Re: [OSM-talk] What can we offer local government?

2017-03-15 Thread James 
Baby steps First you get people using OSM as background maps(instead of
google), then maybe people will start to see  that you can do a lot more
with OSM data than just a background map.

On Wed, Mar 15, 2017 at 9:41 AM, joost schouppe 
wrote:

> On the one hand, I find the use of OSM as a background map a slightly
> boring use-case. I'd like to see gov use actual data.
>
> On the other hand, it can actually be controversial within organisations.
> Because people will complain to the local government if they notice
> mistakes in the background map. So then government employees have to
> explain that that's not their job to fix, or maybe even actually fix things
> in OSM themselves.
> And you might also have a basemap built within the government services,
> which of course the data managers want to see used, if only to be able to
> get the public to point out mistakes.
>
> 2017-03-15 13:52 GMT+01:00 john whelan :
>
>> Nice one James.
>>
>> Thanks John
>>
>> On 15 March 2017 at 08:38, James  wrote:
>>
>>> The city of Ottawa already uses OSM in their opendata portal:
>>> http://data.ottawa.ca/dataset/sledding-hills
>>> http://data.ottawa.ca/dataset/neighbourhood-names
>>> http://data.ottawa.ca/dataset/airport-runways
>>> etc etc
>>> But I doubt they know/care as their portal was built by a consultant and
>>> not them.
>>>
>>> On Wed, Mar 15, 2017 at 6:31 AM, joost schouppe <
>>> joost.schou...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
 Hi John,

 The page Clifford shared is of course an excellent resource (I started
 the article :)
 But your remarks are not very government-specific, so you probably
 won't find an answer there.



> Both locations use more than one language.  Both seemed unaware that
>> the map can be in languages other than English.  Apparently politically
>> this can be very important.
>>
>
 There's many projects working on that problem. In Belgium we have a
 famously complicated situation. Especially Brussels is interesting, where
 both French and Dutch are used in the name=* field, split by " - " and with
 language in more or less random order. We're working on mono-lingual tiles
 to help with that:
 http://tile.openstreetmap.be/#map=12/50.84366/4.39113


>
>> Using R R.org apparently we can count things in the map.  Why anyone
>> would want to do this is a mystery to me but apparently statistians make
>> money from it so it must be useful to someone. Possibly local 
>> governments?
>>
>
 There are many ways to count thing on a map :)
 Just a random example: you might want to make a classification of
 different kinds of neighborhoods (sleeper village, city center,
 agricultural area, holiday area). You can do that completely automated for
 a whole country using OSM data (if it is complete enough)


 The contact from Ottawa was aware that the city paid for the maps it
>> used on some of their web sites but wasn't sure about using OSM instead,
>> the idea of not having a contract would be difficult to get across.
>>
>>
 Well yes, and there is no such thing as a free lunch. There are limits
 to the use of OSM.org tiles. Running your own tile server is often deemed
 too complicated by local governments. For bigger websites, they will often
 look at the likes of Mapbox.


> Anyone any examples of how local government is using OSM?
>>
>
 What Clifford said :)


> I understand part of the City of Ottawa, Ottawa Hydro does use OSM on
>> its web site by the way.  Something my contact was unaware of.
>>
>>
 Typically, one branch of government has no clue what another branch is
 doing.


 --
 Joost Schouppe
 OpenStreetMap  |
 Twitter  | LinkedIn
  | Meetup
 

 ___
 talk mailing list
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>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> 外に遊びに行こう！
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Joost Schouppe
> OpenStreetMap  |
> Twitter  | LinkedIn
>  | Meetup
> 
>



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Re: [OSM-talk] What can we offer local government?

2017-03-15 Thread joost schouppe 
On the one hand, I find the use of OSM as a background map a slightly
boring use-case. I'd like to see gov use actual data.

On the other hand, it can actually be controversial within organisations.
Because people will complain to the local government if they notice
mistakes in the background map. So then government employees have to
explain that that's not their job to fix, or maybe even actually fix things
in OSM themselves.
And you might also have a basemap built within the government services,
which of course the data managers want to see used, if only to be able to
get the public to point out mistakes.

2017-03-15 13:52 GMT+01:00 john whelan :

> Nice one James.
>
> Thanks John
>
> On 15 March 2017 at 08:38, James  wrote:
>
>> The city of Ottawa already uses OSM in their opendata portal:
>> http://data.ottawa.ca/dataset/sledding-hills
>> http://data.ottawa.ca/dataset/neighbourhood-names
>> http://data.ottawa.ca/dataset/airport-runways
>> etc etc
>> But I doubt they know/care as their portal was built by a consultant and
>> not them.
>>
>> On Wed, Mar 15, 2017 at 6:31 AM, joost schouppe > > wrote:
>>
>>> Hi John,
>>>
>>> The page Clifford shared is of course an excellent resource (I started
>>> the article :)
>>> But your remarks are not very government-specific, so you probably won't
>>> find an answer there.
>>>
>>>
>>>
 Both locations use more than one language.  Both seemed unaware that
> the map can be in languages other than English.  Apparently politically
> this can be very important.
>

