Re: [OSM-talk] Vote cheating?

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

2018-03-16 13:05 GMT+01:00 john whelan :

> > You probably have to check the logfiles. Not sure if you can do this
> from within the wiki.
>
> Maarten
>
> I'm unable to think of a way to verify this.  The IP address might help
> but many people sometimes share the same IP address.
>


while you can not prove it, you can see abnormalities which are strong
indices. Usually, in a wiki voting there is the same bunch of people (more
or less, say from the same "pool", but with varying composition depending
on the topic), almost all editors with lots of other contributions. If now
suddenly a lot of never heard of people create accounts for the wiki and
their first (and often only) action is voting for a disputed proposal, then
something smells. Even if those were real people, not involved in OSM in
any way, but motivated by someone to register and vote in a certain way, it
wouldn't change anything IMHO, still invalid votes (not to prove formally,
maybe, but could be decided by community consensus).

Cheers,
Martin
___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] Vote cheating?

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

2018-03-16 12:52 GMT+01:00 Rory McCann :

> Well, there are some (incl. me) who think the wiki tag voting isn't
> mandatory, and you can just use the regular ad hoc rules for making a tag.
>
> In which case, "cheating" in wiki voting is irrelevant and unimportant. 



I would also see the voting part of wiki proposals much less important than
the fact someone writes a proposal (documentation) and integrates the
comments from others. Usually a tag voting should pass unless there are too
few people interested in it or there is really a big problem with the
proposal ;-)

If someone stages sock puppets and you notice it, you can still mark the
voting a dubious (I am aware of one proposal, the motorbike friendly, which
was contested).

Finally, most important voting is with your feet (using the tag for
mapping).

Cheers,
Martin
___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] Vote cheating?

[James]

IPs can also be spoofed via proxys.

On Fri, Mar 16, 2018, 8:09 AM john whelan,  wrote:

> > You probably have to check the logfiles. Not sure if you can do this
> from within the wiki.
>
> Maarten
>
> I'm unable to think of a way to verify this.  The IP address might help
> but many people sometimes share the same IP address.
>
> Cheerio John
>
> On 16 March 2018 at 07:42, Maarten Deen  wrote:
>
>> You probably have to check the logfiles. Not sure if you can do this from
>> within the wiki.
>>
>> Maarten
>>
>>
>> On 2018-03-16 12:38, john whelan wrote:
>>
>>> But how would you check this?
>>>
>>> Thanks John
>>>
>>> On 16 March 2018 at 07:31, Maarten Deen  wrote:
>>>
>>> That is a different matter. This is about the possibility that on
 person makes multiple wiki accunts and use those to vote (thereby
 cheating the vote).

 I think it would be a good thing to check this.

 Maarten

 On 2018-03-16 12:18, James wrote:
 You could also argue the opposite way: Not everyone in OSM edits
 the
 wiki, thus probably doesnt have an account, thus to participate,
 they
 need to create an account to vote

 On Fri, Mar 16, 2018, 7:16 AM Selfish Seahorse,
  wrote:

 Hi everyone

 I've remarked that there are wiki accounts that were only used to
 participate in one proposed feature vote (or in multiple votes by
 the
 same user). How can we be sure that these are different users and
 not
 multiple wiki accounts of the same user for cheating in a vote?

 ___
 talk mailing list
 talk@openstreetmap.org
 https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk [1]
 ___
 talk mailing list
 talk@openstreetmap.org
 https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk [1]

>>>
>>> ___
>>> talk mailing list
>>> talk@openstreetmap.org
>>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk [1]
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Links:
>>> --
>>> [1] https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
>>>
>>
>> ___
>> talk mailing list
>> talk@openstreetmap.org
>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
>>
>
> ___
> talk mailing list
> talk@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
>
___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] Vote cheating?

[john whelan]

> You probably have to check the logfiles. Not sure if you can do this from
within the wiki.

Maarten

I'm unable to think of a way to verify this.  The IP address might help but
many people sometimes share the same IP address.

Cheerio John

On 16 March 2018 at 07:42, Maarten Deen  wrote:

> You probably have to check the logfiles. Not sure if you can do this from
> within the wiki.
>
> Maarten
>
>
> On 2018-03-16 12:38, john whelan wrote:
>
>> But how would you check this?
>>
>> Thanks John
>>
>> On 16 March 2018 at 07:31, Maarten Deen  wrote:
>>
>> That is a different matter. This is about the possibility that on
>>> person makes multiple wiki accunts and use those to vote (thereby
>>> cheating the vote).
>>>
>>> I think it would be a good thing to check this.
>>>
>>> Maarten
>>>
>>> On 2018-03-16 12:18, James wrote:
>>> You could also argue the opposite way: Not everyone in OSM edits
>>> the
>>> wiki, thus probably doesnt have an account, thus to participate,
>>> they
>>> need to create an account to vote
>>>
>>> On Fri, Mar 16, 2018, 7:16 AM Selfish Seahorse,
>>>  wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi everyone
>>>
>>> I've remarked that there are wiki accounts that were only used to
>>> participate in one proposed feature vote (or in multiple votes by
>>> the
>>> same user). How can we be sure that these are different users and
>>> not
>>> multiple wiki accounts of the same user for cheating in a vote?
>>>
>>> ___
>>> talk mailing list
>>> talk@openstreetmap.org
>>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk [1]
>>> ___
>>> talk mailing list
>>> talk@openstreetmap.org
>>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk [1]
>>>
>>
>> ___
>> talk mailing list
>> talk@openstreetmap.org
>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk [1]
>>
>>
>>
>> Links:
>> --
>> [1] https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
>>
>
> ___
> talk mailing list
> talk@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
>
___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] Vote cheating?

