Re: [OSM-talk] Voting for place=isolated_dwelling is open
On Thu, May 6, 2010 at 10:24 AM, Simon Biber wrote: > Note that when the Wikipedia article was first created, the lowest-level > settlement was called "Lone Farmhouse". It was changed to "Isolated dwelling" > on 14 September, 2006. > > See the comparison of the contents before and after the change that > introduced the term "Isolated dwelling" here: > > http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Human_settlement&diff=75679894&oldid=74320556 You looked back further than I did. I do love the use of a Year 7 text book as a source, though... Steve ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Voting for place=isolated_dwelling is open
From: Steve Bennett > Cool, did you notice the first link: > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Settlement_hierarchy > > That kind of settles it, really. Note that when the Wikipedia article was first created, the lowest-level settlement was called "Lone Farmhouse". It was changed to "Isolated dwelling" on 14 September, 2006. See the comparison of the contents before and after the change that introduced the term "Isolated dwelling" here: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Human_settlement&diff=75679894&oldid=74320556 Simon. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Voting for place=isolated_dwelling is open
On Thu, May 6, 2010 at 12:56 AM, M∡rtin Koppenhoefer wrote: > 2010/5/5 Steve Bennett : >> Sub-hamlet? > > http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=subhamlet&meta=&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai= > 9,600 hits > > http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=%22isolated+dwelling%22&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai= > 39,900 hits Cool, did you notice the first link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Settlement_hierarchy That kind of settles it, really. Steve ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Voting for place=isolated_dwelling is open
2010/5/5 John F. Eldredge : > Since the English language defines a dwelling as a place where someone > dwells, I suspect that the UK government is using the term to mean structures > used as residences. The proposed tag, on the other hand, would classify any > isolated building as an isolated_dwelling, even if it isn't a dwelling. no, it wouldn't. An uninhabited place isn't a settlement either. The proposal says: smallest form of settlement. cheers, Martin ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Voting for place=isolated_dwelling is open
2010/5/5 John F. Eldredge : > In English usage, a dwelling is a residence. So, a farmhouse would be an > isolated dwelling; a building not used as a residence, such as a restaurant > or train station, would be an isolated building, but not an isolated dwelling. sorry, I wasn't clear, I intended an inhabited trainstation or a tavern / roadhouse, not a restaurant. The same for the mill, which was suggesting someone living there rather than focussing on the milling process. cheers, Martin ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Voting for place=isolated_dwelling is open
Since the English language defines a dwelling as a place where someone dwells, I suspect that the UK government is using the term to mean structures used as residences. The proposed tag, on the other hand, would classify any isolated building as an isolated_dwelling, even if it isn't a dwelling. -- John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com "Reserve your right to think, for even to think wrongly is better than not to think at all." -- Hypatia of Alexandria -Original Message- From: M∡rtin Koppenhoefer Date: Wed, 5 May 2010 16:59:57 To: osm Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Voting for place=isolated_dwelling is open 2010/5/5 M∡rtin Koppenhoefer : - Zitierten Text anzeigen - > 2010/5/5 Steve Bennett : >> Sub-hamlet? > > http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=subhamlet&meta=&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai= > 9,600 hits > > http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=%22isolated+dwelling%22&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai= > 39,900 hits btw, the UK government seems to use this term as well: http://www.dcsf.gov.uk/schoolorg/faqs.cfm?id=114 __ "Rural Schools ... What does Edubase record as the rural/urban classifications? Q : What does Edubase record as the rural/urban classifications? Edubase (www.edubase.gov.uk) records the rural/urban classifications as follows: The two Urban values are: · Urban > 10k - sparse ·Urban > 10k - less sparse The six other values are classified as Rural: ·Town and Fringe - sparse ·Village - sparse ·Hamlet and Isolated Dwelling - sparse ·Town and Fringe - less sparse ·Village - less sparse ·Hamlet and Isolated Dwelling - less sparse" __ cheers, Martin ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Voting for place=isolated_dwelling is open
In English usage, a dwelling is a residence. So, a farmhouse would be an isolated dwelling; a building not used as a residence, such as a restaurant or train station, would be an isolated building, but not an isolated dwelling. -- John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com "Reserve your right to think, for even to think wrongly is better than not to think at all." -- Hypatia of Alexandria -Original Message- From: Steve Bennett Date: Wed, 5 May 2010 19:13:32 To: Cc: osm Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Voting for place=isolated_dwelling is open On Wed, May 5, 2010 at 2:39 PM, M∡rtin Koppenhoefer > I agree to this, but the name "isolated_dwelling" was the translation > I finally found (neither in wikipedia nor in the dictionary) for the > German scientific term "Einzelsiedlung", which describes the smallest > entity of human settlements (below hamlets). I discourage the use of > farm as this is about usage and not about the size. Examples for > place=isolated_dwelling that are not farms are mills, forester's > houses, small isolated trainstations, restaurants or "houses". Of > course most isolated dwellings (at least in Germany) are indeed farms. Sub-hamlet? Steve ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Voting for place=isolated_dwelling is open
2010/5/5 M∡rtin Koppenhoefer : - Zitierten Text anzeigen - > 2010/5/5 Steve Bennett : >> Sub-hamlet? > > http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=subhamlet&meta=&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai= > 9,600 hits > > http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=%22isolated+dwelling%22&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai= > 39,900 hits btw, the UK government seems to use this term as well: http://www.dcsf.gov.uk/schoolorg/faqs.cfm?id=114 __ "Rural Schools ... What does Edubase record as the rural/urban classifications? Q : What does Edubase record as the rural/urban classifications? Edubase (www.edubase.gov.uk) records the rural/urban classifications as follows: The two Urban values are: · Urban > 10k - sparse ·Urban > 10k - less sparse The six other values are classified as Rural: ·Town and Fringe - sparse ·Village - sparse ·Hamlet and Isolated Dwelling - sparse ·Town and Fringe - less sparse ·Village - less sparse ·Hamlet and Isolated Dwelling - less sparse" __ cheers, Martin ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Voting for place=isolated_dwelling is open
