Re: [OSM-talk] Tagging POI's - Nodes vs. areas

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

> Am 21.04.2015 um 17:31 schrieb pmailkeey . :
> 
> No area should be plotted as a point. That's just one of OSM's nightmarish 
> disasters.


+1, basically you would tag buildings with the building tag, and either the 
building type or yes as value, while functions are tagged with different tags.

building=hospital doesn't say there is an active hospital, it only states there 
is a hospital building. 

On the other hand, functions like schools or hospitals typically extend beyond 
a single building (eg there might be a yard, a garden/lawn, a parking etc), so 
the "normal" situation would be to map an area for this function and within the 
buildings with their building types (or yes).

If you encounter a building that is (entirely or at least for one entire floor) 
occupied by something that doesn't extend beyond the building area it might 
still be better not to mix these 2 entities on the same object (but I admit it 
is frequently done). If you want to distinguish between these two you can for 
example map the building as area and create a multipolygon relation with just 
one outer member (the building) for the function. Alternatively you would have 
to create an overlapping way which is less elegant and harder to edit, or you 
just use a node inside, what will loose information (about the extent).

Cheers 
Martin 
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Re: [OSM-talk] iD Security

[phil]

On Tue Apr 21 16:10:09 2015 GMT+0100, pmailkeey . wrote:
> On 21 April 2015 at 15:58, Serge Wroclawski  wrote:
> 
> > Seeing the ticket, I think that the behavior here is what I'd expect
> > it to be, and what I think many people would expect as well.
> >
> > It doesn't seem like this is related to iD ignoring cookies, but about
> > how you were logged into an account and authorized iD to edit on
> > behalf of one of them. I'm not sure that iD could really be doing
> > anything radically different.
> >
> > This is no different than other sites which use cross site
> > authentication systems, ie Google, Facebook, etc.
> >
> > As for it being a security issue- if you logged out of osm.org before
> > authenticating yourself from iD, then yes, I see a potential serious
> > problem, but that's not what I see reported here.
> >
> > - Serge
> >
> >
> >
> So if I'm logged in to osm as FRED you think it's ok for iD to allow me to
> use DERF's account - as that is what happened.
> 
You really should not be logging into anything on a computer that has shared 
accounts. 

DERF and FRED should be using different windows / linux accounts. 

Phil (trigpoint)

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Re: [OSM-talk] Tagging POI's - Nodes vs. areas

[pmailkeey .]

On 21 April 2015 at 16:21, Jan van Bekkum  wrote:

> If you use a relation shouldn't it be a site relation instead of a
> multipolygon?
>
> On Tue, Apr 21, 2015 at 4:24 PM Bryan Housel 
> wrote:
>
>> `amenity=hospital` is what makes it a proper hospital.  You can create a
>> node where the hospital is, or an area around the property of the
>> hospital.  Drawing either a node or an area is ok, but drawing areas is
>> preferred if you have time for it.
>>
>> If the hospital is just one building, you can add `building=yes` or
>> `building=hospital` to the amenity.   If the hospital is a campus of
>> several buildings, you can draw each building as well.  `building=*`
>> (anything) should make it render like a building/structure.   The actual
>> value of the building tag is not really used often (it’s considered a
>> description of what the building looks like, not what it is), so most
>> buildings are just tagged as `building=yes` unless they are really special
>> somehow.
>>
>> Thanks, Bryan
>>
>>
No area should be plotted as a point. That's just one of OSM's nightmarish
disasters.


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Re: [OSM-talk] Routing over areas

[pmailkeey .]

On 21 April 2015 at 15:52, Svavar Kjarrval  wrote:

> I wonder if similar adjustments could be made for streets with a low
> speed limit, especially where there are no pedestrian crossings nearby
> (be it imperfect data or there aren't any). Seems crazy to suggest that
> pedestrians and cyclers get a routing suggestion to go around to the end
> of the road and back to the other side instead of crossing the road *in
> the cases where a sane person would do exactly that*. Of course, it
> might need some extra tags to prevent suggestions like that where such
> behaviour is prohibited.
>
> - Svavar Kjarrval
>
> On 20/04/15 21:25, Rob Nickerson wrote:
> > Interesting article for any routing experts:
> >
> > http://anitagraser.com/2015/04/17/routing-in-polygon-layers-yes-we-can/
> >
> > Rob
> >
>
>
If there's a direct route across the square, it should be on the route map
as a route - then it'd be correctly included in routing software solutions.