[Rory McCann]

Well, there are some (incl. me) who think the wiki tag voting isn't
mandatory, and you can just use the regular ad hoc rules for making a tag.

In which case, "cheating" in wiki voting is irrelevant and unimportant. 

On 16/03/18 12:10, Selfish Seahorse wrote:

Hi everyone

I've remarked that there are wiki accounts that were only used to
participate in one proposed feature vote (or in multiple votes by the
same user). How can we be sure that these are different users and not
multiple wiki accounts of the same user for cheating in a vote?

___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk





___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] Vote cheating?

[Maarten Deen]

You probably have to check the logfiles. Not sure if you can do this 
from within the wiki.


Maarten

On 2018-03-16 12:38, john whelan wrote:

But how would you check this?

Thanks John

On 16 March 2018 at 07:31, Maarten Deen  wrote:


That is a different matter. This is about the possibility that on
person makes multiple wiki accunts and use those to vote (thereby
cheating the vote).

I think it would be a good thing to check this.

Maarten

On 2018-03-16 12:18, James wrote:
You could also argue the opposite way: Not everyone in OSM edits
the
wiki, thus probably doesnt have an account, thus to participate,
they
need to create an account to vote

On Fri, Mar 16, 2018, 7:16 AM Selfish Seahorse,
 wrote:

Hi everyone

I've remarked that there are wiki accounts that were only used to
participate in one proposed feature vote (or in multiple votes by
the
same user). How can we be sure that these are different users and
not
multiple wiki accounts of the same user for cheating in a vote?

___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk [1]
___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk [1]


___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk [1]



Links:
--
[1] https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk


___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] Vote cheating?

[john whelan]

But how would you check this?

Thanks John

On 16 March 2018 at 07:31, Maarten Deen  wrote:

> That is a different matter. This is about the possibility that on person
> makes multiple wiki accunts and use those to vote (thereby cheating the
> vote).
>
> I think it would be a good thing to check this.
>
> Maarten
>
>
> On 2018-03-16 12:18, James wrote:
>
>> You could also argue the opposite way: Not everyone in OSM edits the
>> wiki, thus probably doesnt have an account, thus to participate, they
>> need to create an account to vote
>>
>> On Fri, Mar 16, 2018, 7:16 AM Selfish Seahorse,
>>  wrote:
>>
>> Hi everyone
>>>
>>> I've remarked that there are wiki accounts that were only used to
>>> participate in one proposed feature vote (or in multiple votes by
>>> the
>>> same user). How can we be sure that these are different users and
>>> not
>>> multiple wiki accounts of the same user for cheating in a vote?
>>>
>>> ___
>>> talk mailing list
>>> talk@openstreetmap.org
>>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
>>>
>> ___
>> talk mailing list
>> talk@openstreetmap.org
>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
>>
>
> ___
> talk mailing list
> talk@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
>
___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] Vote cheating?

[Maarten Deen]

That is a different matter. This is about the possibility that on person 
makes multiple wiki accunts and use those to vote (thereby cheating the 
vote).


I think it would be a good thing to check this.

Maarten

On 2018-03-16 12:18, James wrote:

You could also argue the opposite way: Not everyone in OSM edits the
wiki, thus probably doesnt have an account, thus to participate, they
need to create an account to vote

On Fri, Mar 16, 2018, 7:16 AM Selfish Seahorse,
 wrote:


Hi everyone

I've remarked that there are wiki accounts that were only used to
participate in one proposed feature vote (or in multiple votes by
the
same user). How can we be sure that these are different users and
not
multiple wiki accounts of the same user for cheating in a vote?

___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk


___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] Vote cheating?

[James]

You could also argue the opposite way: Not everyone in OSM edits the wiki,
thus probably doesnt have an account, thus to participate, they need to
create an account to vote

On Fri, Mar 16, 2018, 7:16 AM Selfish Seahorse, 
wrote:

> Hi everyone
>
> I've remarked that there are wiki accounts that were only used to
> participate in one proposed feature vote (or in multiple votes by the
> same user). How can we be sure that these are different users and not
> multiple wiki accounts of the same user for cheating in a vote?
>
> ___
> talk mailing list
> talk@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
>
___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

[OSM-talk] Vote cheating?

[Selfish Seahorse]

Hi everyone

I've remarked that there are wiki accounts that were only used to
participate in one proposed feature vote (or in multiple votes by the
same user). How can we be sure that these are different users and not
multiple wiki accounts of the same user for cheating in a vote?

___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk