Re: [OSM-talk] Donations and bank accounts

[Thorsten Feles]

Tom Hughes schrieb:
> Stefan Baebler wrote:
>>> > Gary68 wrote:
>>> >> I for sure won't sign on to PayPal. And I won't give my bank
>>> xxEUR for
>>> >> shipping a few bucks across the channel.
>> Within Europe SEPA [1] transfers are probably the cheapest (for both
>> parties, in some cases even free with certain bank accounts) way to make
>> international money transfers.
> 
> SEPA rules do apply when transferring to the UK (though most UK banks 
> will happily pretend they don't) but only when transferring to an 
> account denominated in Euros, which most UK accounts aren't ;-)
> 
>> When I just tried to make such donation per instructions [2], i got an
>> error: BIC code is either invalid or not in the list of codes for SEPA
>> orders. (original slovenian: "Nepravilna BIC koda, ali BIC koda ni v
>> šifrantu za SEPA naloge")
> 
> Because you're transferring to a GBP account not an EUR account, so even 
> if it did work using BIC/IBAN the transfer wouldn't be subject to SEPA 
> rules and there would be no restrictions on the charges that could be 
> levied.

Should not be too difficult to set up a Euro bank account in the UK. I
do not know about the costs, but it might be cheaper then paying for
each Euro transaction an extra fee. Or use Fossgis or somebody else as a
trustee. Just keeping in mind that are much more people living in the
Euro zone then there are in the UK. Or just have a look at the
contributer base, most of them are outside of the UK. So please do not
waste money by not getting organized  ;-)

Thorsten

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Re: [OSM-talk] Donations and bank accounts

[Tom Hughes]

Stefan Baebler wrote:
>> > Gary68 wrote:
>> >> I for sure won't sign on to PayPal. And I won't give my bank
>> xxEUR for
>> >> shipping a few bucks across the channel.
> 
> Within Europe SEPA [1] transfers are probably the cheapest (for both
> parties, in some cases even free with certain bank accounts) way to make
> international money transfers.

SEPA rules do apply when transferring to the UK (though most UK banks 
will happily pretend they don't) but only when transferring to an 
account denominated in Euros, which most UK accounts aren't ;-)

> When I just tried to make such donation per instructions [2], i got an
> error: BIC code is either invalid or not in the list of codes for SEPA
> orders. (original slovenian: "Nepravilna BIC koda, ali BIC koda ni v
> šifrantu za SEPA naloge")

Because you're transferring to a GBP account not an EUR account, so even 
if it did work using BIC/IBAN the transfer wouldn't be subject to SEPA 
rules and there would be no restrictions on the charges that could be 
levied.

Tom

-- 
Tom Hughes (t...@compton.nu)
http://www.compton.nu/

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Re: [OSM-talk] Donations and bank accounts

[80n]

On Fri, Feb 6, 2009 at 8:36 AM, Stefan Baebler wrote:

> > > Gary68 wrote:
> > >> I for sure won't sign on to PayPal. And I won't give my bank
> > xxEUR for
> > >> shipping a few bucks across the channel.
>
> Within Europe SEPA [1] transfers are probably the cheapest (for both
> parties, in some cases even free with certain bank accounts) way to make
> international money transfers.
>
> When I just tried to make such donation per instructions [2], i got an
> error: BIC code is either invalid or not in the list of codes for SEPA
> orders. (original slovenian: "Nepravilna BIC koda, ali BIC koda ni v
> šifrantu za SEPA naloge")
>

The Co-operative Bank is not yet part of the SEPA system.  However, you
should still be able to make money transfers using the BIC/IBAN codes, but
just not as SEPA transactions.

Etienne


>
> Can someone please check if account can recieve such transfers and the
> "Co-operative Bank" is included in the SEPA system before i contact my
> bank?
>
> thanks,
> Stefan
>
>
> [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single_Euro_Payments_Area
> [2] http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Donations#International_Donations
>
>
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Re: [OSM-talk] Donations and bank accounts

[Stefan Baebler]

> > Gary68 wrote:
> >> I for sure won't sign on to PayPal. And I won't give my bank
> xxEUR for
> >> shipping a few bucks across the channel.

Within Europe SEPA [1] transfers are probably the cheapest (for both
parties, in some cases even free with certain bank accounts) way to make
international money transfers.

