Re: [OSM-talk] Let's prepare to Fork OSM to a CCBYSA 2.0 continuation
2010/8/23 Michael Kugelmann michaelk_...@gmx.de: BTW: @Felix Hartmann using words like so fuck off. shows that you don't have arguments. So step back - defamation is alsways a sign of weakness. Learn a good conduct before you continues with the discussion. to be fair: he didn't write (others) should f**k off, what he meant was clearly state this somewhere and tell everyone else to fuck off. Thus I agree that this might not be adequate language, you shouldn't critisize him for that, probably he wasn't aware because English is not his primary language. On the argument I agree though: make your own mailing lists for your fork. It's probably OK to announce it here (with an URL where to go, which was actually missing in your announcement), but further discussions should then be brought to the place of your fork, not inside the resources of OSM. I also agree it would be absurd to have OSM handle over the account data of its contributors (and is against almost any privacy law at least in Europe). There is also no logics in that: people who want to can simply create a new account with their old credentials on the fork site (I'm not planning to join the fork, but if I was I surely wouldn't use the same pw I used for OSM). cheers, Martin ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Let's prepare to Fork OSM to a CCBYSA 2.0 continuation
On 23 August 2010 16:21, M∡rtin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com wrote: I also agree it would be absurd to have OSM handle over the account data of its contributors (and is against almost any privacy law at least in Europe). There is also no logics in that: people who want to can simply create a new account with their old credentials on the fork site (I'm not planning to join the fork, but if I was I surely wouldn't use the same pw I used for OSM). It's absurd and not really necessary to hand over the accounts data, OAuth solves this problem. But it makes a lot of sense to use the same credentials as on the OSM site because AFAIU Felix wants to give mappers a way to just continue mapping under the same conditions as they have been doing until now, without going through additional hassle. It's understandable they want to continue using the same accounts. As 80n already pointed out it's the job of those who want a change to fork instead of forcing the change on everyone, and forcing those who oppose to relaunch the project. Although it's discutible because the informal poll showed the support for the change was strong, I do think the osmf should have at least considered that path. Cheers ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Let's prepare to Fork OSM to a CCBYSA 2.0 continuation
On Mon, Aug 23, 2010 at 3:21 PM, M∡rtin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com wrote: 2010/8/23 Michael Kugelmann michaelk_...@gmx.de: BTW: @Felix Hartmann using words like so fuck off. shows that you don't have arguments. So step back - defamation is alsways a sign of weakness. Learn a good conduct before you continues with the discussion. to be fair: he didn't write (others) should f**k off, what he meant was clearly state this somewhere and tell everyone else to fuck off. Thus I agree that this might not be adequate language, you shouldn't critisize him for that, probably he wasn't aware because English is not his primary language. On the argument I agree though: make your own mailing lists for your fork. It's probably OK to announce it here (with an URL where to go, which was actually missing in your announcement), but further discussions should then be brought to the place of your fork, not inside the resources of OSM. I also agree it would be absurd to have OSM handle over the account data of its contributors (and is against almost any privacy law at least in Europe). There is also no logics in that: people who want to can simply create a new account with their old credentials on the fork site (I'm not planning to join the fork, but if I was I surely wouldn't use the same pw I used for OSM). There is absolutely no need for OSM to relinquish any private account data. No fork will ever need that data and I doubt that any fork would even bother asking OSM for it. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] Let's prepare to Fork OSM to a CCBYSA 2.0 continuation
Instead of just moaning about the Odbl, let's stark working on a future without Odbl. So let's do our best to convince as many mappers as possible to not accept Odbl, reopen registration to people who want to contribute under CCBYSA2.0 terms, and put pressure on OSMF and others to tell them that if they decide to go the Odbl way, they will loose us and also be faced with a fork. This is not for legal-talk, because it should not be about why we don't want the Odbl, but what WE can do to stop it and continue working under CCBYSA 2.0 This means we have to find a new domain, new servers, and get the usernames/passwords copied so people can login to the CCBYSA 2.0 fork without new registration. I put up a wiki page with a few points here, please contribute: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Ccbysa_fork ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Let's prepare to Fork OSM to a CCBYSA 2.0 continuation
