Re: [OSM-talk] Problem with usage of other values than yes for key building
Am 10.03.2015 um 21:35 schrieb Stefan Keller: > Hi, > > I have a problem with the usage values other yes in key building. > It seems to me that this any other usage of building=yes (for area > type) is almost purely redundant. > > When looking at taginfo [1], building has following three top most key usages: > yes 119260798 85% > house 11592812 8% > residential 3145218 2% > ... I suspect the numbers are strongly biased due to building outline imports. signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Problem with usage of other values than yes for key building
On 3/11/2015 6:37 AM, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: nd common editor presets. In iD without "expert mode / all tags" the only values for the building key are "yes" and "unknown" (which will not set any key I believe), if other tags like amenity etc. are also set. No way to enter free text then. FWIW, I've just yesterday filed a ticket for this: https://github.com/openstreetmap/iD/issues/2550 I just noticed a user changing all my specific building types to 'yes' with ID. I'm still trying to find out why before undoing that. I would consider a global change to 'building=yes' without saving that information in another key to be equivalent to vandalism due to the amount of information loss. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Problem with usage of other values than yes for key building
2015-03-10 21:35 GMT+01:00 Stefan Keller : > Then, when looking at the wiki page [2] it mostly points to > alternative tags, like > * building=apartment => tourism=apartment > the first is an apartment building, the latter a kind of accomodation > * building=hotel => tourism=hotel > the first is a building type, the latter a hotel (function) > * building=warehouse => shop=department_store (no indication to that > in warehouse > that's completely nonesense IMHO, a warehouse is a back area without public access, a department store is a shop typology. > * building=church/cathedral => amenity=place_of_worship > the first is a building type (like all building values btw., save "yes"), i.e. any building errected as or transformed into a church (architectonic typology), not necessarily used for worshipping nowadays, the latter is a place where worshipping takes place, does not have to be a building at all. > * building=school/hospital => amenity=school/hospital > the amenity goes on the whole area, including often / typically outdoor areas and other building types than "school" or "hospital", e.g. garages, heating plant, etc. Cheers, Martin ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Problem with usage of other values than yes for key building
2015-03-10 21:48 GMT+01:00 Simon Poole : > I suspect the numbers are strongly biased due to building outline imports. > +1 and common editor presets. In iD without "expert mode / all tags" the only values for the building key are "yes" and "unknown" (which will not set any key I believe), if other tags like amenity etc. are also set. No way to enter free text then. FWIW, I've just yesterday filed a ticket for this: https://github.com/openstreetmap/iD/issues/2550 Cheers, Martin ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Problem with usage of other values than yes for key building
On 11/03/2015, Andreas Vilén wrote: > I map buildings with the bulding_tools plugin and it would take > considerably longer if I looked for a better tag for each building I map, > and retag every tagged building=yes The way I handle that is by tracing buildings by type. All houses first, then all garages, etc. Then I search for "new building=yes", mass-tag them to the correct value, and move on to tracing the next type. Usually there isn't more than 3-4 building types in an area, so it really doesn't take much more time than using "yes" everywhere. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Problem with usage of other values than yes for key building
On 10/03/2015, Stefan Keller wrote: > Then, when looking at the wiki page [2] it mostly points to > alternative tags, like > * building=apartment => tourism=apartment > * building=hotel => tourism=hotel > * building=warehouse => shop=department_store (no indication to that > in warehouse > * building=church/cathedral => amenity=place_of_worship > * building=school/hospital => amenity=school/hospital They are not "alternative tags", but tags that are often associated with that building type. For example appartments are very often private, not touristic. Most warehouses are used for storage, not shops. Churches can be deconsecrated and not a place of worship anymore. Etc. Use building=* for what the building *is*, and the other tags for what the building is *used for*. Tagging the building type is very usefull: they can be rendered differently, QA tools know that sheds don't have an address (only the house beside it), city officials get a good view of what's constructed where, etc. "building=yes" is ok as a default, but you should consider upgrading it to a specific value. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Problem with usage of other values than yes for key building
I map buildings with the bulding_tools plugin and it would take considerably longer if I looked for a better tag for each building I map, and retag every tagged building=yes, so for that reason I almost never use any other value. If you want to map towns of 20-50 000 inhabitants, or larger rural areas, and not work for years that is the only workable method. For example, I'm currently (taking a break in) mapping every building on the island Öland, and have gotten about halfway after 6 months. It's not reasonable to look for more specific tags than =yes in cases like that. http://tasks.openstreetmap.se/job/23 Nowadays when I tag churches I normally tag both place of worship and building=church though. So I don't see how the building tag is redundant there. There are simply different uses for different tags. Also, as others have suggested, a hospital or a school often covers a much larger area than just one building. /Andreas On Tue, Mar 10, 2015 at 9:35 PM, Stefan Keller wrote: > Hi, > > I have a problem with the usage values other yes in key building. > It seems to me that this any other usage of building=yes (for area > type) is almost purely redundant. > > When looking at taginfo [1], building has following three top most key > usages: > yes 119260798 85% > house 11592812 8% > residential 3145218 2% > ... > > So, other than "yes" has a frequency of 15% and less. > > Then, when looking at the wiki page [2] it mostly points to > alternative tags, like > * building=apartment => tourism=apartment > * building=hotel => tourism=hotel > * building=warehouse => shop=department_store (no indication to that > in warehouse > * building=church/cathedral => amenity=place_of_worship > * building=school/hospital => amenity=school/hospital > > Sometimes when looking at wiki pages of building=* they even don't > mention the preferred tagging, like building=apartment [3]. > > I tend to stipulate that any other value than yes for key building > should be deprecated. > Or am I missing something? > > Yours, S. > > [1] http://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/keys/building#values > [2] http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:building > [3] http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:building%3Dapartments > > ___ > talk mailing list > talk@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk > ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Problem with usage of other values than yes for key building
