Re: [OSM-talk] Need some help

[Hans De Kryger]

*Regards,*

*Hans*

On Thu, Mar 3, 2016 at 12:57 AM, Janko Mihelić  wrote:

> All the new data on there should be ODbL too, am I right? It uses old OSM
> data so we should be able to use the new data.
>

​My guess is yes, i just checked it and the website is using data from at
least 2013 or newer so i'm assuming they'd have to accept osm's license
since that's years after the change. Hopefully that's what you meant Janko?

>
> uto, 1. ožu 2016. 02:54 Hans De Kryger  je
> napisao:
>
>> Got a reply from the website saying it's been fixed. You can see it for
>> yourself at the site below.
>>
>> https://coinmap.org/
>> On Feb 23, 2016 9:54 PM, "Hans De Kryger" 
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Feb 11, 2016 at 10:37 AM, Jo Walsh 
>>> wrote:
>>>

 And isn't this the project that caused a lot of problems because the
 users started adding all kind of services/shops/companies without a
 physical presence to the OSM data ? [2]

 [1] http://forum.openstreetmap.org/viewtopic.php?id=20859

 (April 14, 2013)
 [2] https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk/2014-May/069761.html



 This would seem to be the case:
 https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:Bitcoin



 Automated contributions via this account stopped 8 months ago:
 https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/BitcoinMaps




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>>>
>>>
>>> ​Just sent out an email to the website​
>>>
>>>
>>> *Regards,*
>>>
>>> *Hans*
>>>
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Re: [OSM-talk] OsmAnd financially rewarding mappers

[Dave F]

On 03/03/2016 22:23, Richard wrote:


imho it would be good if people would upload more often. Easier to revert
if it is wrong, more likely the changeset will fit into a reasonable
bounding box.


So, you're volunteering to be the head reversion honcho? Great; I'll 
pass them on you, as I'm spending far to much of my OSM time sorting out 
other peoples cock-ups.


I failing to see how not having to revert can possibly be quicker than 
having to!


It's disappointing to see there's a few people who actively advocate the 
adding of data that is knowingly incorrect.


Dave F.

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Re: [OSM-talk] OsmAnd financially rewarding mappers

[Richard]

On Thu, Mar 03, 2016 at 06:49:22PM +0100, moltonel 3x Combo wrote:
> On 03/03/2016, Marc Gemis  wrote:
> > My point is that it might attract people that just upload data without
> > any benefit to OSM (wrong data or data that is added in many
> > changetsets (because that determines the ranking) instead of 1, as you
> > would normally do..
> > You can even write a script that creates a point in one changeset and
> > deletes it in another. Over and over again.
> 
> Even without talking about nefarious schemes, even well-meaning users
> will tend to change their mapping behavior because of this. In this
> case it's about uploading more often, potentially making changes
> harder to follow. 

imho it would be good if people would upload more often. Easier to revert
if it is wrong, more likely the changeset will fit into a reasonable 
bounding box.

However they should check that the edit was not done by a script. I don't think
this is ever going to work without human judgment.

Richard

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Re: [OSM-talk] OsmAnd financially rewarding mappers

[Paul Johnson]

On Thu, Mar 3, 2016 at 12:17 PM, Frederik Ramm  wrote:

> Hi,
>
> On 03/03/2016 06:11 PM, joost schouppe wrote:
> > I am surprised to see so few negative reactions. Nothing against the
> > idea, but it should be better thought out to avoid perverse incentives.
>
> I have no problem with this. If this leads mappers to do stupid edits,
> DWG will have to revert them all... with an account registered for
> rewards of course ;)
>
> Bye
> Frederik
>
> PS pls to be activatink irony detektor


You're not fooling anyone, Pitr Dubovich.
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Re: [OSM-talk] OsmAnd financially rewarding mappers

[Frederik Ramm]

Hi,

On 03/03/2016 06:11 PM, joost schouppe wrote:
> I am surprised to see so few negative reactions. Nothing against the
> idea, but it should be better thought out to avoid perverse incentives.

