[OSM-talk] Amazon Logistics (WAS: Short ways added to substitute barriers)

[Michael Reichert]

Hi Jem,

Am 29.10.18 um 04:08 schrieb Jem:
> Re: https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/634085262 and several more like it in
> the area.
> 
> It seems that new, short ways have been introduced to replicate the purpose
> of the existing barrier nodes. i.e. to prevent routing for vehicular
> traffic. I believe it is incorrect and just adds complexity.
> 
> I plan to contact the user to discuss, but want to make sure I'm right. Can
> any experienced members please advise?

This is an edit of an employee or contractor of Amazon Logistics editing
OSM. They documented themselves on the OSM wiki a few days ago after one
email by myself and two by the DWG. (I had escalated the case to DWG
because they continued editing in Germany without a documentation)

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Amazon_Logistics

My comments about the wiki page:

I would like to see the driver feedback directly, not the edits only in
order   to be able to analyse the whether the editing errors come from
the staff or if the reports are a useful source at all.

It is unlikely that all the errors they fix have been reported by
drivers or are derived from GPS traces. I assume that they do some
automated QA checks, e.g. for routing islands. Its results should be
published. This might help themselves because they can get feedback
from the community to improve the rules the QA software applies. I am
happy to help putting the results into OSMI or an instance of Osmoscope
if they are able to give me a shape file, SpatiaLite database or
anything else OGR can read.

They should publish the training material in order that other companies
can learn how the training should be improved. Yes, that leaks business
secrets but the OSM community and their work is more important.

I have observed the following issues with their edits:

(1) They add very short ways to substitute barriers (e.g.
https://openstreetmap.org/changeset/63524103): This should not be done.

(2) They add access=no/private inside closed areas where all roads
leading to the facility are access=no/private. This looks good to me.

(3) They add or remove oneway=yes or change the direction of ways. It
seems to be good in most cases but proper judgement is only possible
with local knowledge. Are they aware of the frequent exemptions for
bicycles and public transport?

(4) They "fix" the same locations they had fixed in spring this year
before I reverted all their edits in Europe due to too many quality
issues. https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/58217008
I have not evaluated yet if their second attempt to fix these "errors"
really hits the root cause of the issues or if it hides the root causes
again. (Fixing without hitting the root cause means that they make their
QA software not showing any error any more)

(5) Sometimes their edits are good but in many cases they either lack
local knowledge (or experience with German roads?) or the experience
with the access tagging schema and many other ways how OSM works. For
example, one of them recently revived a razed:highway=* by adding
highway= in a construction in the centre of Karlsruhe [1].
Nearby landuse=construction polygons, a changed layout of the
intersection and razed:highway=* (highway=* missing) did not keep them
from editing the way and having unlimited trust in Mapillary imagery. I
wonder if they trained their staff properly w.r.t. the risks of
couchmapping.

(6) Editing access restrictions of streets based on the visibility of
cars on satellite imagery: This should not be done with satellite
imagery only. It is too likely that the edit harms more than it helps
because the individual cars are explicitly permitted to use the road or
the imagery shows drivers violating traffic rules (but we usually map
the signs).

This trouble is one of the reasons why OSM should have a strong code
of conduct for paid and organised editing activities protecting
craftmappers and their work and ensuring that companies respect the work
of volunteers.

Best regards

Michael




[1] The construction sites of our two new tunnels in Karlsruhe make the
road layout change every few days. Any aerial image and Mapillary
imagery is outdated.


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Re: [OSM-talk] Wikimedia Community Wishlist 2019

[Yuri Astrakhan]

Stefano, thanks!  One important aspect - it seems a single generic request
with guidance gets done much better than multiple smaller items. I highly
recommend uniting behind the general "improve maps" request to get WMF to
commit to maps full time, rather than "throwing us a bone" (creating a
small task-oriented team with a limited time duration).  The current
proposal that is already gaining a lot of discussion momentum is at
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Community_Wishlist_Survey_2019/Miscellaneous/Wikimedia_Maps_Improvements

On Tue, Oct 30, 2018 at 11:25 AM Stefano  wrote:

> Dear all,
> WMF has started the call for proposals for next year implementations.
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Community_Wishlist_Survey_2019
>
> Since the OSM community had some 'feature requests' for wiki* projects
> (example: the Map internationalization without using directly OSM), I
> suggest to contribute to these requests now (end of the call November 11th).
>
> https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Maps/Status_of_map_styles
>
> Thanks,
> Stefano
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Re: [OSM-talk] it seems josm.openstreetmap.de is down

[Oleksiy Muzalyev]

Yes, I recalled it now. I did see the announcement. Thank you.
Best regards,
O.
On 30.10.18 18:40, James wrote:
if you read josm announcement (start of josm) there's maintenance for 
a couple hours


On Tue., Oct. 30, 2018, 12:33 p.m. Oleksiy Muzalyev, 
mailto:oleksiy.muzal...@bluewin.ch>> wrote:


I cannot open the link https://josm.openstreetmap.de/ and I cannot
launch the JOSM application on macOS.

I do not know if these two issues are connected.

Best regards,

O.


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Re: [OSM-talk] it seems josm.openstreetmap.de is down

[Maarten Deen]

On 2018-10-30 17:29, Oleksiy Muzalyev wrote:

I cannot open the link https://josm.openstreetmap.de/ and I cannot
launch the JOSM application on macOS.

I do not know if these two issues are connected.


I believe there is some maintenance going on. I think they planned a few 
hours of downtime.


Regards,
Maarten

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Re: [OSM-talk] it seems josm.openstreetmap.de is down

[James]

if you read josm announcement (start of josm) there's maintenance for a
couple hours

On Tue., Oct. 30, 2018, 12:33 p.m. Oleksiy Muzalyev, <
oleksiy.muzal...@bluewin.ch> wrote:

> I cannot open the link https://josm.openstreetmap.de/ and I cannot
> launch the JOSM application on macOS.
>
> I do not know if these two issues are connected.
>
> Best regards,
>
> O.
>
>
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[OSM-talk] it seems josm.openstreetmap.de is down

[Oleksiy Muzalyev]

I cannot open the link https://josm.openstreetmap.de/ and I cannot 
launch the JOSM application on macOS.


I do not know if these two issues are connected.

Best regards,

O.


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[OSM-talk] Wikimedia Community Wishlist 2019

[Stefano]

Dear all,
WMF has started the call for proposals for next year implementations.
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Community_Wishlist_Survey_2019

Since the OSM community had some 'feature requests' for wiki* projects
(example: the Map internationalization without using directly OSM), I
suggest to contribute to these requests now (end of the call November 11th).

https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Maps/Status_of_map_styles

Thanks,
Stefano
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