Re: [OSM-talk] Good practices violated?

[Toby Murray]

Yes, this is kind of tagging for the renderer however I believe there are
some legitimate technical reasons why it is needed - specifically with
administrative boundaries. The first thing that comes to mind is that while
rendering based on outlines seems nice, the centroid of a city/country is
not always where the label needs to be put. Take the USA for example. If
you compute the centroid of the entire boundary relation, Hawaii and Alaska
are going to pull it to the northwest and you will end up with a label that
is not in Kansas where it belongs. I suppose you could usually just use the
largest contiguous area to compute centroids for labels but it is a
complicated matter. And even then, it would diverge from what people expect
in many situations. Most maps put city labels in the social or economic
center of the city, not the centroid of the outline. In my city the
centroid would probably put the label in or near the university campus
which would be awkward on a map.

What has been done in a lot of situations is adding the node to the
relation with a role of "label" as an explicit rendering hint. In theory
the node would not need to be tagged with duplicate name/place information
if it is part of the relation but of course before any such change could
happen, tools would need to change first otherwise all city labels on
osm.org would vanish.

I am curious about your statement about names being rendered multiple
times. The only time I have seen this is with multipolygon relations. And
on Cyclemap where city labels *are* rendered based on the outlines instead
of the nodes. City exclaves each generate their own label which leads to
decidedly sub-optimal renderings like this:
http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=38.8226&lon=-97.617&zoom=12&layers=C

Toby




On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 7:54 PM, Jakub  wrote:

>  I do not want to sound too radical, but it is quite astonishing, how *Good
> practices  can sometime
> radically differ from apparently widely accepted and even promoted usage.*Let 
> me point out an example of what I mean, but I beleive that the problem
> is much wider than this particular case:
>
> *Countries on nodes vs areas vs relations*
>
> On one hand there is a:
>
>- widely used practice to map country *both as node and relation* (and
>sometimes area)
>- suggestion that the place=country should be placed on node see 
> Place
> - suggestion that  
> Key:placeshould be used on node 
> or area (relation not mentioned)
>- suggestion to
>
> and on the other hand there is a:
>
>- Principle Don't map for the 
> renderer- which 
> is clearly violated by tagging node as a country, because country
>is not a node and in fact this node is only ment for renderer (supported by
>giving this node a label role in country relation)
>- Principle One feature, one OSM 
> element- 
> which is clearly violated by fact that the tags are repeated both on node
>and realtion (or area). This practice is not only used it is also
>encouraged by wiki pages.
>
> Now, please do not get me wrong, I might be wrong and there might be some
> reason for that. If there is one, I would like to correct the documentation
> and rewrite Good practices (or list exceptions to them). If there is no
> reason I would like to clan up the data, but surely there should be some
> consensus on that and the consensus should be very well documented so there
> is not confusion in the future.
>
> Thanks for help
>
> Jakub
>
> PS: I beleive that this problem is much more general, it is also true with
> all sorts of regions, cities and villages. Names are rendered two or three
> times and is not good at all.
>
>
>
> ___
> talk mailing list
> talk@openstreetmap.org
> http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
>
>
___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

[OSM-talk] Good practices violated?

[Jakub]

I do not want to sound too radical, but it is quite astonishing, how 
*Good practices  can 
sometime radically differ from apparently widely accepted and even 
promoted usage.* Let me point out an example of what I mean, but I 
beleive that the problem is much wider than this particular case:


*Countries on nodes vs areas vs relations*

On one hand there is a:

 * widely used practice to map country *both as node and relation*
   (and sometimes area)
 * suggestion that the place=country should be placed on node see
   Place 
 * suggestion that Key:place
    should be used on
   node or area (relation not mentioned)
 * suggestion to

and on the other hand there is a:

 * PrincipleDon't map for the renderer
   -
   which is clearly violated by tagging node as a country, because
   country is not a node and in fact this node is only ment for
   renderer (supported by giving this node a label role in country
   relation)
 * Principle One feature, one OSM element
   
   - which is clearly violated by fact that the tags are repeated
   both on node and realtion (or area). This practice is not only
   used it is also encouraged by wiki pages.

Now, please do not get me wrong, I might be wrong and there might be 
some reason for that. If there is one, I would like to correct the 
documentation and rewrite Good practices (or list exceptions to them). 
If there is no reason I would like to clan up the data, but surely 
there should be some consensus on that and the consensus should be 
very well documented so there is not confusion in the future.


Thanks for help

Jakub

PS: I beleive that this problem is much more general, it is also true 
with all sorts of regions, cities and villages. Names are rendered two 
or three times and is not good at all.



