Re: [OSM-talk] Non-junctioning crossing roads
On Wed, Dec 2, 2009 at 10:26 AM, Liz wrote: > Swap back to your pushbike, or your legs only, mentally. > On foot you can definitely and legally turn left or right. > So its a valid junction for pedestrian routing. > Ah yes, that's a very valid point. Queens Rd is a horrible road for either walking or cycling though. No footpath northbound, and narrow left lane and no cycle lane. And especially when there's the lovely Lakeside Drive so nearby... Steve ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Non-junctioning crossing roads
On Wed, 2 Dec 2009, Steve Bennett wrote: > With apologies for ASCII art. Cars go from A to B, or from C to D, but they > can't turn. It's controlled by traffic lights. So, do I create the junction > represented by the +, or just let them cross over? If I create the > junction, how do I stop routing software trying to make turns? Swap back to your pushbike, or your legs only, mentally. On foot you can definitely and legally turn left or right. So its a valid junction for pedestrian routing. On the pushie, you could do a left turn with legal risks, or do a kerb jump to manage the left turn. Probably not valid for pushbike routing. Now add that to the relation you are making ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Non-junctioning crossing roads
Thanks Pieren, that's the kind of answer I was looking for: NO it's never a good idea to have two highways cross at the same level without an explicit junction. Steve On Wed, Dec 2, 2009 at 1:44 AM, Pieren wrote: > On Tue, Dec 1, 2009 at 2:42 PM, Steve Bennett > > Be careful. The question about the junction node is NOT about routing > but about physical modeling. Even if both roads are not allowing > turning left or right, you have to add a junction node (and the > relations about turning restrictions), othewise we will interpret them > as being at different levels and perhaps the tags "layer" and "bridge" > are missing. It is the same if a road is crossing a railway : add a > junction node if they are at the same physical level (then add the tag > junction=crossing or level_crossing) and DON'T create a junction node > if they are at different levels (then add the tags bridge/tunnel/layer > as usual). > > Pieren > ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Non-junctioning crossing roads
On Tue, Dec 1, 2009 at 2:42 PM, Steve Bennett Be careful. The question about the junction node is NOT about routing but about physical modeling. Even if both roads are not allowing turning left or right, you have to add a junction node (and the relations about turning restrictions), othewise we will interpret them as being at different levels and perhaps the tags "layer" and "bridge" are missing. It is the same if a road is crossing a railway : add a junction node if they are at the same physical level (then add the tag junction=crossing or level_crossing) and DON'T create a junction node if they are at different levels (then add the tags bridge/tunnel/layer as usual). Pieren ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Non-junctioning crossing roads
On Wed, Dec 2, 2009 at 12:39 AM, David Groom wrote: > Alternatively the whole junction restriction could be accomplished as > konrad > said by a couple of only_straight_on restrictions > > Ok, I've done that. About time I learnt how to create relations :) Anyone want to check that I got it right? Steve ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Non-junctioning crossing roads
> - Original Message - > From: David Groom > To: Steve Bennett ; Open Street Map mailing list > Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 1:33 PM > Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Non-junctioning crossing roads > > > Yes there should be a node at the crossing. > > Most of those ways are one way , so routing software would not allow many > turns anyway. The only turn I could see being currently as valid would be > when going south on Lakeside Drive and turning right onto the northbound > carriageway. To stop this you need a turn restriction relation. Oops. I could see a valid turn from the northbound carriage way left onto lakeside drive, so you would need a no_left turn restriction to stop that. Alternatively the whole junction restriction could be accomplished as konrad said by a couple of only_straight_on restrictions David > > http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Relation:restriction > > Basically with Lakeside drive having role "From", the junction node having > a role "via", and the Northbound carriage way having a role "to" > > David > > > > - Original Message - > From: Steve Bennett > To: Open Street Map mailing list > Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 