On Sunday 22 August 2010, Felix Hartmann wrote: This means we have to find a new domain, new servers, and get the usernames/passwords copied so people can login to the CCBYSA 2.0 fork without new registration. How about you start with your own mailing lists? robert. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Let's prepare to Fork OSM to a CCBYSA 2.0 continuation
On 22.08.2010 12:26, Robert Scott wrote: On Sunday 22 August 2010, Felix Hartmann wrote: This means we have to find a new domain, new servers, and get the usernames/passwords copied so people can login to the CCBYSA 2.0 fork without new registration. How about you start with your own mailing lists? robert. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk Why should We? Is this mailinglist excluding anyone who does not agree to the Odbl? If so then clearly state this somewhere and tell everyone else so fuck off. As I hope this is not the case, currently we should be able to work from here too. (besides as I noticed by private mails, there are already people working on a fork on a rather private basis for now)... This list should be for general talk about OSM, and working on how to continue OSM as we know it, should be part of it! ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Let's prepare to Fork OSM to a CCBYSA 2.0 continuation
More talk from the folk who would rather brush everyone else's concerns under the carpet I see? I seriously look on OSM in despair at the moment with comments like that. Jeni On 22/08/2010 11:26, Robert Scott wrote: How about you start with your own mailing lists? ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Let's prepare to Fork OSM to a CCBYSA 2.0 continuation
Felix, Felix Hartmann wrote: Instead of just moaning about the Odbl, let's stark working on a future without Odbl. So let's do our best to convince as many mappers as possible to not accept Odbl, reopen registration to people who want to contribute under CCBYSA2.0 terms, and put pressure on OSMF and others to tell them that if they decide to go the Odbl way, they will loose us and also be faced with a fork. I am all for people being constructive, so you have my support if you want to create a fork, and I have no reason to tell people that they should not support that. There are certainly good uses for a fork. However, you do not only want to create a fork but *also* do your best to harm the rest of the project that goes along with ODbL. You say you want to convince as many people as possible not to sign up to ODbL, in order to cripple that effort, with the hope of in the end forcing everyone to stick with your fork. These two aspects are separate - you could set up a fork *without* doing anti-ODbL propaganda. I think this is unnecessary. Also, from discussions myself various others had with you on the German forum, I still have the impression that your opposition to ODbL is based on fear and uncertainty and not on fact. I don't think you have understood (or are willing to understand) the reasons for changing the license. (If you feel you need to discuss this further, please make sure to do so on legal-talk and not here.) This is not a good starting position for a fork. I'd rather have somone do it who doesn't do it out of blind protest and political propaganda. Bye Frederik -- Frederik Ramm ## eMail frede...@remote.org ## N49°00'09 E008°23'33 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Let's prepare to Fork OSM to a CCBYSA 2.0 continuation
On 22 August 2010 20:58, Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org wrote: This is not a good starting position for a fork. I'd rather have somone do it who doesn't do it out of blind protest and political propaganda. License disputes is one of the more common reasons for forks to occur. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Let's prepare to Fork OSM to a CCBYSA 2.0 continuation
Felix Hartmann schrieb: Instead of just moaning about the Odbl, let's stark working on a future without Odbl. So let's do our best to convince as many mappers as possible to not accept Odbl, reopen registration to people who want to contribute under CCBYSA2.0 terms, and put pressure on OSMF and others to tell them that if they decide to go the Odbl way, they will loose us and also be faced with a fork. I think this is quite interesting: if you do not do as I want, YOU will be responsible. Isn't there a term for this? I think it's blackmail This means we have to find a new domain, new servers, and get the usernames/passwords copied so people can login to the CCBYSA 2.0 fork without new registration. I think this could be a real problem. Because I for one do not agree to have my log in credentials copied to any other server. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Let's prepare to Fork OSM to a CCBYSA 2.0 continuation