I have no problem with this. If this leads mappers to do stupid edits,
DWG will have to revert them all... with an account registered for
rewards of course ;)

Bye
Frederik

PS pls to be activatink irony detektor

-- 
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Re: [OSM-talk] OsmAnd financially rewarding mappers

[moltonel 3x Combo]

On 03/03/2016, Marc Gemis  wrote:
> My point is that it might attract people that just upload data without
> any benefit to OSM (wrong data or data that is added in many
> changetsets (because that determines the ranking) instead of 1, as you
> would normally do..
> You can even write a script that creates a point in one changeset and
> deletes it in another. Over and over again.

Even without talking about nefarious schemes, even well-meaning users
will tend to change their mapping behavior because of this. In this
case it's about uploading more often, potentially making changes
harder to follow. Choose a differnet metric, and it'll have a
different problem. The HR industry has tried to find metrics of worker
productivity for decades, but most do not work.

Plenty of OSM projects have done various levels of edit gamification,
and this is fine as long as (counterintuitively) it doesn't push too
much contributors to edit. And when your start bringing money (even a
tiny amount) into the picture, behaviours can change drastically.


But encouraging contributions to OSM is a great idea, and OsmAnd is in
a nice position to do that. Some examples that probably wouldn't hurt:
* Give access to the paid version of OsmAnd if the user has passed
certain editing thresholds. This is similar to the original idea, but
there is no money directly involved, and most importantly this is a
once-off perk.
* Popup notifications about nearby QA issues, like Vespucci does.
* Look at the heatmap of the user's editing/visiting locations, and
prompt the user to go (re)survey if there is a nearby cold spot.

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Re: [OSM-talk] OsmAnd financially rewarding mappers

[Paul Johnson]

You realize that Osmand~ on f-droid is already Osmand+ right?

On Thu, Mar 3, 2016 at 11:11 AM, joost schouppe 
wrote:

> I am surprised to see so few negative reactions. Nothing against the idea,
> but it should be better thought out to avoid perverse incentives.
>
> A quick solution someone already suggested was handing out free Osmand+
> installs.
> On Thu, 3 Mar 2016 09:20:05 -0300
> Nicolás Alvarez  wrote:
>
> > The reason why I didn't try this yet is that they unnecessarily ask
> > me for my OSM *password* when signing up. There are much better ways
> > to verify the account...
>
> "We will give you money once you will share your password" sounds like a
> standard unimaginative scam.
>
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Re: [OSM-talk] OsmAnd financially rewarding mappers

[Nicolás Alvarez]

Why would they do that? Handing out free Osmand+ installs would *cost*
them money. This system *gets* them money (users donate, mappers get a
part, Osmand gets another part).

-- 
Nicolás

2016-03-03 14:11 GMT-03:00 joost schouppe :
> I am surprised to see so few negative reactions. Nothing against the idea,
> but it should be better thought out to avoid perverse incentives.
>
> A quick solution someone already suggested was handing out free Osmand+
> installs.
>
> On Thu, 3 Mar 2016 09:20:05 -0300
> Nicolás Alvarez  wrote:
>
>> The reason why I didn't try this yet is that they unnecessarily ask
>> me for my OSM *password* when signing up. There are much better ways
>> to verify the account...
>
> "We will give you money once you will share your password" sounds like a
> standard unimaginative scam.
>
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Re: [OSM-talk] OsmAnd financially rewarding mappers

[joost schouppe]

I am surprised to see so few negative reactions. Nothing against the idea,
but it should be better thought out to avoid perverse incentives.

A quick solution someone already suggested was handing out free Osmand+
installs.
On Thu, 3 Mar 2016 09:20:05 -0300
Nicolás Alvarez  wrote:

> The reason why I didn't try this yet is that they unnecessarily ask
> me for my OSM *password* when signing up. There are much better ways
> to verify the account...

"We will give you money once you will share your password" sounds like a
standard unimaginative scam.

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Re: [OSM-talk] OsmAnd financially rewarding mappers

[Marc Gemis]

Yeah, just created a dedicated OSM account and start adding points and
ways, who cares that they have that password. It does have to be your
normal OSM account with "serious" password.

