-01-02 Thread Christian Quest
It really looks like attribution is printed on the maps:
http://cache1.bigcartel.com/product_images/67648021/mainProduct_Boston_cropped.jpg

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Re: [OSM-talk] a license violation?

2013-01-02 Thread Robin Paulson

On 2013-01-02 23:46, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote:

2013/1/2 Robin Paulson :

i was looking for unusual uses of osm data, and found this:

http://store.axismaps.com/product/boston-blue



"Oops! We couldn’t find that page."


are you sure?

try from here::
http://store.axismaps.com/category/boston

then click on 'blue'

--
robin

http://universitywithoutconditions.ac.nz - Auckland's Free University

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Re: [OSM-talk] a license violation?

2013-01-02 Thread Christopher Woods (IWD)


On 02/01/2013 10:46, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote:

2013/1/2 Robin Paulson :

i was looking for unusual uses of osm data, and found this:

http://store.axismaps.com/product/boston-blue


"Oops! We couldn’t find that page."
Took a quick look at the store homepage and clicked through to the 
"Boston typographic map" (they're all the same AFAICT). All printed maps 
don't appear to state origin of data used as a basis for map layouts. As 
such, although they're not simple reprints of tiles (for e.g.) the 
licence is still being breached.


From the OSM FAQ page, some interesting and likely relevant sections 
(http://www.osmfoundation.org/wiki/License#What_do_you_mean_by_.22Attribution.22.3F):


"How should I attribute you?

"Our requested attribution is "© OpenStreetMap contributors".
You must make it clear that the data is available under the Open 
Database Licence. This can be achieved by providing a "License" or 
"Terms" link which links to www.openstreetmap.org/copyright or 
www.opendatacommons.org/licenses/odbl.
We ask that you hyperlink the attribution to www.openstreetmap.org where 
possible. Because OpenStreetMap is its contributors, you may omit the 
word "contributors" if space is limited.


"You may optionally qualify the credit to explain what OSM content you 
are using. For example, if you have rendered OSM data to your own 
design, you may wish to use "Map data © OpenStreetMap contributors".


"(If you are using map tiles supplied by us, you must also make it clear 
that the tiles are available under the Creative Commons 
Attribution-ShareAlike 2.0 licence. This may also be fulfilled by 
linking to www.openstreetmap.org/copyright.)"


...

"For a printed map, the credit should appear beside the map if that is 
where other such credits appear, and/or in the "acknowledgements" 
section of the publication (often at the start of a book or magazine)."


...

"In brief summary:

"If you correct or extend our data, you need to share your new data. If 
you make a map from our data, you may publish the map itself under any 
license you like, including commercial. You DO however, have to share 
the underlying data except that ...


You may also add separate and distinct layers to your map made from 
other sources of data. This data does not have to be shared, provided 
there is no interaction with the OpenStreetMap derived layer. For 
example, you cannot have a layer of restaurant icons that only appear if 
the same restaurant is not in OpenStreetMap!


"In more detail:"

...
"If you make a map from OpenStreetMap geodata and publish it, you may 
publish the map under any license you like. In ODbL parlance, this is 
known as a "Produced Work".


"However, if you have added to or enhanced our data in order to make the 
map, you must make those additions publicly available without charge. 
Also, anyone can extract the original data from the map, (such as 
latitude and longitudes, names of streets and places), without paying 
you or asking your permission.


"You can however, put separate and distinct data layers on top of your 
map, such as icons showing specialists points of interest, routes, track 
logs, shaded areas, contours and the like, then Share-Alike does not 
apply to these elements as long as they do not interact with the map 
underneath."


[quotes end]

The last section is the most eyebrow raising section for me. IANAL but 
my interpretation of the OSM licence (based upon experience of 
interpretation of licenses in my day job) means axismaps doesn't have a 
leg to stand on if OSM is their sole source of cartographic and 
topographical data.


Technically I believe they are in a corner -- however I propose a more 
gracious and mutually beneficical arrangement: someone appropriate from 
OSM contacts them, explains the situation and propose some form of 
remediation: a nonexclusive licence to distribute already-printed maps 
without on-page attribution; for all new print runs, the appropriate 
line(s) of attributive text, agreed by both parties; and a donation to 
OSM for every map sold, payable quarterly/six monthly/annually. An 
initial upfront donation wouldn't go amiss.


That they're based in the UK should make this easier to pursue.

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Re: [OSM-talk] a license violation?

2013-01-02 Thread Martin Koppenhoefer
2013/1/2 Robin Paulson :
> i was looking for unusual uses of osm data, and found this:
>
> http://store.axismaps.com/product/boston-blue


"Oops! We couldn’t find that page."

cheers,
Martin

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[OSM-talk] a license violation?

2013-01-02 Thread Robin Paulson

i was looking for unusual uses of osm data, and found this:

http://store.axismaps.com/product/boston-blue

osm is mentioned on the web site, but not on the poster itself.

suggestions, comments, etc. requested please.

--
robin

http://universitywithoutconditions.ac.nz - Auckland's Free University

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