Re: [OSM-talk] [OSM-legal-talk] Unsetting CT flag
On Wed, 8 Dec 2010 15:58:07 +1000 John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com wrote: On 8 December 2010 12:44, Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org wrote: Hi, John Smith wrote: Frederik seems to consistently misrepresent the license in this sort of dishonest fashion, Well at least I'm not misrepresenting my identity. I also think that all So in other words it's ok to lie to everyone about the license and the implication, but it's the worst kind of sin to have a pen name, it's a really good thing that you have your priorities the right way round... ___ Not really off topic now Did Mrs Coast's parents actually name her Hurricane or is it a pen-name too? It's not possible to be sure with names in English these days. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [OSM-legal-talk] Unsetting CT flag
On 8 December 2010 10:37, Simon Ward si...@bleah.co.uk wrote: On Mon, Dec 06, 2010 at 07:58:26PM +0100, Frederik Ramm wrote: ODbL is not a PD license, so you do not have to be afraid. The Contributor Terms effectively change the licence. Frederik seems to consistently misrepresent the license in this sort of dishonest fashion, I've seen some of the emails he wrote on the subject of license changes during 2009 and he showed much more integrity and moral fiber on the subject, it's such a shame he, and others keep doing this. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [OSM-legal-talk] Unsetting CT flag
On 8 December 2010 00:50, John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com wrote: On 8 December 2010 10:37, Simon Ward si...@bleah.co.uk wrote: On Mon, Dec 06, 2010 at 07:58:26PM +0100, Frederik Ramm wrote: ODbL is not a PD license, so you do not have to be afraid. The Contributor Terms effectively change the licence. Frederik seems to consistently misrepresent the license in this sort of dishonest fashion, I've seen some of the emails he wrote on the subject of license changes during 2009 and he showed much more integrity and moral fiber on the subject, it's such a shame he, and others keep doing this. Disappointing as ever... [citation needed] Regards Grant ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [OSM-legal-talk] Unsetting CT flag
On 8 December 2010 11:08, Grant Slater openstreet...@firefishy.com wrote: Disappointing as ever... [citation needed] What is disappointing is you can't or won't spend the time to brush up on the history of the license debate, or when you see a false statement being made repeatedly and you don't bother to ask the person to retract their comment and to refrain from pushing the same false statements in future. Instead you choose to make emotive statements trying to belittle those that would like to see a lot more honesty and transparency on the license debacle. You have just proven Steve Bennett point perfectly: I don't know how to have constructive discussions on the topic though - most seem to devolve fairly rapidly. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [OSM-legal-talk] Unsetting CT flag
Hi, John Smith wrote: Frederik seems to consistently misrepresent the license in this sort of dishonest fashion, Well at least I'm not misrepresenting my identity. I also think that all imports should be banned, and that John Smith should circumnavigate Australia in a dinghy in order to map its coastline. I'll have a few more constructive things to say over on legal-talk, but i'm really not inclined to discuss my moral fiber with you. Bye Frederik -- Frederik Ramm ## eMail frede...@remote.org ## N49°00'09 E008°23'33 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [OSM-legal-talk] Unsetting CT flag
On 8 December 2010 12:44, Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org wrote: Hi, John Smith wrote: Frederik seems to consistently misrepresent the license in this sort of dishonest fashion, Well at least I'm not misrepresenting my identity. I also think that all So in other words it's ok to lie to everyone about the license and the implication, but it's the worst kind of sin to have a pen name, it's a really good thing that you have your priorities the right way round... ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [OSM-legal-talk] Unsetting CT flag
On Mon, Dec 6, 2010 at 6:58 PM, Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org wrote: Hi, pec...@gmail.com wrote: License is fine. It is CT which in fact still allows OSMF to change data license to any other free license (which could be strip share alike and attribution requirements) what blocks usage. In fact, there is NO license which allows such CT to coexist. Only PD, and that's even not working in all countries. I'm sure that if, at any time in the future, the OSM license needs to be changed, it will be into something that works in all countries. We don't know if it will ever be necessary; we don't know what that license might be; we don't even know which countries will be around then and what their legal systems will look like. Think long-term! This is not a clause aimed at next year. I know that ODbL team talked about changing description of free license, but I don't see any official statements about that. I'm afraid that PDists got their way all over again. ODbL is not a PD license, so you do not have to be afraid. As for the distant future - we don't know who will be in OSM then, what their preferences will be, and wheter you and I will be alive then. I think it is ok to let those who *then* run OSM decide, instead of trying to force onto them what we today think is right. I think the problem with this idea is that it opens the door for carpetbaggers[1]. The purpose of share-alike licenses is to prevent the freeness of people's contributions from *ever* being hijacked. I, for one, certainly want to ensure that whoever runs OSM at some indeterminate point in the future can not pervert the principle on which I made my contributions. Anything less is unacceptable and is disrespectful to those who built OSM in the first place. 80n [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carpetbagger#United_Kingdom And legal-talk is that way --- Bye Frederik -- Frederik Ramm ## eMail frede...@remote.org ## N49°00'09 E008°23'33 ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-t...@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