My point is that it might attract people that just upload data without
any benefit to OSM (wrong data or data that is added in many
changetsets (because that determines the ranking) instead of 1, as you
would normally do..
You can even write a script that creates a point in one changeset and
deletes it in another. Over and over again.

I fear that we might have to do more QA when this gets widely known.
I'm not thinking about honest mappers here, just about people that
misuse the system to earn bitcoins.

regards

m

On Thu, Mar 3, 2016 at 5:52 PM, Mateusz Konieczny  wrote:
> On Thu, 3 Mar 2016 09:20:05 -0300
> Nicolás Alvarez  wrote:
>
>> The reason why I didn't try this yet is that they unnecessarily ask
>> me for my OSM *password* when signing up. There are much better ways
>> to verify the account...
>
> "We will give you money once you will share your password" sounds like a
> standard unimaginative scam.

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Re: [OSM-talk] OsmAnd financially rewarding mappers

[Mateusz Konieczny]

On Thu, 3 Mar 2016 09:20:05 -0300
Nicolás Alvarez  wrote:

> The reason why I didn't try this yet is that they unnecessarily ask
> me for my OSM *password* when signing up. There are much better ways
> to verify the account...

"We will give you money once you will share your password" sounds like a
standard unimaginative scam.

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[OSM-talk] WeeklyOSM 293

[Jinal Foflia]

The weekly round-up of OSM news, issue # 293, is now available online in
English, giving as always a summary of all things happening in the
OpenStreetMap world:

http://www.weeklyosm.eu/archives/7038
*Among others:*


   - Going to SotM Brussels? Look in here for the discount the visitors can
   get at a specific hotel ...
   - Games based on OSM, read more about the new release of a game using
   OSM data...
   - A very interesting interactive map about "every disputed territory" in
   the world...
   - Maps that could guide the visually impaired people? Yes it is
   possible, look in for the service provided by the Touch Mapper...
   - Deborah Farmer Kris explains why in this GPS era, children should
   learn how to read and draw maps...

   Enjoy! weeklyOSM is brought to you by ...
   https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WeeklyOSM
   Cheers,
   Jinal Foflia
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Re: [OSM-talk] osm2pgsql 0.90.0 release

[Jeff McKenna]

Thank you for the update Paul, I am excited to try the improved MSVC 
compiler support soon.  (I am currently upgrading to Visual Studio 2015, 
from an old 2008)


-jeff


--
Jeff McKenna
MapServer Consulting and Training Services
http://www.gatewaygeomatics.com/




On 2016-03-02 10:27 AM, Paul Norman wrote:

Osm2pgsql 0.90.0 has been released. The major changes since 0.88.0 are

- Windows support is much improved, and osm2pgsql builds natively with MSVC

- Osm2pgsql now requires a C++11 compiler

- Memory overhead for very small extracts is significantly reduced

- Multi-threading support is enabled for Windows

- The build system has switched from autotools to cmake

- Parsing is now done by libosmium and protobuf-c-compiler is not required

- Multi-backend improvements and bug fixes

- PBF support is no longer optional

- Legacy code from 32-bit node IDs has been removed

- Builds now generate no GCC or Clang warnings or errors

Upgrading is strongly recommended for anyone using the multi backend or
Windows.

This will be the last version that supports PostGIS 1.5 or PostgreSQL
9.0. Both of these have been end of life for some time.

Future version will also use EPSG 3857 by default, not 900913.

A full list of commits can be found at
https://github.com/openstreetmap/osm2pgsql/compare/0.88.0...0.90.0





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[OSM-talk] Student feedback request : Weighted product model for erroneous contributions in OSM

[Sam Grace]

Hello, as per advice posted here : 

https://help.openstreetmap.org/questions/47710/what-is-the-correct-avenue-for-contacting-the-osm-community-with-a-research-related-question

I am using the mailing list to seek feedback from the OSM community on the 
design of a weighting system that aims to grade erroneous contributions in  
OSM. Error candidates are selected from the full
history file if an object's geometry is modified and rolled back to a former 
state. The research focusses on rollbacks of way geometry. I've used Peter 
Korner's 'OSM history importer', which calculates linestrings for ways and 
'minor' way versions when way node members are moved. This allowed me to detect 
erroneous displacement of ways as well as erroneous node membership edits. 

