Re: [OSM-talk] Strange location reading

[John Eldredge]

This particular rest stop didn't have a cafe, but it did have an office, so 
it seemed likely to me that the office might have a WiFi router for use by 
state employees.


--
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"Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot 
drive out hate; only love can do that." -- Martin Luther King, Jr.




On September 28, 2016 5:21:59 AM Michael Collinson  wrote:


On 28/09/16 09:59, Warin wrote:

On 28-Sep-16 04:44 PM, Oleksiy Muzalyev wrote:

On 27.09.16 21:51, John Eldredge wrote:

This past weekend, I made a long road trip. At one point, while in a
highway rest stop, I checked Google Maps to see how far I had come.
To my surprise, it showed me at a different rest stop, about 200
miles from my actual location. I suspect that my phone couldn't get
a good GPS reading, and was relying on the WiFi ID from the rest
area office. The other rest area was probably using the same SSID.

I didn't think to launch OSMand for comparison, but I suspect it
would have given me the same bogus results, as the choice of whether
to use WiFi, cell tower, GPS, or a combination, to determine your
location is set in the system settings, not inside the mapping
applications.


GPS signal is not influenced by clouds, rain, and snow. The GPS
signal frequency of about 1575mhz was chosen expressly because it is
a "window" in the weather as far as signal propagation is concerned
[1]. However a coating of water, snow, or ice on a smartphone or on a
car may block GPS signal. A coating of water, even a fairly thin one
is NOT the same as raindrops.


So if one is outside and a device is dry, the GPS reading should be
correct no matter what is the actual weather. Otherwise it makes
sense to restart the device, or change it if an incorrect GPS
location reading persists.


John .. could you have the GPS function on the phone turned off? I
usually have mine turned off to save battery power .. for use as a
phone. There is a GPS Status app that I use to check various sensors
.. including what the GPS is doing, suggest you use it .. that is an
android app ... apple should have something similar.


Do these rest stops have cafes that are part of a chain? They might have
moved a wifi access point and your app is reporting a non-satellite
position based on that. I have seen that happen.

Mike


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[OSM-talk] Strange location reading

[John Eldredge]

This past weekend, I made a long road trip. At one point, while in a 
highway rest stop, I checked Google Maps to see how far I had come. To my 
surprise, it showed me at a different rest stop, about 200 miles from my 
actual location. I suspect that my phone couldn't get a good GPS reading, 
and was relying on the WiFi ID from the rest area office. The other rest 
area was probably using the same SSID.


I didn't think to launch OSMand for comparison, but I suspect it would have 
given me the same bogus results, as the choice of whether to use WiFi, cell 
tower, GPS, or a combination, to determine your location is set in the 
system settings, not inside the mapping applications.


--
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"Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot 
drive out hate; only love can do that." -- Martin Luther King, Jr.




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Re: [OSM-talk] What3words

[John Eldredge]

Also agreed. The existing latitude/longitude system has the advantage of 
being an international standard, supported by hundreds of different maps 
and mapping devices, not to mention the GPS satellite system.


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John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com
"Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot 
drive out hate; only love can do that." -- Martin Luther King, Jr.




On November 22, 2015 8:53:12 AM Colin Smale  wrote:




On 2015-11-22 15:47, Dave F. wrote:


On 22/11/2015 14:32, Colin Smale wrote:


I just said "w3w exists, what could/should we do?"


The consensus appears to be "Nothing"


Agreed.

--colin


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Re: [OSM-talk] Release openstreetmap-carto v2.36.0

[John Eldredge]

A lot of pharmacies in the USA serve as general merchandise stores, as well 
as selling prescription and nonprescription medicines, bandages, etc. The 
Walgreens Drugstore near my home sells food, cosmetics, toys, cell phone 
accessories, household tools, and many other items.


--
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"Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot 
drive out hate; only love can do that." -- Martin Luther King, Jr.




On October 31, 2015 8:34:44 AM Greg Troxel  wrote:


Martin Koppenhoefer  writes:


sent from a phone


Am 31.10.2015 um 00:22 schrieb Philip Barnes :

Pharmacists don't technically sell medicines they dispense it and
sometimes collect a flat rate fee, if you are of working age and live
in England.


It's quite different in the US.   Besides paying for prescription
medication (often with insurance, but still) a place called a pharmacy
will have a variety of non-prescription medication and various
associated stuff (bandages).

