[OSM-talk] weeklyOSM 276

2015-11-06 Thread Jinal Foflia 
The weekly round-up of OSM news, issue # 276, is now available online in
English, giving as always a summary of all things happening in the
openstreetmap world: http://www.weeklyosm.eu Enjoy! weeklyOSM is brought to
you by ... https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WeeklyOSM


Regards,
Jinal Foflia
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Re: [OSM-talk] Undiscussed (?) edits removing lesser-used highway=* tags

2015-11-06 Thread Andrew Guertin 

On 11/06/2015 05:01 PM, Andy Townsend wrote:

Previously there were quite a lot of changeset discussion comments
from GerdP asking about odd values:

http://resultmaps.neis-one.org/osm-discussions (scroll down a bit)


Ah! That's very good to see!

So perhaps I've overreacted a bit. I now see the problem as GerdP does a 
lot of good work and does typically communicate, but this time didn't 
discuss before deciding the undocumented tags residential_link and 
unclassified_link should be removed, which is a decision that really 
should be made by the community.


So hopefully we can get that discussion happening and get the tags put 
back (if that's the decision).


--Andrew

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Re: [OSM-talk] Proposal: Sunset ref=* on ways in, favor of relations

2015-11-06 Thread Richard Welty 
On 11/6/15 5:01 PM, Paul Johnson  wrote:

> > Stop rendering this key and instead render the relations

>> >
>> > Is there *any* map style that does this at the moment?
>> >
> I believe Toby had a working mapnik-based renderer doing this on osm.us at
> one point, though i'm not sure what became of this.
>
it was never on osm.us so far as i know. the demo is still up here:

http://bl.ocks.org/ToeBee/raw/6119134/#13/42.6276/-73.8955

Phil Gold did a lot of work on this, but he's been busy with other things
and i haven't heard of any work on this in a while. i got a lot of the NYS
county route shields up and running.

richard

-- 
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Re: [OSM-talk] Undiscussed (?) edits removing lesser-used highway=* tags

2015-11-06 Thread Andy Townsend 

On 06/11/2015 20:42, Andrew Guertin wrote:


An in-between example: on 
https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/38089492/history, 
highway=stepping_stones was replaced with highway=path. While this 
helps consumers use the data, it loses information that should have 
been kept (perhaps with surface=* or something similar).


Hmm - that does look like somewhere where data has been lost. Previously 
there were quite a lot of changeset discussion comments from GerdP 
asking about odd values:


http://resultmaps.neis-one.org/osm-discussions (scroll down a bit)

I'd have expected that that change would have merited a request to the 
original mapper too - surprised it didn't get one.




Does anyone know if this was discussed anywhere? I've contacted GerdP 
with a changeset comment at 
https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/35109232 but there hasn't 
(yet) been much time for a response. 


Given how quiet OSM traffic normally goes at weekends, I'd certainly 
wait until next week before assuming that you won't get a reply.




P.S.: We should have something like a clean...@osm.org mailing list so 
that these kinds of things have a place to be discussed, because there 
are a lot of positives to be had...




I'm not especially convinced of that - we've got the "tagging" list 
already for "how should X be tagged", and it's important that 
discussions about edits which at the very least border on the mechanical 
should be discussed by the wider community though. Sometimes "tagging" 
can turn into a bit of an echo chamber; it can appear to be full of 
people who tell other people how to map rather than do it themselves*, 
and I'd expect that "cleanups" would too. The "discuss" section of 
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Automated_Edits_code_of_conduct 
covers this already.


Cheers,

Andy (SomeoneElse)

* 
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/tagging/2015-October/027053.html 
guilty as charged :)






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Re: [OSM-talk] Undiscussed (?) edits removing lesser-used highway=* tags

2015-11-06 Thread Simon Poole 
Am 06.11.2015 um 21:42 schrieb Andrew Guertin:
> ...
> Does anyone know if this was discussed anywhere?
It seems to be a result of a misguided discussion on the tagging list,
which came to the conclusion that data consumers need to be protected
from the (typically very low number) the dangerous non-standardize
highway tags.