___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

[OSM-talk] Early Bird sign-up for State of the Map 2013 closing soon

[Henk Hoff]

Hi all,

As you all know, this year the State of the Map conference will be held in
Birmingham.

Just a quick heads up that the early bird sign-up is closing soon (this
Friday). If you're planning on going (and you are :-) ), don't forget to
sign up before the end of the week to get an early bird ticket.
http://2013.stateofthemap.org/info/booking/

Also, if you want to share something with the community by giving a
presentation, please have a look at
http://2013.stateofthemap.org/info/call-presentations/

Hope to see you all in Birmingham 6-8 September 2013!

Henk
___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] Appeal for a JOSM fieldpapers plugin

[Robert Banick]

Indeed, I can't stress enough how useful this would be


On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 9:37 AM, Douglas Musaazi
wrote:

> +1
>
> A week ago, the same issue was raised on a mapping event where the field
> papers were used, so i totally agree with the appeal for a JOSM
> fieldpapers plugin
>
> http://josm.openstreetmap.de/ticket/8738
>
> Yours Truly
>
> Douglas Ssebaggala Musaazi
> Mobile:   +256-772-422524
>
>
> http://www.mountbatten.net/
> http://www.mappingday.com/
> http://www.twitter.com/mapuganda
>
> Keep In Touch
>   --
>  *From:* "talk-requ...@openstreetmap.org" 
> *To:* talk@openstreetmap.org
> *Sent:* Monday, May 27, 2013 3:00 PM
> *Subject:* talk Digest, Vol 105, Issue 55
>
> Send talk mailing list submissions to
> talk@openstreetmap.org
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> talk-requ...@openstreetmap.org
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> talk-ow...@openstreetmap.org
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of talk digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
>   1. Appeal for a JOSM fieldpapers plugin to replacewalkingpapers
>   (maning sambale)
>   2. Re: Appeal for a JOSM fieldpapers plugin to replace
>   walkingpapers (RB)
>
>
> --
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Mon, 27 May 2013 17:19:25 +0800
> From: maning sambale 
> To: osm-talk 
> Subject: [OSM-talk] Appeal for a JOSM fieldpapers plugin to replace
> walkingpapers
> Message-ID:
> 
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>
> Dear osm-talk,
>
> Posting this appeal to the general talk list. Hoping someone can catch
> this. ;)
> Back story: We use walkingpapers a lot for community mapping, it would
> be nice for a plugin that uses fieldpapers.
>
> Filed ticket: http://josm.openstreetmap.de/ticket/8738
> Modify the walkingpapers plugin to use fieldpapers instead
> Description
> Walkingpapers is currently unmaintained for over a year now.
> Requesting a modification or a new plugin that uses fieldpapers
> instead.
>
> Thanks!
>
> --
> cheers,
> maning
> --
> "Freedom is still the most radical idea of all" -N.Branden
> wiki: http://esambale.wikispaces.com/
> blog: http://epsg4253.wordpress.com/
> --
>
>
>
> --
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Mon, 27 May 2013 12:23:22 +0300
> From: RB 
> To: maning sambale 
> Cc: openstreetmap 
> Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Appeal for a JOSM fieldpapers plugin to
> replacewalkingpapers
> Message-ID:
> 
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> I support very much this idea. It would be very useful.
> Le 27 mai 2013 12:22, "maning sambale"  a
> ?crit :
>
> > Dear osm-talk,
> >
> > Posting this appeal to the general talk list. Hoping someone can catch
> > this. ;)
> > Back story: We use walkingpapers a lot for community mapping, it would
> > be nice for a plugin that uses fieldpapers.
> >
> > Filed ticket: http://josm.openstreetmap.de/ticket/8738
> > Modify the walkingpapers plugin to use fieldpapers instead
> > Description
> > Walkingpapers is currently unmaintained for over a year now.
> > Requesting a modification or a new plugin that uses fieldpapers
> > instead.
> >
> > Thanks!
> >
> > --
> > cheers,
> > maning
> > --
> > "Freedom is still the most radical idea of all" -N.Branden
> > wiki: http://esambale.wikispaces.com/
> > blog: http://epsg4253.wordpress.com/
> > --
> >
> > ___
> > talk mailing list
> > talk@openstreetmap.org
> > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
> >
> -- next part --
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL: <
> http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk/attachments/20130527/467b328c/attachment-0001.html
> >
>
> --
>
> ___
> talk mailing list
> talk@openstreetmap.org
> http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
>
>
> End of talk Digest, Vol 105, Issue 55
> *
>
>
>
> ___
> talk mailing list
> talk@openstreetmap.org
> http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
>
>
___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