So shop makes more sense than office, and here office makes no to little
sense at all.

I realize there's shop=chemist, but that seem to be a uk/europe vs US thing.

However, the real issue is that the tags in use should be rendered.  If
a tag is not used much and it's dropped, that's fine, but using the
stylesheet to force retagging of things in wide use would be
inappropriate.  I haven't seen the underlying data on tag frequency
brought into the debate; arguably that should be the core of the
discussion.


THEY do sell some stuff as well, but so do the library and post office.



there is surely a huge difference in volume between the stuff a
pharmacy sells besides dispensing medicine and the stuff a library or
a post office sell, making it more of an edge case, at least around
here (and that's still Europe). Anyway, I don't oppose
amenity=pharmacy as the preferred tag.


In the US, a pharmacy basically sells things, including some things that
require a special license to sell.   library and post office do sell
some things, but are not primarily shops in that sense.




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Re: [OSM-talk] Activity statistics per city (or region)

[John Eldredge]

If someone changes their user name, do change logs from before the name 
change still show the old user name, or do the change logs link to a user 
table, and thus show the new name?


--
John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com
"Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot 
drive out hate; only love can do that." -- Martin Luther King, Jr.




On October 27, 2015 5:26:29 AM Philip Barnes  wrote:


On Tue Oct 27 10:05:04 2015 GMT, Jóhannes Birgir Jensson wrote:

Þann 27.10.2015 07:09, Paul Norman reit:
> On 10/26/2015 8:24 AM, Fabian Schmidt wrote:
>> It is rare but there are users who renamed their account, so there are
>> more user names than numeric user ids.
>
> No. Although users have renamed their account, this doesn't increase
> the number of user names, it changes one of them.
>
> Additionally, user IDs are a PostgreSQL serial so there can be gaps,
> and spam users are sometimes completely deleted.

I'm guessing he meant that there are more user names in the changelogs
than actually exist, if you are parsing changelogs over several time
periods. I'm guessing the user name change is reflected instantly in the
changelog after renaming.

I did change my username as my preferred username became available around 
the licence change time.


My early edits, made under my old username trig222, show as my present 
username trigpoint.


OSMhelp and the wiki do still guide me towards trig222 however.

Phil (trigpoint)
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Re: [OSM-talk] [OSM-dev] Generating list of interesting places

[John Eldredge]

It would seem that each user would need to provide a checklist of what they 
find interesting, unless you restricted it to the most common topics of 
interest.


--
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"Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot 
drive out hate; only love can do that." -- Martin Luther King, Jr.




On October 9, 2015 3:34:56 AM Mateusz Konieczny  wrote:


Is there already some tool that for given area generates list of
interesting places (museums, caves, old trees, famous tourism
attractions, monuments, etc etc) based on OSM data?


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Re: [OSM-talk] talk Digest, Vol 134, Issue 11

[John Eldredge]

Since we aren't mind-readers, you need to say what you want help with.

--
John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com
"Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot 
drive out hate; only love can do that." -- Martin Luther King, Jr.




On October 7, 2015 11:53:10 AM kassy taylor  wrote:


Help

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From: "talk-requ...@openstreetmap.org" 
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To: "talk@openstreetmap.org" 
Subject: talk Digest, Vol 134, Issue 11

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When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of talk digest..."


Today's Topics:

   1. Re: User WJtW - railway track counts (Michael Reichert)
   2. Re: User WJtW - railway track counts (Richard Mann)
   3. Re: User WJtW - railway track counts (Colin Smale)
   4. Re: User WJtW - railway track counts (Colin Smale)


--

Message: 1
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 2015 10:57:49 +0200
From: Michael Reichert 
To: talk@openstreetmap.org
Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] User WJtW - railway track counts
Message-ID: <5614de8d.3000...@gmx.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Hi,

Am 2015-10-07 um 10:24 schrieb Richard Mann:

Putting tracks=1 on multiple parallel tracks is also potentially
misleading. It's a method of tagging that's been superseded by drawing each
line separately.

So I took to adding passenger_lines=N, to avoid a compatability conflict. I
only did N=1 or N>=4, though.

I'd suggest converting the tagging to tracks=1+passenger_lines=2.


You can find the tag detail=track on lots of tracks in South-West
Germany instead of tracks=1.

