Re: [Talk-ru] Дайджест списка рассылки Talk-ru; том 9, выпуск 2
On Wed, 22 Feb 2012 19:00:01 +0700, talk-ru-requ...@openstreetmap.org wrote: Насчёт того, как записывать обсуждения Совета, вот вам совет: звонок-конференция + запись текста протокола прямо по ходу в редактор http://openetherpad.org/ Там можно и писать всем сразу, и видеть историю правок. -- Dmitri Lebedev http://stroyki.ryba4.com skype:siberianoNsk ___ Talk-ru mailing list Talk-ru@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ru
[OSM-talk] JOSM trac down again
Hi all, Sorry if this is the wrong place, but their database is down again. Here's the error message you get when trying to create a ticket: Trac detected an internal error: DatabaseError: database disk image is malformed -- Dmitri Lebedev http://stroyki.ryba4.com skype:siberianoNsk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] Flight paths in OSM
Hi all, please, look at this: http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/80906020 It's a flight path from one airport to another. It's absolutely not real (aircrafts fly along routes and navpoints more like zig-zags, not the straight grand circle ways). Imo this data is garbage. None of these points reflect any real data. A grand circle between 2 random airports in the world can be calculated, but there's no need to store all the calculated grand circles in the OSM db. Any other opinions? -- ry...@ryba4.com http://ryba4.com icq 335635 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] talk Digest, Vol 74, Issue 26
On Sun, 10 Oct 2010 22:44:14 +0700, talk-requ...@openstreetmap.org wrote: Why iwould it be not useful to public transport routing? It can be barely useful. 1. For flights in general, for end users of public transport, it's enough to match flight schedules with timetables. If someone wants to use route optimizing algorithms, he can just make a 1 section way between the 2 APTs and add some cost to this way. IN HIS OWN DB. (OSM API obviously has no routing facilities). 2. Flight tracks look like this: http://navmap.ryba4.com (it's my svg map from 2006) This data can be imported, given it came with a proper permission from a proper source. Storing approaches can make sense if air agencies could update them regularly. They often chane: navaids get closed for maintenance, flight paths are moved here or there, approaches procedures adjusted, etc. Actually, here I have a suggestion to OSM to talk more to X-Plane flight simulator team. They use airnav data, which can be imported, and have some airports blueprints in good resolution. OSM could contribute to their global scenery. Anyway, 3. You can't get a better estimation of flight timing or any other parameter from mapping the actual flight track: flights are often delayed much longer than the precision that you can get. 4. REAL FLIGHT PATHS CHANGE FROM FLIGHT TO FLIGHT. For instance, cross-atlantic routes change hour to hour to get advantage of wind currents (and to not fly upwind, which can be up to 60 knots in the upper atmosphere). Makes no sense to draw just one of them. To the guys who draw the non-existing data such as grand circles, I'd suggest (assuming they want to use it in a meaningful way) to use, say, OpenLayers, calculate the points and keep them in JS while visualising with canvas. -- ry...@ryba4.com http://ryba4.com icq 335635 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Proposal: winter roads
Hello, I want to support this guy's proposal. I have to say winter roads are a totally different thing than normal roads. In summer, there's just no road at all. NO ROAD. If you need to get somewhere, use river boats or helicopters. The area where a winter road is can be a swamp, a scrub, a forest (taiga), but there's no road in summer there, in fact in swamps it just can't be there. Even if one tries to build it there, he will hit one big obstacle called permafrost. Basically, in permafrost areas, in a few metres under the ground the land is frozen even by the end of summer. (that's because yearly average temperatures are sub-zero). The layer above, that melts and freezes with seasons, behaves very specifically. First, water in the molten layer can't percolate down through the frozen one below, and in plain areas just stays there, forming swamps, or just a land that's wetter than average in your place. When it freezes, it expands (since water is not a metal, it's most dense at +4 degrees, with temperature going down it EXPANDS, and pushes all around making a big pressure). Since the ground is uneven, guess what, if you put a road there, the surface will be pushed from below UNEVENLY. That's why even strong armed concrete does not guarantee the road will stand more than one winter. Add swamps that are widespread in permafrost, and try to guess how much it can cost to build a 200 km of a road. To get the idea, read this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Permafrost So, that's why it's enormously costy to build a normal road there where winter roads exist. In winter, when the temperature is below 0 degrees C for MONTHS, ice is a stable and hard base and with a few work can make a good road. BTW, ice is not as slippery as on the ice rink in your city. You can ride on bare ice if the surface is rough. AND, in winter it snows, so in a matter of 1-2 weeks the road is a stiff compressed snow, which is as slippery as sand :) To sum up: winter roads are very special and have to be treated with respect and shown appropriately. It can't be any type of highway that we have now. You can't put there highway=unclassified, surface=ice and make a driver guess: hmm, is that road in 100 km to the north a normal one, or the navigator leads me into swamps? Hope that explains better, Dmitri. Novosibirsk -- ry...@ryba4.com http://ryba4.com icq 335635 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] Proposal: winter roads
Hi, Dave F., For instance the second photo' is labeled as impassable. Clearly it is not. I could go down it on foot, mountain bike or even a suitable motor vehicle despite what is said on the wiki. Being young and dreaming is nice, but no, you couldn't. :) Basically, you'll have to carry the bike on yourself (and walk up to the knee in mud). The avg speed is 0.5 km/h. The cars in the picture move at the same speed with the aid of their winches. I tried such surfaces on MTB with and without rucksack. Even without weight you move really slowly. Technically, it is just the same as shallow swamp or a taiga forest, except there are no trees to cut to make way. ;) Dmitri, Novosibirsk -- ry...@ryba4.com http://ryba4.com icq 335635 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