1:14 PM > Subject: [OSM-talk] Non-junctioning crossing roads > > > Hi all, > Is it ever correct for two roads to cross physically, at the same level, > but not create a junction between them? > > The situation I have looks like: > > C > | > A-->-+->--B > | > v > | > D > > With apologies for ASCII art. Cars go from A to B, or from C to D, but > they can't turn. It's controlled by traffic lights. So, do I create the > junction represented by the +, or just let them cross over? If I create > the junction, how do I stop routing software trying to make turns? > > It's here if want to see it (Nearmap imagery): > http://www.openstreetmap.org/edit?lat=-37.85348&lon=144.979389&zoom=20 > > Queens Rd southbound branches to become Lakeside Drive, crosses Queens Rd > Northbound. > > Sorry for the noob question, just wanted to make sure I get this right. > > Steve > ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Non-junctioning crossing roads
Yes there should be a node at the crossing. Most of those ways are one way , so routing software would not allow many turns anyway. The only turn I could see being currently as valid would be when going south on Lakeside Drive and turning right onto the northbound carriageway. To stop this you need a turn restriction relation. http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Relation:restriction Basically with Lakeside drive having role "From", the junction node having a role "via", and the Northbound carriage way having a role "to" David - Original Message - From: Steve Bennett To: Open Street Map mailing list Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 1:14 PM Subject: [OSM-talk] Non-junctioning crossing roads Hi all, Is it ever correct for two roads to cross physically, at the same level, but not create a junction between them? The situation I have looks like: C | A-->-+->--B | v | D With apologies for ASCII art. Cars go from A to B, or from C to D, but they can't turn. It's controlled by traffic lights. So, do I create the junction represented by the +, or just let them cross over? If I create the junction, how do I stop routing software trying to make turns? It's here if want to see it (Nearmap imagery): http://www.openstreetmap.org/edit?lat=-37.85348&lon=144.979389&zoom=20 Queens Rd southbound branches to become Lakeside Drive, crosses Queens Rd Northbound. Sorry for the noob question, just wanted to make sure I get this right. Steve -- ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Non-junctioning crossing roads
In your special case I guess it would be OK to not create a junction. That will however lead to (false) warnings in OSM data validators and there is a chance that someone else will insert that junction later on, so I'll recommend putting the junction there now and use restriction relations. (e.g. only_stright_on) http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Relation:restriction Konrad 2009/12/1 Steve Bennett : > Hi all, > Is it ever correct for two roads to cross physically, at the same level, > but not create a junction between them? > > The situation I have looks like: > > C > | > A-->-+->--B > | > v > | > D > > With apologies for ASCII art. Cars go from A to B, or from C to D, but they > can't turn. It's controlled by traffic lights. So, do I create the junction > represented by the +, or just let them cross over? If I create the junction, > how do I stop routing software trying to make turns? > > It's here if want to see it (Nearmap imagery): > http://www.openstreetmap.org/edit?lat=-37.85348&lon=144.979389&zoom=20 > > Queens Rd southbound branches to become Lakeside Drive, crosses Queens Rd > Northbound. > > Sorry for the noob question, just wanted to make sure I get this right. > > Steve > > ___ > talk mailing list > talk@openstreetmap.org > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk > > ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] Non-junctioning crossing roads
Hi all, Is it ever correct for two roads to cross physically, at the same level, but not create a junction between them? The situation I have looks like: C | A-->-+->--B | v | D With apologies for ASCII art. Cars go from A to B, or from C to D, but they can't turn. It's controlled by traffic lights. So, do I create the junction represented by the +, or just let them cross over? If I create the junction, how do I stop routing software trying to make turns? It's here if want to see it (Nearmap imagery): http://www.openstreetmap.org/edit?lat=-37.85348&lon=144.979389&zoom=20 Queens Rd southbound branches to become Lakeside Drive, crosses Queens Rd Northbound. Sorry for the noob question, just wanted to make sure I get this right. Steve ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