2010/5/5 Steve Bennett : > Sub-hamlet? http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=subhamlet&meta=&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai= 9,600 hits http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=%22isolated+dwelling%22&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai= 39,900 hits cheers, Martin ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Voting for place=isolated_dwelling is open
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 I think "isolated_dwelling" fits the German understanding of the "Einzelsiedlung" better, then trying to adapt the very english term "hamlet" for this. greetings clara Steve Bennett wrote: > On Wed, May 5, 2010 at 2:39 PM, M∡rtin Koppenhoefer > I agree to this, > but the name "isolated_dwelling" was the translation >> I finally found (neither in wikipedia nor in the dictionary) for the >> German scientific term "Einzelsiedlung", which describes the smallest >> entity of human settlements (below hamlets). I discourage the use of >> farm as this is about usage and not about the size. Examples for >> place=isolated_dwelling that are not farms are mills, forester's >> houses, small isolated trainstations, restaurants or "houses". Of >> course most isolated dwellings (at least in Germany) are indeed farms. > > Sub-hamlet? > > Steve > > ___ > talk mailing list > talk@openstreetmap.org > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkvhTpIACgkQFG+ybKbbdMBcNwCg4rpp6tMjEaTonuKatjdrzoy/ g9kAoKWCCFw1oSsXgQzJZ2jnVg33FW/c =IeYQ -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Voting for place=isolated_dwelling is open
On Wed, May 5, 2010 at 2:39 PM, M∡rtin Koppenhoefer > I agree to this, but the name "isolated_dwelling" was the translation > I finally found (neither in wikipedia nor in the dictionary) for the > German scientific term "Einzelsiedlung", which describes the smallest > entity of human settlements (below hamlets). I discourage the use of > farm as this is about usage and not about the size. Examples for > place=isolated_dwelling that are not farms are mills, forester's > houses, small isolated trainstations, restaurants or "houses". Of > course most isolated dwellings (at least in Germany) are indeed farms. Sub-hamlet? Steve ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Voting for place=isolated_dwelling is open
2010/5/4 John Smith : > Towns and hamlets are usually incorporated in one form or another, > isolated buildings aren't, in any case you can tell how isolated a > building is by comparing features around it, you don't need to > explicitly say it's isolated. I agree to this, but the name "isolated_dwelling" was the translation I finally found (neither in wikipedia nor in the dictionary) for the German scientific term "Einzelsiedlung", which describes the smallest entity of human settlements (below hamlets). I discourage the use of farm as this is about usage and not about the size. Examples for place=isolated_dwelling that are not farms are mills, forester's houses, small isolated trainstations, restaurants or "houses". Of course most isolated dwellings (at least in Germany) are indeed farms. cheers, Martin ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Voting for place=isolated_dwelling is open
On 4 May 2010 13:52, Steve Bennett wrote: > No. Houses don't generally have names, they have numbers. This Rural properties in Australia, even those close to towns, often have names... Even if the rural renumbering scheme has also given these places numbers... Houses located within towns usually don't have names, although some do. > effectively they're a town by themselves. Only they're too small to be > towns, or even hamlets. Hence, "isolated dwellings". Towns and hamlets are usually incorporated in one form or another, isolated buildings aren't, in any case you can tell how isolated a building is by comparing features around it, you don't need to explicitly say it's isolated. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Voting for place=isolated_dwelling is open
On Fri, Apr 30, 2010 at 6:58 AM, Dave F. wrote: > Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: >> please vote: >> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/isolated_dwelling >> > > Err... Aren't those called houses? No. Houses don't generally have names, they have numbers. This proposal is about houses that are so isolated that they don't have street numbers, and they're not even associated with a town. So effectively they're a town by themselves. Only they're too small to be towns, or even hamlets. Hence, "isolated dwellings". HTH. Steve ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Voting for place=isolated_dwelling is open
2010/5/3 Dave F. : > Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: > Well, OK, but you did use the term 'households' > > Why not use the standard landuse=residential? Because this is about place and not about landuse. I understand place as a tag for human settlements which vary from very small (isolated dwellings) to hamlets, towns, cities and IMHO also metropolis. cheers, Martin ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Voting for place=isolated_dwelling is open
Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: > yes, it could be houses. It could also be a cave or a tent, but mostly > it will be houses. This is a term for settlement classification, not > about building types. > Well, OK, but you did use the term 'households' Why not use the standard landuse=residential? That's what I've used with just a few properties out on their own. Is your name Martin? If so (or even if not), do you *really* have to use that spell checker aggravating graphic? Ta Dave F. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Voting for place=isolated_dwelling is open
2010/4/29 Dave F. : > Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: >> please vote: >> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/isolated_dwelling >> > > Err... Aren't those called houses? yes, it could be houses. It could also be a cave or a tent, but mostly it will be houses. This is a term for settlement classification, not about building types. cheers, Martin ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Voting for place=isolated_dwelling is open
Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: > please vote: > http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/isolated_dwelling > Err... Aren't those called houses? ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] Voting for place=isolated_dwelling is open
please vote: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/isolated_dwelling cheers, Martin ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
