[OSM-talk] Crimea/Russia/Ukraine Borders
I'm curious how OSM handles this dispute. I expect Russia's parliament ratify the annexation and I expect that Ukraine will continue to disagree. Do we have a documented process in place to determine when the border is changed? I couldn't find anything on the wiki after a quick search. If it is documented, can someone please point it out to me? We have a disputes page which is fine for handling disputes. I'm looking for the process for determining when we all agree that a border should be changed. Please, let's not get hung up on if you agree or disagree with the annexation. Thanks, Clifford -- @osm_seattle osm_seattle.snowandsnow.us OpenStreetMap: Maps with a human touch ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Crimea/Russia/Ukraine Borders
2014-03-18 16:28 GMT+01:00 Clifford Snow cliff...@snowandsnow.us: I'm curious how OSM handles this dispute. I expect Russia's parliament ratify the annexation and I expect that Ukraine will continue to disagree. Do we have a documented process in place to determine when the border is changed? I couldn't find anything on the wiki after a quick search. If it is documented, can someone please point it out to me? We have a disputes page which is fine for handling disputes. I'm looking for the process for determining when we all agree that a border should be changed. an indication might be what the united nations decide. Another idea is to ask the local mappers (will not necessarily lead to univocal statements ;-) ). cheers, Martin ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Crimea/Russia/Ukraine Borders
The DWG has an OSMF approved process for handling political disputes. There's no reason to start a flamewar about this. - Serge On Tue, Mar 18, 2014 at 11:28 AM, Clifford Snow cliff...@snowandsnow.us wrote: I'm curious how OSM handles this dispute. I expect Russia's parliament ratify the annexation and I expect that Ukraine will continue to disagree. Do we have a documented process in place to determine when the border is changed? I couldn't find anything on the wiki after a quick search. If it is documented, can someone please point it out to me? We have a disputes page which is fine for handling disputes. I'm looking for the process for determining when we all agree that a border should be changed. Please, let's not get hung up on if you agree or disagree with the annexation. Thanks, Clifford -- @osm_seattle osm_seattle.snowandsnow.us OpenStreetMap: Maps with a human touch ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Crimea/Russia/Ukraine Borders
On Tue, Mar 18, 2014 at 8:39 AM, Serge Wroclawski emac...@gmail.com wrote: The DWG has an OSMF approved process for handling political disputes. There's no reason to start a flamewar about this. Serge, Rather than start a flamewar, I was looking for the process. A well document process is a quick way to smother a flamewar. And as I said in my quick search, I did find the disputes page of the wiki. It does show a document process for handling disputes. But that isn't what I asked. So let me ask again another way. Do we have a documented process for determining when we change borders? If the answer is no, then do we need one? -- @osm_seattle osm_seattle.snowandsnow.us OpenStreetMap: Maps with a human touch ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Crimea/Russia/Ukraine Borders
I don't think anyone was starting a flamewar. Clifford just asked about the process you alluded to. On Tue, Mar 18, 2014 at 11:39 AM, Serge Wroclawski emac...@gmail.comwrote: The DWG has an OSMF approved process for handling political disputes. There's no reason to start a flamewar about this. - Serge On Tue, Mar 18, 2014 at 11:28 AM, Clifford Snow cliff...@snowandsnow.us wrote: I'm curious how OSM handles this dispute. I expect Russia's parliament ratify the annexation and I expect that Ukraine will continue to disagree. Do we have a documented process in place to determine when the border is changed? I couldn't find anything on the wiki after a quick search. If it is documented, can someone please point it out to me? We have a disputes page which is fine for handling disputes. I'm looking for the process for determining when we all agree that a border should be changed. Please, let's not get hung up on if you agree or disagree with the annexation. Thanks, Clifford -- @osm_seattle osm_seattle.snowandsnow.us OpenStreetMap: Maps with a human touch ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Crimea/Russia/Ukraine Borders
Actually our policy on such matters (not on edit wars) is documented here http://wiki.osmfoundation.org/wiki/Policies_and_other_Documents Simon signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Crimea/Russia/Ukraine Borders
2014-03-18 16:45 GMT+01:00 Clifford Snow cliff...@snowandsnow.us: On Tue, Mar 18, 2014 at 8:39 AM, Serge Wroclawski emac...@gmail.comwrote: The DWG has an OSMF approved process for handling political disputes. There's no reason to start a flamewar about this. Serge, Rather than start a flamewar, I was looking for the process. A well document process is a quick way to smother a flamewar. And as I said in my quick search, I did find the disputes page of the wiki. It does show a document process for handling disputes. But that isn't what I asked. So let me ask again another way. Do we have a documented process for determining when we change borders? If the answer is no, then do we need one? Like this? http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Disputes BTW it could be similar to the case South Ossetia / Abkazia... -- @osm_seattle osm_seattle.snowandsnow.us OpenStreetMap: Maps with a human touch ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Crimea/Russia/Ukraine Borders