Hi, John Smith wrote: This is not a good starting position for a fork. I'd rather have somone do it who doesn't do it out of blind protest and political propaganda. License disputes is one of the more common reasons for forks to occur. Yes, but it can be done clear-headed and without hatred. They want this, we want that, ok we do our different ways - what I didn't like about Felix's post was that it was *not* really about going forward but about ruining it for the others as much as possible. Bye Frederik -- Frederik Ramm ## eMail frede...@remote.org ## N49°00'09 E008°23'33 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Let's prepare to Fork OSM to a CCBYSA 2.0 continuation
On 22.08.2010 12:58, Frederik Ramm wrote: Felix, Felix Hartmann wrote: Instead of just moaning about the Odbl, let's stark working on a future without Odbl. So let's do our best to convince as many mappers as possible to not accept Odbl, reopen registration to people who want to contribute under CCBYSA2.0 terms, and put pressure on OSMF and others to tell them that if they decide to go the Odbl way, they will loose us and also be faced with a fork. I am all for people being constructive, so you have my support if you want to create a fork, and I have no reason to tell people that they should not support that. There are certainly good uses for a fork. However, you do not only want to create a fork but *also* do your best to harm the rest of the project that goes along with ODbL. You say you want to convince as many people as possible not to sign up to ODbL, in order to cripple that effort, with the hope of in the end forcing everyone to stick with your fork. As I stated, my goal is to have OSM to continue under CCBYSA2.0 - and I think this will workout best by showing the people that they do not have to blindly accept the new Odbl including the strange Contributor Terms. If there was a fair decision for the users, than the question would not be do you accept the new terms Yes or No, but which license do you prefer - (and which additional licenses would you accept to work with). The current process is simply dictated by people that do everything to push through ODbL, in hoping that most users blindly accept without ever thinking about it! It is clear that a fork makes only sense, if enough people participate in it, but the same is true for OSM under Odbl. If 80% of people wander of to work on the fork instead, than soon the remaining 20% of people will be faced to decide how they want to continue. So yes, I do want to do my best to stop the ODbl by showing everyone that it is possible for us, to continue successfully using CCBYSA. These two aspects are separate - you could set up a fork *without* doing anti-ODbL propaganda. I think this is unnecessary. Also, from discussions myself various others had with you on the German forum, I still have the impression that your opposition to ODbL is based on fear and uncertainty and not on fact. I don't think you have understood (or are willing to understand) the reasons for changing the license. (If you feel you need to discuss this further, please make sure to do so on legal-talk and not here.) This is not a good starting position for a fork. I'd rather have somone do it who doesn't do it out of blind protest and political propaganda. Bye Frederik ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Let's prepare to Fork OSM to a CCBYSA 2.0 continuation
On 22 August 2010 21:09, Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org wrote: Yes, but it can be done clear-headed and without hatred. They want this, we Considering how heated the debate over the license is, do you seriously think this won't happen on similar topics as well? want that, ok we do our different ways - what I didn't like about Felix's post was that it was *not* really about going forward but about ruining it for the others as much as possible. You are just as guilty over using emotive language as any of us. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Let's prepare to Fork OSM to a CCBYSA 2.0 continuation
On 22 August 2010 21:12, Robert Scott li...@humanleg.org.uk wrote: On Sunday 22 August 2010, Jenny Campbell wrote: everyone else's concerns You are trying to make it sound like there are a huge number of people that agree with you. Perhaps you genuinely believe that. If so I think you are tremendously mistaken. It is a very vocal minority. There You mean like the vocal minority for CTs/ODBL ? Most won't care either way, but some people might care less if they don't feel there is an option, at present the CTs/ODBL seem to be forced upon us or else we won't be able to keep our edits in the database or edit in future... who is making the ultimatum exactly? ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Let's prepare to Fork OSM to a CCBYSA 2.0 continuation