When I just tried to make such donation per instructions [2], i got an
error: BIC code is either invalid or not in the list of codes for SEPA
orders. (original slovenian: "Nepravilna BIC koda, ali BIC koda ni v
šifrantu za SEPA naloge")

Can someone please check if account can recieve such transfers and the
"Co-operative Bank" is included in the SEPA system before i contact my bank?

thanks,
Stefan


[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single_Euro_Payments_Area
[2] http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Donations#International_Donations



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Re: [OSM-talk] Donations and bank accounts

[80n]

On Thu, Feb 5, 2009 at 8:24 PM, Frederik Ramm  wrote:

> Hi,
>
> 80n wrote:
>
>> We are currently developing a federated membership structure to support
>> local chapters.  They will be able to accept funds locally and either use
>> them locally or channel them to the centre for this kind of funding.  I
>> expect this would be the best solution, but it is not completely in place
>> yet.
>>
>

Frederik

> But 80n, you were aware that we already have incorporated OSM Germany
> through the exitsting FOSSGIS e.V. - federated membership or no federated
> membership - and it would just have required a few days advance notice for
> us to set up something where FOSSGIS accepts funds for this and forwards the
> money to OSMF.
>

Actually I wasn't aware of this.


>
> If there had been just a note on the lists saying "by the way we're
> planning this", that would have been enough to make us think about this.
>

It wasn't planned as a surprise.  The donation site was just put up as soon
as it was ready, planning really didn't come into it.


>
> Sometimes I think the foundation is hurting its own goals by being so damn
> secretive. Why did you have to make this a surprise? What was gained by
> that?
>

Unfortunately we are still not communicating very well with the community.
In most cases this is unintentional.

80n



>
> Bye
> Frederik
>
> --
> Frederik Ramm  ##  eMail frede...@remote.org  ##  N49°00'09" E008°23'33"
>
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Re: [OSM-talk] Donations and bank accounts

[Grant Slater]

Frederik Ramm wrote:
> Sometimes I think the foundation is hurting its own goals by being so 
> damn secretive. Why did you have to make this a surprise? What was 
> gained by that?
>   

80n is not to blame nor is the foundation.

There was a push from the OSM Sysadmins (yes, I'm to blame here) to get 
the donation stuff up and running quickly because we are getting nervous 
about the approaching 0.5->0.6 migration weekend. Without a new server 
it would be a nightmare.

I apologise, yet may I suggest that it is not too late to setup what you 
suggest; pending agreement from those involved.

Regards
 Grant


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Re: [OSM-talk] Donations and bank accounts

[Ian Dees]

On Thu, Feb 5, 2009 at 2:22 PM, Jens Müller  wrote:

> Ian Dees schrieb:
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Feb 5, 2009 at 2:09 PM, Claudius Henrichs  > > wrote:
> >
> > Am 05.02.2009 21:01, Grant Slater:
> > > Gary68 wrote:
> > >> I for sure won't sign on to PayPal. And I won't give my bank
> > xxEUR for
> > >> shipping a few bucks across the channel.
> > >>
> > >
> > > Having or signing up for a paypal account is not required.
> > >
> > > When you reach the paypal site there is a link (or form) on the
> left
> > > hand side to use your debit/credit card without having to login or
> > > signup to paypal.
> >
> > Even then you need to disclose an email, home address and even phone
> > number (!) to PayPal. A no-go for user who don't want to share data
> with
> > PayPal.
> >
> >
> > All of that information is required to do a complete credit/debit
> > authorization.
> >
>
> Phone number? Obviously not. (Other companies manage to charge a CC
> without it)


 From the PayPal terms of service:

When a member either sends a payment to, or requests a payment from, an
individual who is not a registered member of PayPal, we will retain the
information that the member submits to us, including, for example, the other
party's email address, Skype ID, phone number and/or name, for the benefit
of the member who is attempting to contact the non-member, so that the
member can see a complete record of his or her transactions, including
uncompleted transactions. Although this information is stored indefinitely,
we will not market to the non-member in any way at any time. Additionally,
these non-members have the same rights to access and correct information
about themselves (assuming that their detail(s) were correct enough to reach
them) as anyone else who uses PayPal.

PayPal say that they use the information you give them only to pass along to
the person receiving the payment so that any problems can be fixed later.
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Re: [OSM-talk] Donations and bank accounts

[Frederik Ramm]

Hi,

80n wrote:
> We are currently developing a federated membership structure to support
> local chapters.  They will be able to accept funds locally and either use
> them locally or channel them to the centre for this kind of funding.  I
> expect this would be the best solution, but it is not completely in place
> yet.

But 80n, you were aware that we already have incorporated OSM Germany 
through the exitsting FOSSGIS e.V. - federated membership or no 
federated membership - and it would just have required a few days 
advance notice for us to set up something where FOSSGIS accepts funds 
for this and forwards the money to OSMF.

If there had been just a note on the lists saying "by the way we're 
planning this", that would have been enough to make us think about this.