Mike.
@millomweb  -
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Re: [OSM-talk] Tagging POI's - Nodes vs. areas

[Jan van Bekkum]

If you use a relation shouldn't it be a site relation instead of a
multipolygon?

On Tue, Apr 21, 2015 at 4:24 PM Bryan Housel  wrote:

> `amenity=hospital` is what makes it a proper hospital.  You can create a
> node where the hospital is, or an area around the property of the
> hospital.  Drawing either a node or an area is ok, but drawing areas is
> preferred if you have time for it.
>
> If the hospital is just one building, you can add `building=yes` or
> `building=hospital` to the amenity.   If the hospital is a campus of
> several buildings, you can draw each building as well.  `building=*`
> (anything) should make it render like a building/structure.   The actual
> value of the building tag is not really used often (it’s considered a
> description of what the building looks like, not what it is), so most
> buildings are just tagged as `building=yes` unless they are really special
> somehow.
>
> Thanks, Bryan
>
>
>
>
> On Apr 21, 2015, at 9:58 AM, EthnicFood IsGreat <
> ethnicfoodisgr...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I want to know how to tag buildings which are also amenities or shops.  I
> have consulted the wiki and I cannot find a clear explanation of this.  Say
> you have a building which is a hospital.  One way to tag the polygon would
> be "building = hospital."  Another way would be "amenity = hospital."
> Another way would be to simply tag the building as "building = yes" and
> then place a node inside the building polygon and tag the node as "amenity
> = hospital."  I'm thinking in terms of how the hospital will show up in the
> various renderers.  Do most renderers require the "amenity" tag in order to
> display a hospital symbol at that location?  (In other words, what happens
> if I just use the "building = hospital" tag on the polygon and no amenity
> tag?)  And what about the hospital name?  Do I include it with the building
> polygon or the node?  Or both?  This is very confusing.  It seems there is
> a certain amount of overlap when it comes to the application of building,
> amenity, and shop tags.
>
> Mark Bradley
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Re: [OSM-talk] iD Security

[pmailkeey .]

On 21 April 2015 at 15:58, Serge Wroclawski  wrote:

> Seeing the ticket, I think that the behavior here is what I'd expect
> it to be, and what I think many people would expect as well.
>
> It doesn't seem like this is related to iD ignoring cookies, but about
> how you were logged into an account and authorized iD to edit on
> behalf of one of them. I'm not sure that iD could really be doing
> anything radically different.
>
> This is no different than other sites which use cross site
> authentication systems, ie Google, Facebook, etc.
>
> As for it being a security issue- if you logged out of osm.org before
> authenticating yourself from iD, then yes, I see a potential serious
> problem, but that's not what I see reported here.
>
> - Serge
>
>
>
So if I'm logged in to osm as FRED you think it's ok for iD to allow me to
use DERF's account - as that is what happened.

-- 
Mike.
@millomweb  -
For all your info on Millom and South Copeland
via *the area's premier website - *

*currently unavailable due to ongoing harassment of me, my family, property
& pets*

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Re: [OSM-talk] iD Security

[Serge Wroclawski]

Seeing the ticket, I think that the behavior here is what I'd expect
it to be, and what I think many people would expect as well.

It doesn't seem like this is related to iD ignoring cookies, but about
how you were logged into an account and authorized iD to edit on
behalf of one of them. I'm not sure that iD could really be doing
anything radically different.

This is no different than other sites which use cross site
authentication systems, ie Google, Facebook, etc.

As for it being a security issue- if you logged out of osm.org before
authenticating yourself from iD, then yes, I see a potential serious
problem, but that's not what I see reported here.

- Serge



On Tue, Apr 21, 2015 at 10:46 AM, Tom MacWright  wrote:
> Please link to the ticket: https://github.com/openstreetmap/iD/issues/2588
>
> On Tue, Apr 21, 2015 at 10:39 AM, pmailkeey . 
> wrote:
>>
>> Hi All,
>>
>> I've been using iD for a bit now to make map edits. I've been reporting
>> back issues with iD to Bryan including a recent discovery that when you log
>> out of iD, as it doesn't clear local cookies someone else can log in as you
>> in your absence. Bryan isn't interested in remedying this issue so I
>> wondered what other users felt about it.
>>
>> --
>> Mike.
>> @millomweb - For all your info on Millom and South Copeland
>> via the area's premier website -
>>
>> currently unavailable due to ongoing harassment of me, my family, property
>> & pets
>>
>> T&Cs
>>
>> ___
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>> talk@openstreetmap.org
>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
>>
>
>
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Re: [OSM-talk] Routing over areas

[Svavar Kjarrval]

I wonder if similar adjustments could be made for streets with a low
speed limit, especially where there are no pedestrian crossings nearby
(be it imperfect data or there aren't any). Seems crazy to suggest that
pedestrians and cyclers get a routing suggestion to go around to the end
of the road and back to the other side instead of crossing the road *in
the cases where a sane person would do exactly that*. Of course, it
might need some extra tags to prevent suggestions like that where such
behaviour is prohibited.