On Sun, Aug 22, 2010 at 6:08 PM, Felix Hartmann extremecar...@googlemail.com wrote: This means we have to find a new domain, new servers, and get the usernames/passwords copied so people can login to the CCBYSA 2.0 fork without new registration. If you must fork, fork the data (planet.osm), not the user data. I disagree with having my credentials being carried over to a separate project that I would not want to be involved in. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Let's prepare to Fork OSM to a CCBYSA 2.0 continuation
Le dimanche 22 août 2010 à 13:08, Florian Heer a écrit : This means we have to find a new domain, new servers, and get the usernames/passwords copied so people can login to the CCBYSA 2.0 fork without new registration. I think this could be a real problem. Because I for one do not agree to have my log in credentials copied to any other server. I agree with that. Although my login informations in OSM are not very sensible, I expect them to be reasonably confidential and only accessible to a few administrators. I have no problem if the data I contributed is copied by [one or multiple] fork (that's why a full history dump has been created, cf http://planet.openstreetmap.org/full-experimental/ ), but as those forks would be different projects I expect the account I created in OSM to be confined in that project. If, after some though, I decide I prefer to work on a fork, then I will create a new account there, possibly using the same user name if it is still available, or a new one. -- Renaud Michel ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Let's prepare to Fork OSM to a CCBYSA 2.0 continuation
On 22 August 2010 22:06, Renaud MICHEL r.h.michel+...@gmail.com wrote: Although my login informations in OSM are not very sensible, I expect them to be reasonably confidential and only accessible to a few administrators. I have no problem if the data I contributed is copied by [one or multiple] fork (that's why a full history dump has been created, cf http://planet.openstreetmap.org/full-experimental/ ), but as those forks would be different projects I expect the account I created in OSM to be confined in that project. If, after some though, I decide I prefer to work on a fork, then I will create a new account there, possibly using the same user name if it is still available, or a new one. I don't think making passwords publicly available is a good idea, but it might be a sign of good faith on OSM(F)'s behalf if it were to facilitate an easy method for people waiting to claim their account/edits on a forked database. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Let's prepare to Fork OSM to a CCBYSA 2.0 continuation
Am 22.08.2010 14:06, schrieb Renaud MICHEL: I have no problem if the data I contributed is copied by [one or multiple] fork (that's why a full history dump has been created, cf http://planet.openstreetmap.org/full-experimental/ ), but as those forks would be different projects I expect the account I created in OSM to be confined in that project. Full ACK, creating a fork under the same license would be covered by the current license anyway. Regards, Florian Heer ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Let's prepare to Fork OSM to a CCBYSA 2.0 continuation
Hi, forgive my ignorance, but are the licenses not some how compatible? I mean the work has been done up to now under ccsa20 and compatible license. So that means that the new license allows data from ccsa20 to be ported over, right? or do you need the permission of the new authors? if people want to continue without changing the license, would they be allowed to? Is this discussed fork really needed? thanks for filling me in, mike ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Let's prepare to Fork OSM to a CCBYSA 2.0 continuation
I don't think making passwords publicly available is a good idea, but it might be a sign of good faith on OSM(F)'s behalf if it were to facilitate an easy method for people waiting to claim their account/edits on a forked database. I hope you are kidding... When someone signed-up at OSM there wasn't written that that data would be public, and - in our society - is given for granted that these data are not redistribuited in any way. I think you are abusing of the idea of 'good faith' -- Fabio Alessandro Locati Home: Segrate, Milan, Italy (GMT +1) Phone: +39-328-3799681 MSN/Jabber/E-Mail: fabioloc...@gmail.com PGP Fingerprint: 5525 8555 213C 19EB 25F2 A047 2AD2 BE67 0F01 CA61 Involved in: KDE, OpenStreetMap, Ubuntu, Wikimedia ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Let's prepare to Fork OSM to a CCBYSA 2.0 continuation
Felix Hartmann schrieb: Instead of just moaning about the Odbl, let's stark working on a future without Odbl. If you do that, please do it on your own servers, mailing lists, and community, and with your own new project name, as a real fork of any project should do. Robert Kaiser ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Let's prepare to Fork OSM to a CCBYSA 2.0 continuation