Sometimes I think the foundation is hurting its own goals by being so 
damn secretive. Why did you have to make this a surprise? What was 
gained by that?

Bye
Frederik

-- 
Frederik Ramm  ##  eMail frede...@remote.org  ##  N49°00'09" E008°23'33"

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Re: [OSM-talk] Donations and bank accounts

[Jens Müller]

Ian Dees schrieb:
> 
> 
> On Thu, Feb 5, 2009 at 2:09 PM, Claudius Henrichs  > wrote:
> 
> Am 05.02.2009 21:01, Grant Slater:
> > Gary68 wrote:
> >> I for sure won't sign on to PayPal. And I won't give my bank
> xxEUR for
> >> shipping a few bucks across the channel.
> >>
> >
> > Having or signing up for a paypal account is not required.
> >
> > When you reach the paypal site there is a link (or form) on the left
> > hand side to use your debit/credit card without having to login or
> > signup to paypal.
> 
> Even then you need to disclose an email, home address and even phone
> number (!) to PayPal. A no-go for user who don't want to share data with
> PayPal.
> 
> 
> All of that information is required to do a complete credit/debit
> authorization.
> 

Phone number? Obviously not. (Other companies manage to charge a CC
without it)


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Re: [OSM-talk] Donations and bank accounts

[Ian Dees]

On Thu, Feb 5, 2009 at 2:09 PM, Claudius Henrichs  wrote:

> Am 05.02.2009 21:01, Grant Slater:
> > Gary68 wrote:
> >> I for sure won't sign on to PayPal. And I won't give my bank xxEUR for
> >> shipping a few bucks across the channel.
> >>
> >
> > Having or signing up for a paypal account is not required.
> >
> > When you reach the paypal site there is a link (or form) on the left
> > hand side to use your debit/credit card without having to login or
> > signup to paypal.
>
> Even then you need to disclose an email, home address and even phone
> number (!) to PayPal. A no-go for user who don't want to share data with
> PayPal.
>

All of that information is required to do a complete credit/debit
authorization.
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Re: [OSM-talk] Donations and bank accounts

[Claudius Henrichs]

Am 05.02.2009 21:01, Grant Slater:
> Gary68 wrote:
>> I for sure won't sign on to PayPal. And I won't give my bank xxEUR for
>> shipping a few bucks across the channel.
>>
>
> Having or signing up for a paypal account is not required.
>
> When you reach the paypal site there is a link (or form) on the left
> hand side to use your debit/credit card without having to login or
> signup to paypal.

Even then you need to disclose an email, home address and even phone 
number (!) to PayPal. A no-go for user who don't want to share data with 
PayPal.

Claudius


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Re: [OSM-talk] Donations and bank accounts

[Grant Slater]

Gary68 wrote:
> I for sure won't sign on to PayPal. And I won't give my bank xxEUR for
> shipping a few bucks across the channel.
>   

Having or signing up for a paypal account is not required.

When you reach the paypal site there is a link (or form) on the left 
hand side to use your debit/credit card without having to login or 
signup to paypal.

Regards
 Grant



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Re: [OSM-talk] Donations and bank accounts

[80n]

Gary68
We fully understand your problem and continually review the possibilities.

We have to be sure that there are sufficient transactions / additional
donations to cover the costs of operating a bank account in other
countries.

We are currently developing a federated membership structure to support
local chapters.  They will be able to accept funds locally and either use
them locally or channel them to the centre for this kind of funding.  I
expect this would be the best solution, but it is not completely in place
yet.

Etienne

On Thu, Feb 5, 2009 at 7:15 PM, Gary68  wrote:

> Dear foundation,
>
> you should have a bank account in major countries. I'm sure it wouldn't
> hurt to have one in Germany. The Paypal barrier and the high charges of
> the banks for foreign transfers keep people from donating here. It is
> just being discussed in the German list.
>
> I for sure would donate then (and regularlier) ;-)
>
> I for sure won't sign on to PayPal. And I won't give my bank xxEUR for
> shipping a few bucks across the channel.
>
> Think about it!
>
> Gary68
>
>
>
>
>
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[OSM-talk] Donations and bank accounts

[Gary68]

Dear foundation,

you should have a bank account in major countries. I'm sure it wouldn't
hurt to have one in Germany. The Paypal barrier and the high charges of
the banks for foreign transfers keep people from donating here. It is
just being discussed in the German list.

I for sure would donate then (and regularlier) ;-)

I for sure won't sign on to PayPal. And I won't give my bank xxEUR for
shipping a few bucks across the channel.

Think about it!

Gary68





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