- Svavar Kjarrval

On 20/04/15 21:25, Rob Nickerson wrote:
> Interesting article for any routing experts:
>
> http://anitagraser.com/2015/04/17/routing-in-polygon-layers-yes-we-can/
>
> Rob
>
>
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Re: [OSM-talk] iD Security

[Serge Wroclawski]

Mike,

Have you filed a bug report on their issue tracker?

https://github.com/openstreetmap/iD/issues

I quick search didn't reveal anything.

https://github.com/openstreetmap/iD/issues?utf8=%E2%9C%93&q=cookie

- Serge

On Tue, Apr 21, 2015 at 10:39 AM, pmailkeey .  wrote:
> Hi All,
>
> I've been using iD for a bit now to make map edits. I've been reporting back
> issues with iD to Bryan including a recent discovery that when you log out
> of iD, as it doesn't clear local cookies someone else can log in as you in
> your absence. Bryan isn't interested in remedying this issue so I wondered
> what other users felt about it.
>
> --
> Mike.
> @millomweb - For all your info on Millom and South Copeland
> via the area's premier website -
>
> currently unavailable due to ongoing harassment of me, my family, property &
> pets
>
> T&Cs
>
> ___
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> talk@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
>

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Re: [OSM-talk] iD Security

[Tom MacWright]

Please link to the ticket: https://github.com/openstreetmap/iD/issues/2588

On Tue, Apr 21, 2015 at 10:39 AM, pmailkeey . 
wrote:

> Hi All,
>
> I've been using iD for a bit now to make map edits. I've been reporting
> back issues with iD to Bryan including a recent discovery that when you log
> out of iD, as it doesn't clear local cookies someone else can log in as you
> in your absence. Bryan isn't interested in remedying this issue so I
> wondered what other users felt about it.
>
> --
> Mike.
> @millomweb  -
> For all your info on Millom and South Copeland
> via *the area's premier website - *
>
> *currently unavailable due to ongoing harassment of me, my family,
> property & pets*
>
> T&Cs 
>
> ___
> talk mailing list
> talk@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
>
>
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[OSM-talk] iD Security

[pmailkeey .]

Hi All,

I've been using iD for a bit now to make map edits. I've been reporting
back issues with iD to Bryan including a recent discovery that when you log
out of iD, as it doesn't clear local cookies someone else can log in as you
in your absence. Bryan isn't interested in remedying this issue so I
wondered what other users felt about it.

-- 
Mike.
@millomweb  -
For all your info on Millom and South Copeland
via *the area's premier website - *

*currently unavailable due to ongoing harassment of me, my family, property
& pets*

T&Cs 
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Re: [OSM-talk] Tagging POI's - Nodes vs. areas

[Bryan Housel]

`amenity=hospital` is what makes it a proper hospital.  You can create a node 
where the hospital is, or an area around the property of the hospital.  Drawing 
either a node or an area is ok, but drawing areas is preferred if you have time 
for it.

If the hospital is just one building, you can add `building=yes` or 
`building=hospital` to the amenity.   If the hospital is a campus of several 
buildings, you can draw each building as well.  `building=*` (anything) should 
make it render like a building/structure.   The actual value of the building 
tag is not really used often (it’s considered a description of what the 
building looks like, not what it is), so most buildings are just tagged as 
`building=yes` unless they are really special somehow.