[OSM-talk] Appeal for a JOSM fieldpapers plugin

[Douglas Musaazi]

+1

A week ago, the same issue was raised on a mapping event where the field papers 
were used, so i totally agree with the appeal for a JOSM fieldpapers plugin
 
http://josm.openstreetmap.de/ticket/8738


Yours Truly


Douglas Ssebaggala Musaazi
Mobile:   +256-772-422524


http://www.mountbatten.net/
http://www.mappingday.com/
http://www.twitter.com/mapuganda


Keep In Touch 



 From: "talk-requ...@openstreetmap.org" 
To: talk@openstreetmap.org 
Sent: Monday, May 27, 2013 3:00 PM
Subject: talk Digest, Vol 105, Issue 55
 

Send talk mailing list submissions to
    talk@openstreetmap.org

To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
    http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
    talk-requ...@openstreetmap.org

You can reach the person managing the list at
    talk-ow...@openstreetmap.org

When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of talk digest..."


Today's Topics:

   1. Appeal for a JOSM fieldpapers plugin to replace    walkingpapers
      (maning sambale)
   2. Re: Appeal for a JOSM fieldpapers plugin to replace
      walkingpapers (RB)


--

Message: 1
Date: Mon, 27 May 2013 17:19:25 +0800
From: maning sambale 
To: osm-talk 
Subject: [OSM-talk] Appeal for a JOSM fieldpapers plugin to replace
    walkingpapers
Message-ID:
    
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

Dear osm-talk,

Posting this appeal to the general talk list. Hoping someone can catch this. ;)
Back story: We use walkingpapers a lot for community mapping, it would
be nice for a plugin that uses fieldpapers.

Filed ticket: http://josm.openstreetmap.de/ticket/8738
Modify the walkingpapers plugin to use fieldpapers instead
Description
Walkingpapers is currently unmaintained for over a year now.
Requesting a modification or a new plugin that uses fieldpapers
instead.

Thanks!

--
cheers,
maning
--
"Freedom is still the most radical idea of all" -N.Branden
wiki: http://esambale.wikispaces.com/
blog: http://epsg4253.wordpress.com/
--



--

Message: 2
Date: Mon, 27 May 2013 12:23:22 +0300
From: RB 
To: maning sambale 
Cc: openstreetmap 
Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Appeal for a JOSM fieldpapers plugin to
    replace    walkingpapers
Message-ID:
    
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

I support very much this idea. It would be very useful.
Le 27 mai 2013 12:22, "maning sambale"  a
?crit :

> Dear osm-talk,
>
> Posting this appeal to the general talk list. Hoping someone can catch
> this. ;)
> Back story: We use walkingpapers a lot for community mapping, it would
> be nice for a plugin that uses fieldpapers.
>
> Filed ticket: http://josm.openstreetmap.de/ticket/8738
> Modify the walkingpapers plugin to use fieldpapers instead
> Description
> Walkingpapers is currently unmaintained for over a year now.
> Requesting a modification or a new plugin that uses fieldpapers
> instead.
>
> Thanks!
>
> --
> cheers,
> maning
> --
> "Freedom is still the most radical idea of all" -N.Branden
> wiki: http://esambale.wikispaces.com/
> blog: http://epsg4253.wordpress.com/
> --
>
> ___
> talk mailing list
> talk@openstreetmap.org
> http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
>
-- next part --
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: 


--

___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk


End of talk Digest, Vol 105, Issue 55
*___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

[OSM-talk] JOSM plugin for Keypad-Mapper 3

[Markus Semm]

Hello,


 

the implementation of the improvements of the Keypad-Mapper 3 Android app makes 
good progress:
I am planning to provide a 3.1 beta test version on Jun 10th, so in 2 weeks 
from now.


 

With this new version the app has reached a very good degree of efficiency 
regarding quick and accurate mapping of house numbers and addresses.


Details can be found here: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Keypad-Mapper_3 
 


 

Currently not yet optimal is the time needed for post processing the mapped 
data in JOSM before uploading it to OSM.


Due to the huge amount of house numbers and addresses missing in OSM it makes 
sense to address this topic and to provide an improved solution.


 

With this message I would like to initiate a discussion regarding the features 
of a potential JOSM plugin that could assist in post processing the 
Keypad-Mapper 3 data as quick and accurate as possible.


 

I have setup a new WIKI page at 
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Keypad-Mapper_tools 
  serving as a starting 
point for this discussion as well as serving as a container for compiling the 
outcome of the discussion.


 

Thanks a lot for supporting Keypad-Mapper 3!


 

Cheers


Markus

 
___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk