Re: [OSM-talk] osm maps on wikipedia - discussion
Hi, On 04/28/2016 11:22 PM, Yves wrote: > Concerning borders, Wikipedia could have a different way of dealing with > disputed territories, and OSM way of handling things may or may not be > appropriate. True. A potential "con" for OSM could be that Wikipedia has different standards of how to establish boundaries than OSM, and that Wikipedia users could turn to OSM to "fix" things according to Wikipedia standards. For example, OSM often gets emails saying "the UN have approved this therefore it must be in your data" (or "the UN have not approved this therefore it must not"), but whether or not the UN have approved something is not what governs our mapping. We'd have to explain to Wikipedia users that what they see on our maps might not be what they expect, and that we do *not* want them to fix it... Bye Frederik -- Frederik Ramm ## eMail frede...@remote.org ## N49°00'09" E008°23'33" ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] osm maps on wikipedia - discussion
Concerning borders, Wikipedia could have a different way of dealing with disputed territories, and OSM way of handling things may or may not be appropriate. Yves Le 28 avril 2016 22:38:37 GMT+02:00, Clifford Snow a écrit : >Simone, >I'm not a Wikimedia user but maybe you could clarify a question for me. >Under the con's is the statement "in many cases OpenStreetMap's >territorial >borders are bad or outdated" Where does this opinion come from? Please >understand that I'm not necessarily disagreeing, but it seems to be a >broad >generalization. > >One of the Pro arguments might be "If the map data is wrong, you can >fix >it." > > >On Thu, Apr 28, 2016 at 4:19 AM, Simone Cortesi >wrote: > >> Hello, >> currently being discussed on mediawiki is the future of maps soon to >> be added to wikipedia. >> >> page: >> >https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Maps/Conversation_about_interactive_map_use >> >> talk page: >> >https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Talk:Maps/Conversation_about_interactive_map_use >> >> I would ask you to have a look at it and respond by adding your >> opinion to the pages. >> >> It is a great chance to have your say on the maps that will be seen >on >> one of the most visited websites in the world. >> >> Thank you, >> S. >> >> ___ >> talk mailing list >> talk@openstreetmap.org >> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk >> > > > >-- >@osm_seattle >osm_seattle.snowandsnow.us >OpenStreetMap: Maps with a human touch > > > > >___ >talk mailing list >talk@openstreetmap.org >https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk -- Envoyé de mon appareil Android avec K-9 Mail. Veuillez excuser ma brièveté.___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] osm maps on wikipedia - discussion
Simone, I'm not a Wikimedia user but maybe you could clarify a question for me. Under the con's is the statement "in many cases OpenStreetMap's territorial borders are bad or outdated" Where does this opinion come from? Please understand that I'm not necessarily disagreeing, but it seems to be a broad generalization. One of the Pro arguments might be "If the map data is wrong, you can fix it." On Thu, Apr 28, 2016 at 4:19 AM, Simone Cortesi wrote: > Hello, > currently being discussed on mediawiki is the future of maps soon to > be added to wikipedia. > > page: > https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Maps/Conversation_about_interactive_map_use > > talk page: > https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Talk:Maps/Conversation_about_interactive_map_use > > I would ask you to have a look at it and respond by adding your > opinion to the pages. > > It is a great chance to have your say on the maps that will be seen on > one of the most visited websites in the world. > > Thank you, > S. > > ___ > talk mailing list > talk@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk > -- @osm_seattle osm_seattle.snowandsnow.us OpenStreetMap: Maps with a human touch ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Crowdfunding for OpenStreetMap in Bénin : 275km² high resolution satellite imagery for Cotonou by 1-May 2016!