Thanks, Bryan




> On Apr 21, 2015, at 9:58 AM, EthnicFood IsGreat  
> wrote:
> 
> I want to know how to tag buildings which are also amenities or shops.  I 
> have consulted the wiki and I cannot find a clear explanation of this.  Say 
> you have a building which is a hospital.  One way to tag the polygon would be 
> "building = hospital."  Another way would be "amenity = hospital."  Another 
> way would be to simply tag the building as "building = yes" and then place a 
> node inside the building polygon and tag the node as "amenity = hospital."  
> I'm thinking in terms of how the hospital will show up in the various 
> renderers.  Do most renderers require the "amenity" tag in order to display a 
> hospital symbol at that location?  (In other words, what happens if I just 
> use the "building = hospital" tag on the polygon and no amenity tag?)  And 
> what about the hospital name?  Do I include it with the building polygon or 
> the node?  Or both?  This is very confusing.  It seems there is a certain 
> amount of overlap when it comes to the application of building, amenity, and 
> shop tags.
> 
> Mark Bradley
> ___
> talk mailing list
> talk@openstreetmap.org
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Re: [OSM-talk] Tagging POI's - Nodes vs. areas

[colliar]

Hey

While this email would rather suit tagging@ or help.openstreetmap.org I
gonna try to answer:

First of all, please, do not mix building-use and building=*. The later
is for the construction type which might overlap with the actual use.

amenity=hospital is the tag for a hospital and needed to get it rendered
but this can include several buildings and even the surrounding area.

Well, for a single building both might be needed:

amenity=hospital
building=hospital/yes
name=*

cu colliar


Am 21.04.2015 um 15:58 schrieb EthnicFood IsGreat:
> I want to know how to tag buildings which are also amenities or shops.  I
> have consulted the wiki and I cannot find a clear explanation of this.  Say
> you have a building which is a hospital.  One way to tag the polygon would
> be "building = hospital."  Another way would be "amenity = hospital."
> Another way would be to simply tag the building as "building = yes" and
> then place a node inside the building polygon and tag the node as "amenity
> = hospital."  I'm thinking in terms of how the hospital will show up in the
> various renderers.  Do most renderers require the "amenity" tag in order to
> display a hospital symbol at that location?  (In other words, what happens
> if I just use the "building = hospital" tag on the polygon and no amenity
> tag?)  And what about the hospital name?  Do I include it with the building
> polygon or the node?  Or both?  This is very confusing.  It seems there is
> a certain amount of overlap when it comes to the application of building,
> amenity, and shop tags.



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Re: [OSM-talk] Tagging POI's - Nodes vs. areas

[Serge Wroclawski]

Mark,

You're correct- there's no set standard here. OSM uses folksonomies
which overlap and change over time.

Specifically the question of tagging amenties or shops as buildings or
nodes is one where we as a community don't have complete consensus.
The general feeling in the US from my experience is that if a building
is only used for one thing, then tag it as such.

Your example of a hospital is exactly right- and so are many schools.

But then you have places where buildings are multi-use. I live in
Manhattan and single use buildings are the exception rather than the
norm here, so amenities or shops are usually tagged as nodes within
the bounds of the building. You're right that even here, hospitals are
exceptions- so are many (but not all) schools, and many (but not all)
places of worship.

To add to the confusion, you didn't even bring up the issue of
relations. What if a hospital consists of multiple buildings? That
would be a good candidate for a multipolygon relation, in which case
you'd add the tags like name to the relation.

Getting back to your question- this is a matter of opinion but here's
what I'd do if I was you:

If the building is a hospital, tag it as such. If the hospital has
only one building, the name of the hospital is the name of the
building.

If the hospital is a subsection of a larger building (floors 1-3) then
tag it as a node.

If the hospital is multi-building, then I'd tag each building as
building=hospital, set the name to whatever the building names are
(Building 1, or "Heart and Lung Center"), then make a multipolygon
relation consisting of each of the hospital facility, and set the
hospital name there.

- Serge

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[OSM-talk] Tagging POI's - Nodes vs. areas

[EthnicFood IsGreat]

I want to know how to tag buildings which are also amenities or shops.  I
have consulted the wiki and I cannot find a clear explanation of this.  Say
you have a building which is a hospital.  One way to tag the polygon would
be "building = hospital."  Another way would be "amenity = hospital."
Another way would be to simply tag the building as "building = yes" and
then place a node inside the building polygon and tag the node as "amenity
= hospital."  I'm thinking in terms of how the hospital will show up in the
various renderers.  Do most renderers require the "amenity" tag in order to
display a hospital symbol at that location?  (In other words, what happens
if I just use the "building = hospital" tag on the polygon and no amenity
tag?)  And what about the hospital name?  Do I include it with the building
polygon or the node?  Or both?  This is very confusing.  It seems there is
a certain amount of overlap when it comes to the application of building,
amenity, and shop tags.

Mark Bradley
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