Naturally this is at odds with some basic principles of OSM and doesn't
change the fact that data consumers have to be able to deal with unknown
tag combinations in any case.



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[OSM-talk] Undiscussed (?) edits removing lesser-used highway=* tags

2015-11-06 Thread Andrew Guertin 

Hi,

The user GerdP seems to be going around editing things with unusual 
highway=* tags, apparently in an attempt to standardize them.


In my opinion, some of these changes are positive and some are negative, 
but the negatives outweigh the positives.


As a positive example, GerdP seems to have searched for highway=trunk on 
a node, and removed the tag. (e.g. 
https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/1245912029/history)


As a negative example, they seem to have deemed the tag 
highway=residential_link bad, and replaced it with either 
highway=service or highway=residential. 
(https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/18820600/history, 
https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/262798921/history).


An in-between example: on 
https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/38089492/history, 
highway=stepping_stones was replaced with highway=path. While this helps 
consumers use the data, it loses information that should have been kept 
(perhaps with surface=* or something similar).



Does anyone know if this was discussed anywhere? I've contacted GerdP 
with a changeset comment at 
https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/35109232 but there hasn't (yet) 
been much time for a response. Also note that this isn't a single 
changeset but rather something GerdP does regularly, so many changesets 
over many days.


--Andrew

P.S.: We should have something like a clean...@osm.org mailing list so 
that these kinds of things have a place to be discussed, because there 
are a lot of positives to be had...


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Re: [OSM-talk] [Tagging] Proposal: Sunset ref=* on ways in favor of relations

2015-11-06 Thread Martin Koppenhoefer 


sent from a phone

> Am 06.11.2015 um 14:00 schrieb Christoph Hormann :
> 
> AFAIK osm2pgsql does not support including relation membership info in 
> the rendering database.


it can make objects from multipoligon and route relations 

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Re: [OSM-talk] Suppression of spam

2015-11-06 Thread Tom Hughes 

On 06/11/15 14:49, Tom Taylor wrote:


All those "New Message" E-mails are coming through one account:
br...@desrocher.org. We've blocked them from the HOT list by putting
that account into moderation.


As I did on all the lists he was subscribed to about three hours ago you 
mean?


And the correct address for "OSM-Talk administrators" is
talk-ow...@openstreetmap.org not talk@openstreetmap.org ;-)

Tom

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[OSM-talk] Suppression of spam

2015-11-06 Thread Tom Taylor 

To OSM-Talk administrators:

All those "New Message" E-mails are coming through one account: 
br...@desrocher.org. We've blocked them from the HOT list by putting 
that account into moderation.


Tom Taylor

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Re: [OSM-talk] [Tagging] Proposal: Sunset ref=* on ways in favor of relations

2015-11-06 Thread Paul Johnson 
On Fri, Nov 6, 2015 at 7:00 AM, Christoph Hormann 
wrote:

> On Friday 06 November 2015, Paul Johnson wrote:
> > Stop rendering this key and instead render the relations
>
> Is there *any* map style that does this at the moment?
>

I believe Toby had a working mapnik-based renderer doing this on osm.us at
one point, though i'm not sure what became of this.
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Re: [OSM-talk] [Tagging] Proposal: Sunset ref=* on ways in favor of relations

2015-11-06 Thread Christoph Hormann 
On Friday 06 November 2015, Paul Johnson wrote:
> Stop rendering this key and instead render the relations 

Is there *any* map style that does this at the moment?

AFAIK osm2pgsql does not support including relation membership info in 
the rendering database.

-- 
Christoph Hormann
http://www.imagico.de/

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Re: [OSM-talk] [Tagging] Proposal: Sunset ref=* on ways in favor of relations

2015-11-06 Thread Martin Koppenhoefer 
2015-11-06 11:24 GMT+01:00 Paul Johnson :

> Even in European cases, thanks to "E" routes in the EU, this is decidedly
> not a strictly North American situation.




I agree with your analysis and the proposed fix (maybe we can be faster
than the deadline you suggest). FWIW, even without E-routes there are
overlapping routes in Europe (e.g. in Germany), but admittedly compared to
the US it is a rare phenomenon.

Cheers,
Martin
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