Hi Christoph, Frederik and all, Thanks Christoph and Frederik for your two emails, two points related to Benin : Christoph, thanks for setting up that hosting and serving of 100% opendata resources that we will be using in compliment of the freshly purchased imagery over Cotonou for data creation in OSM. We will also be using it locally in RS and this is a real add on for sure. Since 2012 with the overall support of Frederic Moine (aka Fred cc'ed), drones have been used in Haiti in crisis response (Sandy Haiti 2012) and in development/preparedness contexte over Haiti by a collective of Haitian dronistes also membres of OSM groups in Haiti (cc'ed Jean Presler aka Pres) with some support of the International Organization Of Migration (IOM), Drones Adventures, CartONG (Fred having designed and run a community drone campaign support program for that French NGO) (1). Fred and the Haitian dronists crew work has been pioneer in drone uses in real crisis response work and at community level and held as a reference by domain experts (UNOSAT etc, Fred can provide materials). This is what we are looking at doing to fully address OSM imagery needs through 100% hyper high res imagery in Western Africa via a South-South cooperation mechanisms allowing Haitian and African to collect imagery via drones and map it jointly both in Haiti and Africa. The connection already exists and in our last Togo capacity building mission, we had a mapathon where by Western Africans mapped Areas at risk in Port Au Prince (Haiti) tracing over an imagery collected by the local Haitian droners and mappers (2,3). This unfortunately requires funding we did not manage to secure yet and are working on it. Purchasing imagery for OSM is one option at hand to boost mapping in Cotonou via remote AND intensive field work done by Benin mappers and partners in Academic, NGOs, Local Gov, Tech etc. @Frederik, your point is well heard in Bénin where remote mapping will not kill, nor demotivate, nor diminish field work, it will go hand in hand and contribute to more efficiently use scarse voluntary or hyper small budget resources and get more impact, enrich the map, grow the community and enlarge the circle of partners + gain remote support from other Western African groups and the overall global community. Thanks for your two emails, apologies if any of the above clarification is too long, I just felt details specific to the Benin were necessary at this stage. Excellent day to all Best, Nicolas (1): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oou32o-jR0M (2): https://projeteof.org/blog/action-openstreetmap-haiti-2015-an-osm-technical-and-organizational-support-initiative-in-haiti/ (3): https://projeteof.org/blog/action-osm-2015-togo-mapathon-mivamapper-et-state-of-the-map-2015-togo-durant-gis-day-et-geoweek/ On Thu, Apr 28, 2016 at 3:02 PM, Frederik Ramm wrote: > Hi, > > On 04/28/16 08:55, Greg Morgan wrote: > > The problem I have with both Christoph and Frederick statements from > > Germany are that the comments have a feeling of not invented here and > > more imperialism. > > The main problem I have with armchair mapping is not "people map an area > without going out", it's "people map an area without EVER HAVING BEEN > THERE". > > I'm less concerned about you mapping your extended home region from > aerial imagery (assuming for a moment that you live in Montana). If you > find something on an image that makes you wonder, you can always make a > small detour on your next trip to the supermarket and check it out in > person, plus you'll know what kind of builidngs are common in the area > and so on. > > What I think is bad for data quality is people from thousands of miles > away "helping" by tracing from aerial imagery without local knowledge. > This might work for the most basic of features but it has been shown > that even something as seemingly straigforward as the tracing of > buildings can go quite wrong if you don't know anything about the > culture and the area, and *this* has been branded (accidental) > imperialism by some - "what looks like a German barn on the aerial image > certainly must be a barn in Ghana too". > > > Germany is about the size > > of Montana USA. Germany has a population of about 89 million people. > > Montana has a population of around one million people. > > The city of Coutonou alone - to come back to the subject - has 800k > inhabitants, so a lower bound for the population density in the area > being discussed here is 3000 people per square kilometre; about 1000 > times as much as Montana and about 10 times as much as Germany. I do > realize that People in Coutonou might have other priorities in live than > the spoilt kids in Germany but I don't think it serves your argument to > invoke population density. > > > Arm chair > > mapping is perfectly good solution in this and many other cases. > > I dont't think that arm chair mapping is "perfectly good" in many cases, > I think the risk of said accidental imperialism is too
Re: [OSM-talk] Crowdfunding for OpenStreetMap in Bénin : 275km² high resolution satellite imagery for Cotonou by 1-May 2016!