On Tue, Mar 18, 2014 at 8:58 AM, Simon Poole si...@poole.ch wrote: Actually our policy on such matters (not on edit wars) is documented here http://wiki.osmfoundation.org/wiki/Policies_and_other_Documents Simon, Thanks - That helps. I didn't think of looking at the Foundations wiki. While not a process it does give a better understanding of how OSM handles border disputes. For those who didn't read the document, this is the relevant section: Borders and boundaries National borders are particularly sensitive. Currently, we record one set that, in OpenStreetMap contributor opinion, is most widely internationally recognised and best meets realities on the ground, generally meaning physical control. In areas without clearly defined borders, the line is approximate. Our database structure enables mapmakers to easily ignore this set and substitute another more appropriate to your needs. In the future, we may look at supporting alternative sets directly. Should this section be restated in the OSM wiki under boundaries? -- @osm_seattle osm_seattle.snowandsnow.us OpenStreetMap: Maps with a human touch ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Crimea/Russia/Ukraine Borders
Clifford Snow wrote: Should this section be restated in the OSM wiki under boundaries? Perhaps better to link to the OSMF document? Ed ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Crimea/Russia/Ukraine Borders
You might be interested in this blog post: http://shtosm.ru/all/chto-s-krymom/ I use Google translate to turn it into English. The Russian mappers already have a proposal in place to update the borders regards m On Tue, Mar 18, 2014 at 5:37 PM, Ed Loach edlo...@gmail.com wrote: Clifford Snow wrote: Should this section be restated in the OSM wiki under boundaries? Perhaps better to link to the OSMF document? Ed ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Crimea/Russia/Ukraine Borders
Interesting. How much of a connection is there between the Russian OSM community and the English-speaking OSM community (that essentially runs the project)? On Mar 18, 2014 11:45 AM, Marc Gemis marc.ge...@gmail.com wrote: You might be interested in this blog post: http://shtosm.ru/all/chto-s-krymom/ I use Google translate to turn it into English. The Russian mappers already have a proposal in place to update the borders regards m On Tue, Mar 18, 2014 at 5:37 PM, Ed Loach edlo...@gmail.com wrote: Clifford Snow wrote: Should this section be restated in the OSM wiki under boundaries? Perhaps better to link to the OSMF document? Ed ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Crimea/Russia/Ukraine Borders
I'm thinking the tagging for Crimea would be similar to what we're seeing right now around Tartupaluk in the ongoing Greenland/Canada border dispute. On Tue, Mar 18, 2014 at 10:28 AM, Clifford Snow cliff...@snowandsnow.uswrote: I'm curious how OSM handles this dispute. I expect Russia's parliament ratify the annexation and I expect that Ukraine will continue to disagree. Do we have a documented process in place to determine when the border is changed? I couldn't find anything on the wiki after a quick search. If it is documented, can someone please point it out to me? We have a disputes page which is fine for handling disputes. I'm looking for the process for determining when we all agree that a border should be changed. Please, let's not get hung up on if you agree or disagree with the annexation. Thanks, Clifford -- @osm_seattle osm_seattle.snowandsnow.us OpenStreetMap: Maps with a human touch ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Crimea/Russia/Ukraine Borders
On Tue, Mar 18, 2014 at 05:43:11PM +0100, Marc Gemis wrote: You might be interested in this blog post: http://shtosm.ru/all/chto-s-krymom/ I use Google translate to turn it into English. The Russian mappers already have a proposal in place to update the borders Speechless Flo -- Florian Lohoff f...@zz.de signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Crimea/Russia/Ukraine Borders
Hi! Russian and Ukrainian community, including DWG member Eugene Sandulenko, have come to an agreement to not touch administrative borders and name tags of Crimea until 1st of June, 0:01 MSK. The situation there is quite unstable and will change significantly in coming months. Ukrainian president elections will be held on 25th of May, and we expect thing to be more clear after that. Every edit touching name tags and administrative borders will be treated as provoking an edit war and reverted, users who do that repeatedly will be banned. Sorry if that was your plan for coming weeks. Please do not discuss politics on this mailing list. IZ From: Clifford Snow cliff...@snowandsnow.us I'm curious how OSM handles this dispute. I expect Russia's parliament ratify the annexation and I expect that Ukraine will continue to disagree. Do we have a documented process in place to determine when the border is changed? I couldn't find anything on the wiki after a quick search. If it is documented, can someone please point it out to me? We have a disputes page which is fine for handling disputes. I'm looking for the process for determining when we all agree that a border should be changed. Please, let's not get hung up on if you agree or disagree with the annexation. IZ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
