Re: [OSM-talk] [talk-au] Adoption of OSM geometry as state mapping base

[Andrew Davidson]

On Fri, Feb 10, 2023 at 11:41 AM rob potter  wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> I am representing the state transport department Department of Transport and 
> Planning (Victoria, Australia) - OpenStreetMap Wiki and we are looking to 
> consume the OSM road & rail networks for our operations.

Sounds interesting. Another OSM policy that you'll need to know about
is https://wiki.osmfoundation.org/wiki/Organised_Editing_Guidelines

Looking down the list of things that you are planning on doing I note
that one of the items on the list is "Tram and Bus stops". It would be
really helpful if you could get PTV to sign the required waiver
(https://wiki.osmfoundation.org/wiki/Licence/Waiver_and_Permission_Templates)
to let us use the data in OSM. We've got an active group of mappers in
Vic that want to do public transport mapping but are being held back
by the fact that we've been trying to get permission since 2019 to use
the data.

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Re: [OSM-talk] [talk-au] Adoption of OSM geometry as state mapping base

[Andrew Davidson]

On Sat, Feb 11, 2023 at 8:57 AM Andrew Harvey  wrote:
> The terms cover data distribution, ie downloading from 
> planet.openstreetmap.org so you need to go through those terms to obtain OSM 
> data regardless of the ODbL.

Which can be found here: https://www.openstreetmap.org/copyright

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Re: [OSM-talk] [talk-au] Adoption of OSM geometry as state mapping base

[forster]

Hi Rob

A warm welcome to you and the Department of Transport to OSM (just  
speaking for myself, one of over 8 million contributors.)


Its an exciting time for me to be an OSM contributor as OSM is  
becoming the preferred map for so many.


Sorry if I have missed something but this post confused me and may  
perplex many on this list.


You appear to be asking a legal question, is it allowed to use OSM  
data to "Operate dangerous businesses such as emergency services or  
air traffic control"

This text appears to be a quote from the https://wiki.osmfoundation.org.

You did the right thing approaching the community first but there may  
not be too many lawyers on this list. Maybe the osmfoundation will  
have to reply


Good luck, I hope that we can work together.

Tony
(One of 8 million volunteers)


Hi,

I am representing the state transport department Department of Transport
and Planning (Victoria, Australia) - OpenStreetMap Wiki

and
we are looking to consume the OSM road & rail networks for our operations.

*Lawyers have raised a concern about these conditions, as the road data use
is supplied to our emergency services fire and ambulance.  We have not
started using the information but we are implementing a system of
validation and change detection, then produce an authoritative version for
other agency consumption.*
*Unlawful and other unauthorized uses include a clause "Operate dangerous
businesses such as emergency services or air traffic control, where the use
or failure of the Services could lead to death, personal injury or
significant property damage;" and "Store data available through the
Services in order to evade these Terms (including aiding anyone else in
doing so); or"*

Please any advice would be greatly appreciated, ultimately we will enhance
the overall content of OSM in the Victoria, but really do not want to cause
problems later.

Thanks,

Rob







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Re: [OSM-talk] [talk-au] Adoption of OSM geometry as state mapping base

[stevea]

My local chapter of OSM is in the USA (OSM-US), but yes, I think you (all) are 
on the right approach here:  the "Australia / Oceania Chapter" (I think it is, 
or is called) as a semi-formal sub-community within OSM, or even an "official" 
chapter, is the "first stop" along the way of this sort of "thread the legal 
needle" here, then it might go to the Foundation (LWG, Legal Working Group, I 
believe) as a "they'll figure it out" last stop, perhaps.

So, now at the regional level, maybe at the "global, legal" level (the 
Foundation's LWG) if not fully "resolved" at the regional / Oceania level.

Sorry to be a bit hazy, but it should come into better focus soon; somewhere 
around there, it WILL get resolved.
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Re: [OSM-talk] [talk-au] Adoption of OSM geometry as state mapping base

[Andrew Harvey]

Hi Rob,

Interesting point you raise!

While on the surface you'd think terms (from the OSMF Terms of Use
https://wiki.osmfoundation.org/wiki/Terms_of_Use#III._Unlawful_and_other_unauthorized_uses)
only ask you not to use OSMF services like the website, API for those
purposes and not the data, it includes "data distribution".

I suggest you raise this on the legal talk mailing list
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk and/or directly with
the OSMF legal-questi...@osmfoundation.org (
https://wiki.osmfoundation.org/wiki/Contact).

On Fri, 10 Feb 2023 at 11:41, rob potter  wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I am representing the state transport department Department of Transport
> and Planning (Victoria, Australia) - OpenStreetMap Wiki
> 
>  and
> we are looking to consume the OSM road & rail networks for our operations.
>
> *Lawyers have raised a concern about these conditions, as the road data
> use is supplied to our emergency services fire and ambulance.  We have not
> started using the information but we are implementing a system of
> validation and change detection, then produce an authoritative version for
> other agency consumption.*
> *Unlawful and other unauthorized uses include a clause "Operate dangerous
> businesses such as emergency services or air traffic control, where the use
> or failure of the Services could lead to death, personal injury or
> significant property damage;" and "Store data available through the
> Services in order to evade these Terms (including aiding anyone else in
> doing so); or"*
>
> Please any advice would be greatly appreciated, ultimately we will enhance
> the overall content of OSM in the Victoria, but really do not want to cause
> problems later.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Rob
> ___
> Talk-au mailing list
> talk...@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
>
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