On 22 August 2010 13:08, Florian Heer florianheerf...@yahoo.de wrote: Felix Hartmann schrieb: Instead of just moaning about the Odbl, let's stark working on a future without Odbl. So let's do our best to convince as many mappers as possible to not accept Odbl, reopen registration to people who want to contribute under CCBYSA2.0 terms, and put pressure on OSMF and others to tell them that if they decide to go the Odbl way, they will loose us and also be faced with a fork. I think this is quite interesting: if you do not do as I want, YOU will be responsible. Isn't there a term for this? I think it's blackmail Not at all. There are (oversimplifying things) two sides in this discussion, each side is telling the other side that they're wrong and will harm the project if they continue. If you're on one side you'll see the other side's arguments as blackmail. Same goes to Frederik, the ODbL group is trying to convince people that ODbL is the way to go and CC-By-SA is harmful, the CC-By-SA tries to convince them of the contrary. Both sides try to lobby the OSMF too. Both sides would prefer that the other side forks the project and they're left alone to continue as OpenStreetMap. If you don't express you opinion and try to convince others, you've failed, let's not try to censor this completely normal process of communication in a group project. Cheers ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Let's prepare to Fork OSM to a CCBYSA 2.0 continuation
I am not against a fork, but as Frederik already mentioned, there is no to debate about a fork and spread anti-odbl propaganda. There are other good reasons to fork, for me one of them is getting a more distributed database instead of everything in a single farm on a single location. I would not mind to discuss a fork, but I would prefer to see good arguments as to the why (keeping the current license being one) My 2 cents would be: - Being able to set up a globally distributed database farm - Changing from mysql to postgresql/postgis as the core database - Opening up on how to set up the core open-geodata database and creating your own node I am aware that this will introduce new issues, but as long as we keep an open discussion, not excluding any ideas and any group of people, it might be of benefit to all ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Let's prepare to Fork OSM to a CCBYSA 2.0 continuation
On Sun, Aug 22, 2010 at 10:12 AM, Robert Kaiser ka...@kairo.at wrote: Felix Hartmann schrieb: Instead of just moaning about the Odbl, let's stark working on a future without Odbl. If you do that, please do it on your own servers, mailing lists, and community, and with your own new project name, as a real fork of any project should do. Isn't the OSMF the one actually doing the fork, though? ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Let's prepare to Fork OSM to a CCBYSA 2.0 continuation
Le dimanche 22 août 2010 à 14:13, vous avez écrit : If, after some though, I decide I prefer to work on a fork, then I will create a new account there, possibly using the same user name if it is still available, or a new one. I don't think making passwords publicly available is a good idea, Actually, I'm not very concerned about the password (I don't reuse passwords), but more about the email I used to create the account at the time, which is a more personal email, as it was (and still is) guaranteed not to be displayed publicly. but it might be a sign of good faith on OSM(F)'s behalf if it were to facilitate an easy method for people waiting to claim their account/edits on a forked database. Actually, that would be more a sign that they are not trustworthy. -- Renaud Michel ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Let's prepare to Fork OSM to a CCBYSA 2.0 continuation
Le dimanche 22 août 2010 à 16:58, Milo van der Linden a écrit : - Changing from mysql to postgresql/postgis as the core database This one has already been done during the API 0.6 switch, see http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Servers/smaug So this is actually a reason to fork for the pro-mysql camp ;-) -- Renaud Michel ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Let's prepare to Fork OSM to a CCBYSA 2.0 continuation
Anthony schrieb: On Sun, Aug 22, 2010 at 10:12 AM, Robert Kaiserka...@kairo.at wrote: Felix Hartmann schrieb: Instead of just moaning about the Odbl, let's stark working on a future without Odbl. If you do that, please do it on your own servers, mailing lists, and community, and with your own new project name, as a real fork of any project should do. Isn't the OSMF the one actually doing the fork, though? They can't fork away from the current infrastructure, as they are providing it, AFAIK. Robert Kaiser ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Let's prepare to Fork OSM to a CCBYSA 2.0 continuation