Erroneously created ways are identified by association - If the repairer of an 
erroneously modified way also deleted a created way belonging to the same 
changeset this is added to the results.

I have attempted to design a weighted product model to represent their impact.
Below is a list of identified characteristics of the erroneous contributions 
that could attribute to
the relative loss of quality in the OSM dataset. The starting score is assigned 
according to the what type of object has been vandalled, 7 other factors 
moderate the given score up or down. 


***


Object type &  Starting score 

Categories are based on the most commonly occurring tags identified in a set of 
erroneous contributions on a sample extract of the full history file that best 
describe a way object. All objects that do not contain one of these tags are 
classed as 'other'. 


Start Score

1)building : yes
   0.25 
2)waterway='stream',' highway='other' AND all objects that don't fall under 
predefined category 0.5 
3)highway= 
'path','bridleway','footway','high','track','cycleway','river','canal'  
 2 
4)building : 'other'
   3 
5)boundary ='protected_area',' national_park','unclassified' ,'highway 
=residential'   4 
6)highway = 'tertiary','secondary','secondary_link','tertiary_link' 
5 

7)highway = 
'motorway','trunc','primary','secondary','motorway_link','trunc_link','primary_link',
 

boundary = 'administrative  
 7 

**



moderate 1 – relative length of way
Each record in the  sample dataset, including the error candidates are graded 
into pentile buckets according to their length relative to other records 
classed in the same category. The starting scores are multiplied by factors 
according the reverted way relative length. As length is not applicable to 
buildings they are all multiplied by 0.5 regardless of their length.



  multiplication factor


1)object length in top 20 percentile
1 2)object length in top 40 percentile  
  0.8 
3)object length in top 60 percentile
0.6 
4)object length in top 80 percentile 0.4
0.4 
5)object length in bottom 20 percentile 0.2 
 0.2


**


moderate 2 – percentage of vandalized nodes in way 

The starting score is further moderated according to the ratio of the way's 
vandalised nodes. 



  multiplication factor

1) >= 80% (nodes vandalized in each way object) 
   1 
2) 50 - 80% 
   0.75 
3) 25 - 50% 
   0.5 
4) >25 %
   0.25 


**


moderate 3 - tags 1

Are the vandalized ways heavily tagged ? 


  multiplication factor

1)above average tags for object category
 1.2 
2)average or below   

Re: [OSM-talk] OsmAnd financially rewarding mappers

[Nicolás Alvarez]

> El 3 mar 2016, a las 08:17, Marc Gemis  escribió:
> 
> If I understand the discussion on [1] correctly OsmAnd will reward
> mappers with bitcoins. The bitcoins seem to be paid via a formula
> based on the number of changesets you upload.
> 
> I think this is a bad idea, (just like Jack Burke illustrates with the
> Dilbert strips in the linked topic).
> What do you think about this ? How should we deal with this ?
> 
> 
> regards
> 
> m
> 
> 
> [1] https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/osmand/x2XyIOtRBGE
> 

The reason why I didn't try this yet is that they unnecessarily ask me for my 
OSM *password* when signing up. There are much better ways to verify the 
account...

-- 
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Re: [OSM-talk] OsmAnd financially rewarding mappers

[Simon Poole]

Am 03.03.2016 um 12:42 schrieb Paul Johnson:
> On Thu, Mar 3, 2016 at 5:31 AM, Marc Gemis  > wrote:
>
> So you will start making changesets where you move points  one pixel
> at the time to their final position ?  (just to increase the number of
> changesets) :-)
>
>
> My current ongoing project is to detail micromap all nearly 30,000
> lane-miles, over 8800 bridges, and around 150 highways in Oklahoma. 
> Which is enough for me to wish that id made lanes more obvious like
> JOSM did, because it's frustrating to go over something that was
> deliberately split to map lanes only to discover it merged for miles...