On Tue, Mar 10, 2015 at 09:35:58PM +0100, Stefan Keller wrote: > Hi, > > I have a problem with the usage values other yes in key building. > It seems to me that this any other usage of building=yes (for area > type) is almost purely redundant. > > When looking at taginfo [1], building has following three top most key usages: > yes 119260798 85% > house 11592812 8% > residential 3145218 2% > ... > > So, other than "yes" has a frequency of 15% and less. > > Then, when looking at the wiki page [2] it mostly points to > alternative tags, like > * building=apartment => tourism=apartment > * building=hotel => tourism=hotel > * building=warehouse => shop=department_store (no indication to that > in warehouse > * building=church/cathedral => amenity=place_of_worship > * building=school/hospital => amenity=school/hospital amenity=school is for the whole area of the school not just the buildings and should carry the name of the school. The buildings of the school could be tagged as building=school. This is how i tagged for the past couple of years and how for example MapOSMatic interpreted amenity=school. This is how http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:amenity%3Dschool Shows the usage of the tag. Flo -- Florian Lohoff f...@zz.de We need to self-defense - GnuPG/PGP enable your email today! signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Problem with usage of other values than yes for key building
Hi, there was a discussion in the past about the difference. building=church may be a building that looks like and perhaps was a church once, but is e.g. a restaurant, disco or residential house now. It may still be a church building, with a tower and a tower bell, high curved windows and so on, without being a place_of_worship. Same holds for a school or hospital, that look different when it's later used for apartments than a building originally built for apartments. The other way around an amenity=school may be placed in a set of building=bungalow, or in an old monastery, where you see the building is a monastery, including a cloister, a chapel and stuff like that, which might be abandoned as such. So I support that the wiki should reflect that difference and point to the other value respectively, but it's not redundant as for most combinations you'll be able to find a counter example. Regards Peter Am 10.03.2015 um 21:35 schrieb Stefan Keller: > Hi, > > I have a problem with the usage values other yes in key building. > It seems to me that this any other usage of building=yes (for area > type) is almost purely redundant. > > When looking at taginfo [1], building has following three top most key usages: > yes 119260798 85% > house 11592812 8% > residential 3145218 2% > ... > > So, other than "yes" has a frequency of 15% and less. > > Then, when looking at the wiki page [2] it mostly points to > alternative tags, like > * building=apartment => tourism=apartment > * building=hotel => tourism=hotel > * building=warehouse => shop=department_store (no indication to that > in warehouse > * building=church/cathedral => amenity=place_of_worship > * building=school/hospital => amenity=school/hospital > > Sometimes when looking at wiki pages of building=* they even don't > mention the preferred tagging, like building=apartment [3]. > > I tend to stipulate that any other value than yes for key building > should be deprecated. > Or am I missing something? > > Yours, S. > > [1] http://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/keys/building#values > [2] http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:building > [3] http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:building%3Dapartments > > ___ > talk mailing list > talk@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk > ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Problem with usage of other values than yes for key building
Well I for one see hardly any usage of building=yes in my town Kópavogur, in fact it has a usage of only 7,25% ! No imports were made so that could explain the low value of building=yes apartments458 commercial85 construction2 garage771 garages168 house1025 industrial61 no17 office3 residential3457 roof6 school5 shed7 stable53 yes478 Þann 10.3.2015 20:48, skrifaði Simon Poole: Am 10.03.2015 um 21:35 schrieb Stefan Keller: Hi, I have a problem with the usage values other yes in key building. It seems to me that this any other usage of building=yes (for area type) is almost purely redundant. When looking at taginfo [1], building has following three top most key usages: yes 119260798 85% house 11592812 8% residential 3145218 2% ... I suspect the numbers are strongly biased due to building outline imports. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] Problem with usage of other values than yes for key building
Hi, I have a problem with the usage values other yes in key building. It seems to me that this any other usage of building=yes (for area type) is almost purely redundant. When looking at taginfo [1], building has following three top most key usages: yes 119260798 85% house 11592812 8% residential 3145218 2% ... So, other than "yes" has a frequency of 15% and less. Then, when looking at the wiki page [2] it mostly points to alternative tags, like * building=apartment => tourism=apartment * building=hotel => tourism=hotel * building=warehouse => shop=department_store (no indication to that in warehouse * building=church/cathedral => amenity=place_of_worship * building=school/hospital => amenity=school/hospital Sometimes when looking at wiki pages of building=* they even don't mention the preferred tagging, like building=apartment [3]. I tend to stipulate that any other value than yes for key building should be deprecated. Or am I missing something? Yours, S. [1] http://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/keys/building#values [2] http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:building [3] http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:building%3Dapartments ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