Best regards

Michael


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Message: 2
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 2015 10:11:46 +0100
From: Richard Mann 
To: Michael Reichert 
Cc: osm 
Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] User WJtW - railway track counts
Message-ID:

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

I added track_detail=yes, to achieve much the same end. I haven't looked at
railway tagging for a while, though.
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Message: 3
Date: Wed, 07 Oct 2015 11:19:07 +0200
From: Colin Smale 
To: talk@openstreetmap.org
Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] User WJtW - railway track counts
Message-ID: 
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"



What is "track_detail=yes"? I can't find it anywhere in the (English)
wiki...

//colin

On 2015-10-07 11:11, Richard Mann wrote:

I added track_detail=yes, to achieve much the same end. I haven't looked at 
railway tagging for a while, though.


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Message: 4
Date: Wed, 07 Oct 2015 11:20:57 +0200
From: Colin Smale 
To: talk@openstreetmap.org
Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] User WJtW - railway track counts
Message-ID: 
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"



Thanks for contacting DWG, Michael.

It is not limited to tracks=2 by the way - I have seen examples of four
tracks, all with tracks=4...

--colin

On 2015-10-07 10:56, Michael Reichert wrote:


Hi.

Am 2015-10-07 um 10:03 schrieb Colin Smale:


I am not sure it would be vandalism - It is more likely a
misunderstanding of the intention of the tracks=* tag. But it is very
damaging, and potentially hard to revert as this has been going on for
some time and newer edits may have been made. It may need something like
this:

* Get all changesets from WJtW
* get all railway tracks from those changesets with tracks>1
* search back through the history to find where the tag was added
* see if it was user WJtW that did it
* If so, remove the tracks=* tag.


I (a German railway mapper) have been notified by another user about
WJtW's edits last week. I [1] have already started reverting parts of
his edits. That's the way I did it:

Re: [OSM-talk] Buildings on abandoned railways (via Overpass) (was: Re: THIS is the kind of enthusiasm some would reject)

[John Eldredge]

In the case of Nashville, Tennessee, an Interstate bypass, I-440, that 
loops about one-third of the way around the city core, deliberately made 
use of a no-longer-used railway right-of-way to reduce land purchase costs. 
If anyone were to go back and map that railroad now, the entire route would 
overlap the motorway.


--
John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com
"Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot 
drive out hate; only love can do that." -- Martin Luther King, Jr.




On September 13, 2015 7:59:54 AM Martin Koppenhoefer 
 wrote:





sent from a phone


Am 13.09.2015 um 10:00 schrieb mmd :

out of curiosity I was wondering a bit, if there are lots of abandoned
railways with plenty of buildings in the way, i.e. is this really a
widespread issue?



I would expect more dismantled railways to be built over than abandoned 
rails. It still happens, e.g. in the city centre of Stuttgart, Germany, 
around 100 hectares of rail are currently covered with buildings:

https://de.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rahmenplan_Stuttgart_21


cheers
Martin


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Re: [OSM-talk] old_name

[John Eldredge]

There are likely some currently-living scholars, tour guides, etc. who 
think of Dublin by all of the old names you mentioned, so, by your logic, 
all of these old names should be included in tags.


--
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"Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot 
drive out hate; only love can do that." -- Martin Luther King, Jr.




On September 8, 2015 10:59:17 AM moltonel 3x Combo  wrote:


On 08/09/2015, Martin Koppenhoefer  wrote:

Am 08.09.2015 um 14:46 schrieb Mateusz Konieczny :
But I would not add old_name that is currently completely unused.


there's one area where old names will be used for sure: old documents,
books, film, signs, ...

There is no such thing like a currently  completely unused old name,
otherwise it wouldn't be an old name.
Or maybe I don't understand "currently". Everything I may encounter now?


If you go that route, there's no limit to how far back an old name can
go. That'd mean that we should add, for example, all of [Dublin's old
names][1] to the osm object, since they are well documented. It would
be a silly thing to do, as these names definitely are not a current
property of Dublin.

IMHO the cuting point should be that the name is used by a living
person, with "used" defined as "when he thinks (out of some document
context) about that place, he (at least sometimes) thinks of it using
that name". It sounds really convoluted when you try a formal
definition, but I hope the ide is clear ? If some joking friend offers
to meet me in "Lutèce" I'll know in which city to go, but I certainly
don't expect OSM to know.


[1]:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dublin#Toponymy

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Re: [OSM-talk] The Proposed Great Colour Shift

[John Eldredge]

I agree that blue is the logical color for mapping waterways, and should be 
reserved for that purpose.