See
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Google_Summer_of_Code/2016/Project_Ideas#Miscellaneous


With other words there is hope :-).

Simon


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Description: OpenPGP digital signature
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Re: [OSM-talk] OsmAnd financially rewarding mappers

[Paul Johnson]

On Thu, Mar 3, 2016 at 5:31 AM, Marc Gemis  wrote:

> So you will start making changesets where you move points  one pixel
> at the time to their final position ?  (just to increase the number of
> changesets) :-)


My current ongoing project is to detail micromap all nearly 30,000
lane-miles, over 8800 bridges, and around 150 highways in Oklahoma.  Which
is enough for me to wish that id made lanes more obvious like JOSM did,
because it's frustrating to go over something that was deliberately split
to map lanes only to discover it merged for miles...
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Re: [OSM-talk] OsmAnd financially rewarding mappers

[Marc Gemis]

So you will start making changesets where you move points  one pixel
at the time to their final position ?  (just to increase the number of
changesets) :-)

On Thu, Mar 3, 2016 at 12:27 PM, Paul Johnson  wrote:
> On Thu, Mar 3, 2016 at 5:17 AM, Marc Gemis  wrote:
>>
>> If I understand the discussion on [1] correctly OsmAnd will reward
>> mappers with bitcoins. The bitcoins seem to be paid via a formula
>> based on the number of changesets you upload.
>>
>> I think this is a bad idea, (just like Jack Burke illustrates with the
>> Dilbert strips in the linked topic).
>> What do you think about this ? How should we deal with this ?
>
>
> I agree this could be a QA disaster, but, if it gives me enough to live on,
> I'd totally dig it.

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Re: [OSM-talk] OsmAnd financially rewarding mappers

[Paul Johnson]

On Thu, Mar 3, 2016 at 5:17 AM, Marc Gemis  wrote:

> If I understand the discussion on [1] correctly OsmAnd will reward
> mappers with bitcoins. The bitcoins seem to be paid via a formula
> based on the number of changesets you upload.
>
> I think this is a bad idea, (just like Jack Burke illustrates with the
> Dilbert strips in the linked topic).
> What do you think about this ? How should we deal with this ?
>

I agree this could be a QA disaster, but, if it gives me enough to live on,
I'd totally dig it.
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[OSM-talk] OsmAnd financially rewarding mappers

[Marc Gemis]

If I understand the discussion on [1] correctly OsmAnd will reward
mappers with bitcoins. The bitcoins seem to be paid via a formula
based on the number of changesets you upload.

I think this is a bad idea, (just like Jack Burke illustrates with the
Dilbert strips in the linked topic).
What do you think about this ? How should we deal with this ?


regards

m






[1] https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/osmand/x2XyIOtRBGE

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Re: [OSM-talk] Need some help

[Janko Mihelić]

All the new data on there should be ODbL too, am I right? It uses old OSM
data so we should be able to use the new data.

uto, 1. ožu 2016. 02:54 Hans De Kryger  je
napisao:

> Got a reply from the website saying it's been fixed. You can see it for
> yourself at the site below.
>
> https://coinmap.org/
> On Feb 23, 2016 9:54 PM, "Hans De Kryger" 
> wrote:
>
>>
>> On Thu, Feb 11, 2016 at 10:37 AM, Jo Walsh  wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> And isn't this the project that caused a lot of problems because the
>>> users started adding all kind of services/shops/companies without a
>>> physical presence to the OSM data ? [2]
>>>
>>> [1] http://forum.openstreetmap.org/viewtopic.php?id=20859
>>>
>>> (April 14, 2013)
>>> [2] https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk/2014-May/069761.html
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> This would seem to be the case:
>>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:Bitcoin
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Automated contributions via this account stopped 8 months ago:
>>> https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/BitcoinMaps
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>
>>
>> ​Just sent out an email to the website​
>>
>>
>> *Regards,*
>>
>> *Hans*
>>
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