Hi, On 04/28/16 08:55, Greg Morgan wrote: > The problem I have with both Christoph and Frederick statements from > Germany are that the comments have a feeling of not invented here and > more imperialism. The main problem I have with armchair mapping is not "people map an area without going out", it's "people map an area without EVER HAVING BEEN THERE". I'm less concerned about you mapping your extended home region from aerial imagery (assuming for a moment that you live in Montana). If you find something on an image that makes you wonder, you can always make a small detour on your next trip to the supermarket and check it out in person, plus you'll know what kind of builidngs are common in the area and so on. What I think is bad for data quality is people from thousands of miles away "helping" by tracing from aerial imagery without local knowledge. This might work for the most basic of features but it has been shown that even something as seemingly straigforward as the tracing of buildings can go quite wrong if you don't know anything about the culture and the area, and *this* has been branded (accidental) imperialism by some - "what looks like a German barn on the aerial image certainly must be a barn in Ghana too". > Germany is about the size > of Montana USA. Germany has a population of about 89 million people. > Montana has a population of around one million people. The city of Coutonou alone - to come back to the subject - has 800k inhabitants, so a lower bound for the population density in the area being discussed here is 3000 people per square kilometre; about 1000 times as much as Montana and about 10 times as much as Germany. I do realize that People in Coutonou might have other priorities in live than the spoilt kids in Germany but I don't think it serves your argument to invoke population density. > Arm chair > mapping is perfectly good solution in this and many other cases. I dont't think that arm chair mapping is "perfectly good" in many cases, I think the risk of said accidental imperialism is too high. Would you want Montana mapped by people who've never even been to the US and perhaps don't even speak English? Bye Frederik -- Frederik Ramm ## eMail frede...@remote.org ## N49°00'09" E008°23'33" ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Crowdfunding for OpenStreetMap in Bénin : 275km² high resolution satellite imagery for Cotonou by 1-May 2016!
On Thursday 28 April 2016, Greg Morgan wrote:
>
> The problem I have with both Christoph and Frederick statements from
> Germany are that the comments have a feeling of not invented here and
> more imperialism.
I think you are barking up the wrong tree here.
Most of my mapping in OSM is in areas much more severely
underrepresented in usual image sources than Benin. So i am well aware
of the problem of cultural and economic bias in remote mapping sources
and i have also discussed this several years ago already [1].
But you do not solve this problem by buying satellite imagery for the
areas you find underrepresented. Satellite operators like
Airbus-DS/CNES and DigitalGlobe are not any more neutral than companies
like Mapbox, they likewise 'serve priority markets' and you are not
going to change these priorities with a few thousand bucks of crowd
sourced money. To really overcome these problems you'd need to create
the means to locally produce comparable data sources through aerial
imaging.
But to do something productive instead of just talking i set up some
open imagery for the area in question [2]. This is of course not in
any way comparable to what is envisioned by the Benin community but it
is way better than what in the crowd funding campain is shown as the
currently available level. You won't be able to trace buildings or
smaller urban streets from it but there is still a lot of map-worthy
stuff that can be derived from this data (even more if you also use
infrared data which i left out for the purpose of ease of use) and it
is recent, from December last year. Also this should show that there
are truly open image sources that are frequently better in either
actuality or resolution than what Bing and Mapbox offer.
[1] http://blog.imagico.de/new-franz-josef-land-map/
[2]
http://maps.imagico.de/#map=9/6.702/2.215&lang=en&l=sat&r=osmim&o=3&ui=8
tms:http://imagico.de/map/osmim_tiles.php?layer=S2A_R022_N06_20151221T103009&z={zoom}&x={x}&y={-y}
--
Christoph Hormann
http://www.imagico.de/
___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] osm maps on wikipedia - discussion
Hello, currently being discussed on mediawiki is the future of maps soon to be added to wikipedia. page: https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Maps/Conversation_about_interactive_map_use talk page: https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Talk:Maps/Conversation_about_interactive_map_use I would ask you to have a look at it and respond by adding your opinion to the pages. It is a great chance to have your say on the maps that will be seen on one of the most visited websites in the world. Thank you, S. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] well mapped area for area navigation
On Mon, Apr 25, 2016 at 10:43 PM, maning sambale wrote: > Hi, > > I'm looking for an area to test navigation in light with the new OSRM > v5 release [0]. Can anyone recommend an area which you think is > "navigation complete" in OSM? > > Of course, "navigation complete means" different for different people, > here I define navigation for car. So I'm looking for an area that has > "complete" map for: > > - roads and names > - oneways > - traffic signals > - turn restrictions (including conditional turn restrictions) > - turn lanes (including bike lanes) > - speed limits > - exit signs and destinations for motorways > > Advance thanks! > Tulsa County, Oklahoma (and most counties around it). ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Crowdfunding for OpenStreetMap in Bénin : 275km² high resolution satellite imagery for Cotonou by 1-May 2016!