--
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"Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot 
drive out hate; only love can do that." -- Martin Luther King, Jr.




On August 22, 2015 5:11:10 AM Daniel Koć  wrote:


W dniu 22.08.2015 1:47, Richard Mann napisał(a):

I'd be tempted to leave motorways as blue - it's not such a critical
problem as the invisible green trunk roads. Adding one


For me the problem is the same - blue looks like a river and I don't
know why at least some of UK-ers likes to see the London area roads like
this (I mean: having to spot two most important road types!):

http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=9/51.3289/-0.0673

Its not that "UK style" doesn't work for the rest of the world, it also
doesn't work for UK on OSM, because we have much more data visible than
other maps.

That's not against this or any other local styling - I never
underestimate the power of old habits and I'd like the people to have
what they want on the output, no matter why they want it, but it's just
not going to happen as long as default style has a mission to be
universal.

--
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down" [A. Cohen]

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Re: [OSM-talk] stop deleting abandoned railroads

[John Eldredge]

Not precisely flat, but with very shallow grades, by definition. Regular 
railroad engines (as opposed to cog railway engines) can't climb steep 
slopes. So, if you are looking for a route without steep grades, a former 
railway is a natural choice.


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"Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot 
drive out hate; only love can do that." -- Martin Luther King, Jr.




On August 18, 2015 8:28:47 AM Frederik Ramm  wrote:


Hi,

On 08/18/2015 03:21 PM, Richard wrote:

Especially as many railways come with more or less dense key:ele tagging
they are much more reliable to derive height profile information than any
other data we have.


Do I understand you correctly: We should map abandoned railways because
we lack a good source of elevation data?

That sounds like a very strange proposal to me. Perhaps the wiki
documenting the "abandoned" value should be amended by "not to be used
for abandoned mountain railways, because cycle routers will prefer
routing along abandoned railway lines under the assumption that they
must be flat"?

Bye
Frederik

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Re: [OSM-talk] Marking tight corners

[John Eldredge]

One risk factor that the two-dimensional geometry of OSM won't show is how 
a curve is banked. Unbanked curves are common, and I have encountered some 
curves that are banked with the low side of the curve towards the outside, 
very risky under wet conditions.


--
John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com
"Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot 
drive out hate; only love can do that." -- Martin Luther King, Jr.




On July 29, 2015 7:23:14 PM Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com> wrote:


On 30/07/2015 5:45 AM, Subhodip Biswas wrote:
> Hi,
>
> On Wed, Jul 29, 2015 at 2:34 PM, Mateusz Konieczny
> mailto:matkoni...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> Geometry of road is already providing this information, there is
> probably no need to duplicate this in tags.
>
>
> Thanks, will it be possible provide a link to the wiki that explains
> geometry of the road. Also if not a problem is it possible to attach
> angle/decreasing/increasing nature of the corner? Sorry if I missed
> something.
>
>
> On Wed, 29 Jul 2015 14:11:50 -0500
> Subhodip Biswas  > wrote:
>
> > Hello,
> >
> > I was wondering if there is some tags or is it possible to create
> > some tags that marks tight corners.
> >
> > The reason is as a motorcyclist I may want to know the danger ahead
> > spoken to me through a navigation app (e.g. navmii).  Even in well
> > marked area like in the US it is not always possible to see the the
> > corner up ahead and the posted speed limit for it (debatable).
> >
> >
>

Zoom in!
  If there are enough nodes you should be able to see how sharp the
corner is ..
I use this is fog! You are travelling very slow and cannot see too far
.. the GPS map gives you more than you can see.

-
There are speed warnings - usually for fixed speed cameras. And some use
this for land mine warnings. No reason why the same method could not be
used for corner speeds ... but this is not part of the map but separate
POI.



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Re: [OSM-talk] waterway - "routable network" and reservoirs/lakes

[John Eldredge]

In some cases, the navigation path may be different from the named 
waterway, such as when locks and canals are used to bypass waterfalls or 
rapids.  In the case of reservoirs and lakes, some areas may be too shallow 
for navigation, so the actual navigation route may not always be the 
shortest path between the inlet and outlet points.



--
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"Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot 
drive out hate; only love can do that." -- Martin Luther King, Jr.