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA512 Op 22-08-10 18:04, Renaud MICHEL schreef: Le dimanche 22 août 2010 à 16:58, Milo van der Linden a écrit : - Changing from mysql to postgresql/postgis as the core database This one has already been done during the API 0.6 switch, see http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Servers/smaug So this is actually a reason to fork for the pro-mysql camp ;-) The database is still not 'spatial' as far as we are informed? But I ack Milo's points. Distribution is what we need, and maybe even better if we can do distributed content as well. Hence: data on different layers not bothering eachother. Stefan -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.16 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEAREKAAYFAkxxU3MACgkQYH1+F2Rqwn2HzACbB+sbsj53bnIjorx5XJO1KdH/ BfcAniDYUIItw/RzKu/5Rv7L7Ez0385r =6QC7 -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Let's prepare to Fork OSM to a CCBYSA 2.0 continuation
On Sun, Aug 22, 2010 at 8:13 AM, John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com wrote: I don't think making passwords publicly available is a good idea, but it might be a sign of good faith on OSM(F)'s behalf if it were to facilitate an easy method for people waiting to claim their account/edits on a forked database. That would be OAuth. http://sharedmap.org/auth/ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Let's prepare to Fork OSM to a CCBYSA 2.0 continuation
Eugene Alvin Villar wrote: On Sun, Aug 22, 2010 at 6:08 PM, Felix Hartmann extremecar...@googlemail.com mailto:extremecar...@googlemail.com wrote: This means we have to find a new domain, new servers, and get the usernames/passwords copied so people can login to the CCBYSA 2.0 fork without new registration. If you must fork, fork the data (planet.osm), not the user data. I disagree with having my credentials being carried over to a separate project that I would not want to be involved in. When I signed up for an account with OSM I didn't realize that my account information was going into a database that was also CCBYSA. Although I accept that this probably was stated somewhere, I would prefer to not have my login information copied. Let me choose to create an account if I want to. Andy -- Andy PGP Key ID: 0xDC1B5864 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Let's prepare to Fork OSM to a CCBYSA 2.0 continuation
On Sun, Aug 22, 2010 at 1:43 PM, Andrew Ayre a...@britishideas.com wrote: When I signed up for an account with OSM I didn't realize that my account information was going into a database that was also CCBYSA. It's not. This is just the dream of the forkers and then lots of random commenters. - Serge ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Let's prepare to Fork OSM to a CCBYSA 2.0 continuation
On Sun, Aug 22, 2010 at 1:43 PM, Andrew Ayre a...@britishideas.com wrote: When I signed up for an account with OSM I didn't realize that my account information was going into a database that was also CCBYSA. It wasn't, although arguably, the entire database (including usernames, passwords, and email addresses) must be offered under section 4.6 of the ODbL. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Let's prepare to Fork OSM to a CCBYSA 2.0 continuation
On Sun, Aug 22, 2010 at 6:43 PM, Andrew Ayre a...@britishideas.com wrote: Eugene Alvin Villar wrote: On Sun, Aug 22, 2010 at 6:08 PM, Felix Hartmann extremecar...@googlemail.com mailto:extremecar...@googlemail.com wrote: This means we have to find a new domain, new servers, and get the usernames/passwords copied so people can login to the CCBYSA 2.0 fork without new registration. If you must fork, fork the data (planet.osm), not the user data. I disagree with having my credentials being carried over to a separate project that I would not want to be involved in. When I signed up for an account with OSM I didn't realize that my account information was going into a database that was also CCBYSA. Although I accept that this probably was stated somewhere, I would prefer to not have my login information copied. Let me choose to create an account if I want to. If there is a fork then no private account data will be shared with the fork. The only data that will be shared is the User ID and User Name both of which are already public. There will be a mechanism (oAuth or similar) which will enable users to transition from the Steve Coast OSM to any OSM fork with about three mouse clicks. At no time will private data ever be shared between any OSM forks. 80n ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Let's prepare to Fork OSM to a CCBYSA 2.0 continuation
Felix Hartmann wrote: As I stated, my goal is to have OSM to continue under CCBYSA2.0 As I see it CCBYSA is not a goal but a tool. Before asking us to work with - and to give our new data to - your project, it would be fair to tell us what your real goals are. Then ask some layers if CCBYSA is the right tool to achieve this goals. Norbert ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