Hi Greg and all, Greg, we are 100% in agreement (your text is below). OSM Benin folks know their country, their OSM stuffs, their needs and the support of the collective ProjetEOF did crowdsource (with success from yesterda) for high res imagery over Cotonou This allow to open a dialogue with Digital Globe wich hopefully may lead to additional creative options for imagery delivery usable to enrich OSM. Thanks for those who participated into this effort. The overall is positive for OSM Benin and OSM tout court and in Cotonou this will change the map, the community, and foster the opendata dynamic through the production and release of OSM data. Let's rejoy and for those adhering to the OSM Benin way, work collectively into making Cotonou a nicely mapped city. Folks from Mali, France already started to travel to Cotonou, others from Niger, Burkina, Ivory Coast, Senegal and France are getting ready to hit the road or board train and plane: we will be around 20 there for 3 weeks working in a capacity building program around OSM, GIS (QGIS), webGIS (uMap/Leaflet), Spatial Data Infrastructure (Georchestra), opendata, humanitarian and development topics tied to organizationl skills and techniques. We will be working with OSM Benin partners in the tech scene, Academic, Local/Central Government, NGOs, Red Cross, journalists and Civil Society. Details on this mission blog post (1,2), more updates (including English versions) to follow on this account and social media. On twitter, stay tuned to @OSMBenin, @ProjetEOF, #map4bj, #ProjetEOF). Best, ++ Nicolas (1) : https://projeteof.org/blog/action-openstreetmap-2016-benin-du-1-au-21-mai-2016/ (2) : https://projeteof.org/blog/crowdfunding-for-openstreetmap-in-benin-275km%c2%b2-high-resolution-satellite-imagery-for-cotonou-by-1-may-2016/ > nicolas chavent wrote > There is a local OSM group active in Benin since mid 2013, > This group is skilled they got trained via (capacity building missions run > by the collective Projet EOF) and had been always self training and growing > their skills, growing their community and training Academic, Benin Red Cross > Volunteers, Civil workers from local government, folks from the local tech > scene etc... > This group has a few equipments at hand, > They share a co-working space (Blolab) in Cotonou with other tech actors, > They have been active in their country (several places and various mapping > project) and in Western Africa through regional 3 to 4 weeks long capacity > building missions involving a lot of field and remote mapping work > They operate mostly on a voluntary basis with low means and they grow their > map and their community. > They decided to crowdfund for these 275km2 high res imagery in Cotonou > because this has been blocking them and that a few additional GPS Units will > not make the difference, but this imagery will do! I don't see what the problem is. Bénin mappers have already performed an analysis of the problem. I don't see why they cannot proceed. If Digital Globe, MapBox or any other organization what to contribute to the Bénin project, then then that is even better. The Bénin mappers are very savvy. They have used a crowd funding site to freely advertise their efforts and perhaps receive direct contributions. Well then, it might be smart for Digital Globe, Mapbox, or another organization to setup a crowdfunding section of their websites. A 501C section of the said firms could collect money to fund some of these efforts without the overhead of crowd funding sites. The reward would be great publicity. More that likely, there still will be costs that cannot be absorbed by goodwill alone. Regards, Greg On Thu, Apr 28, 2016 at 8:55 AM, Greg Morgan wrote: > On Mon, Apr 25, 2016 at 10:52 AM, Simon Poole wrote: > > > > I'm slightly taken back by the number of people wanting to jump in and > > make decisions for a local community on a topic that has little bearing > > outside of their region. > > ... > > > > > > Simon > > > Simon, > > This is one of the most positive things that I've heard you say about > a local community deciding what to do! Thank you. > > The problem I have with both Christoph and Frederick statements from > Germany are that the comments have a feeling of not invented here and > more imperialism. There is a smack of what's good for Germany is good > for everyone local mapping group out there. Germany is about the size > of Montana USA. Germany has a population of about 89 million people. > Montana has a population of around one million people. Arm chair > mapping is perfectly good solution in this and many other cases. The > whole meetup/pub mapping event just won't scale in areas like Montana. > I laugh when you want me to run out and GPS every node that I put on > the map where map density isn't there like in Germany. Moreover, > there's this idea that consumer grade GPS devices are so much more > accurate compared to imagery. What I have now is a _useful_ map using