On July 27, 2015 2:25:54 PM Jochen Topf  wrote:


On Mo, Jul 27, 2015 at 08:08:22 +0100, Lester Caine wrote:
> On 27/07/15 19:56, Christoph Hormann wrote:
> >> In the case where a stream flows into a reservoir , and then a stream
> >> > (with the same name) also flows out of that reservoir, should a
> >> > linear way be drawn through the reservoir to connect the two streams
> >> > (the reservoir is currently represented by its own closed way tagged
> >> > natural=water, water=reservoir)?
>
> > Yes.
>
> Although a height difference between in and out might indicate a weir or
> other obstruction may well indicate that a route is non-navigable? The
> outflow from a dam may have the same name, but have no use as a through
> route?

This is more about the water flow than about being navigable by a ship.

Jochen
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Re: [OSM-talk] Some thoughts against remote mapping

[John Eldredge]

We need to encourage local mapping, but large-scale disasters create a need 
for immediate maps, which, in some cases, means outside help is needed.


--
John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com
"Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot 
drive out hate; only love can do that." -- Martin Luther King, Jr.




On June 14, 2015 13:35:09 Bryce Nesbitt  wrote:


On Sat, Jun 13, 2015 at 7:52 PM, Kate Chapman  wrote:

>  What about in the situations where locals would like to make their own
> map but this is not financially feasible? If we are creating truly a free
> map of the entire world it is important to figure out how not to just make
> a map of the privileged. Should lack of access to internet and technology
> be a reason someone can't contribute to this map?
>

So what about supporting efforts like "one laptop per child", to seed
technology that would never be
developed locally.  And with those tools, see what people create.



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Re: [OSM-talk] Some thoughts against remote mapping

[John Eldredge]

The claim that the maps are only for the benefit of Westerners implies that 
non-Western people never travel to or trade with areas beyond their 
immediate neighborhoods.


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On June 14, 2015 07:58:51 Frederik Ramm  wrote:


Hi,

On 06/14/2015 02:12 PM, Jóhannes Birgir Jensson wrote:
> I find this point of view to be astounding in its arrogance and indeed
> blatant colonialistic spirit.

Harsh words.

In the final paragraph of your blog post, you write:

"In addition the locals are not the only people who will need to use a
map. Tourists, passers-by, people moving their goods or offering their
services also need maps of places where they go. Everyone needs a map
even if not everyone wants to make it or use it."

But this is exactly the criticism we're facing - bluntly put:
"Westerners need maps of places so they can conquer them by selling
their products and services."

Bye
Frederik

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Re: [OSM-talk] OSM is a right mess

[John Eldredge]

In urban areas, it is common to have mixed-use buildings as well, with 
retail or services on the ground floor and residential units on upper floors.


--
John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com
"Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot 
drive out hate; only love can do that." -- Martin Luther King, Jr.




On June 3, 2015 7:13:39 PM Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com> wrote:


On 4/06/2015 9:48 AM, pmailkeey . wrote:
>
>
>
> A value of residential here  seems to need a key to identify whether
> it relates to a building or landuse. However, you suggest
> building=residential as possibly being redundant. In fact, I'd turn
> this on its head and make landuse=residential (with the exception of
> moles) redundant. The only residential landuse is directly under a
> building but by using landuse=residential, such areas cover gardens
> and highways - which are clearly not residences.
>

No.
Landuse - a facility (what it gets used for)
The governmental authority here says an area is for residential use ..
They do that before there are any houses thus it is not just the area
under a building.

building - a physical item (what is there on the ground)
A building that is used for residences has a particular set of features
that distinguish it for other building types e.g. a mall.

--
I use my garden! I go out there and read, email .. even do OSM ... in
the garden.
The street in front of my home gets used by the kids to play soccer,
tennis ...

The land use is 'residential' .. even in the garden. And the neighbours
swimming pool.
The house is also residential.

I and my neighbours reside here - we use all of it.

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Re: [OSM-talk] Craigslist OpenStreetMap Rendering Issue

[John Eldredge]

Yes, I would class this as a rendering error on Craigslist's part, not a 
data error on OSM's part. It sounds like the code is checking for the 
presence of the oneway tag, where it should be checking for the presence of 
oneway=yes.


--
John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com
"Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot 
drive out hate; only love can do that." -- Martin Luther King, Jr.




On May 31, 2015 2:05:06 AM Bryce Nesbitt  wrote:


After a long stretch of oneway=yes, I might indeed tag oneway=no
just to keep someone from assuming I'd made a mistake.  oneway=no is a
declaration,
as opposed to a lack of information.



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