>>> There's many projects working on that problem. In Belgium we have a
>>> famously complicated situation. Especially Brussels is interesting, where
>>> both French and Dutch are used in the name=* field, split by " - " and with
>>> language in more or less random order. We're working on mono-lingual tiles
>>> to help with that:
>>> http://tile.openstreetmap.be/#map=12/50.84366/4.39113
>>>
>>>

> Using R R.org apparently we can count things in the map.  Why anyone
> would want to do this is a mystery to me but apparently statistians make
> money from it so it must be useful to someone. Possibly local governments?
>

>>> There are many ways to count thing on a map :)
>>> Just a random example: you might want to make a classification of
>>> different kinds of neighborhoods (sleeper village, city center,
>>> agricultural area, holiday area). You can do that completely automated for
>>> a whole country using OSM data (if it is complete enough)
>>>
>>>
>>> The contact from Ottawa was aware that the city paid for the maps it
> used on some of their web sites but wasn't sure about using OSM instead,
> the idea of not having a contract would be difficult to get across.
>
>
>>> Well yes, and there is no such thing as a free lunch. There are limits
>>> to the use of OSM.org tiles. Running your own tile server is often deemed
>>> too complicated by local governments. For bigger websites, they will often
>>> look at the likes of Mapbox.
>>>
>>>
 Anyone any examples of how local government is using OSM?
>

>>> What Clifford said :)
>>>
>>>
 I understand part of the City of Ottawa, Ottawa Hydro does use OSM on
> its web site by the way.  Something my contact was unaware of.
>
>
>>> Typically, one branch of government has no clue what another branch is
>>> doing.
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Joost Schouppe
>>> OpenStreetMap  |
>>> Twitter  | LinkedIn
>>>  | Meetup
>>> 
>>>
>>> ___
>>> talk mailing list
>>> talk@openstreetmap.org
>>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> 外に遊びに行こう！
>>
>
>


-- 
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OpenStreetMap  |
Twitter  | LinkedIn
 | Meetup

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Re: [OSM-talk] What can we offer local government?

2017-03-15 Thread john whelan 
Nice one James.

Thanks John

On 15 March 2017 at 08:38, James  wrote:

> The city of Ottawa already uses OSM in their opendata portal:
> http://data.ottawa.ca/dataset/sledding-hills
> http://data.ottawa.ca/dataset/neighbourhood-names
> http://data.ottawa.ca/dataset/airport-runways
> etc etc
> But I doubt they know/care as their portal was built by a consultant and
> not them.
>
> On Wed, Mar 15, 2017 at 6:31 AM, joost schouppe 
> wrote:
>
>> Hi John,
>>
>> The page Clifford shared is of course an excellent resource (I started
>> the article :)
>> But your remarks are not very government-specific, so you probably won't
>> find an answer there.
>>
>>
>>
>>> Both locations use more than one language.  Both seemed unaware that the
 map can be in languages other than English.  Apparently politically this
 can be very important.

>>>
>> There's many projects working on that problem. In Belgium we have a
>> famously complicated situation. Especially Brussels is interesting, where
>> both French and Dutch are used in the name=* field, split by " - " and with
>> language in more or less random order. We're working on mono-lingual tiles
>> to help with that:
>> http://tile.openstreetmap.be/#map=12/50.84366/4.39113
>>
>>
>>>
 Using R R.org apparently we can count things in the map.  Why anyone
 would want to do this is a mystery to me but apparently statistians make
 money from it so it must be useful to someone. Possibly local governments?

>>>
>> There are many ways to count thing on a map :)
>> Just a random example: you might want to make a classification of
>> different kinds of neighborhoods (sleeper village, city center,
>> agricultural area, holiday area). You can do that completely automated for
>> a whole country using OSM data (if it is complete enough)
>>
>>
>> The contact from Ottawa was aware that the city paid for the maps it used
 on some of their web sites but wasn't sure about using OSM instead, the
 idea of not having a contract would be difficult to get across.


>> Well yes, and there is no such thing as a free lunch. There are limits to
>> the use of OSM.org tiles. Running your own tile server is often deemed too
>> complicated by local governments. For bigger websites, they will often look
>> at the likes of Mapbox.
>>
>>
>>> Anyone any examples of how local government is using OSM?

>>>
>> What Clifford said :)
>>
>>
>>> I understand part of the City of Ottawa, Ottawa Hydro does use OSM on
 its web site by the way.  Something my contact was unaware of.


>> Typically, one branch of government has no clue what another branch is
>> doing.
>>
>>
>> --
>> Joost Schouppe
>> OpenStreetMap  |
>> Twitter  | LinkedIn
>>  | Meetup
>> 
>>
>> ___
>> talk mailing list
>> talk@openstreetmap.org
>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> 外に遊びに行こう！
>
___
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Re: [OSM-talk] What can we offer local government?

2017-03-15 Thread James 
The city of Ottawa already uses OSM in their opendata portal:
http://data.ottawa.ca/dataset/sledding-hills
http://data.ottawa.ca/dataset/neighbourhood-names
http://data.ottawa.ca/dataset/airport-runways
etc etc
But I doubt they know/care as their portal was built by a consultant and
not them.

On Wed, Mar 15, 2017 at 6:31 AM, joost schouppe 
wrote:

> Hi John,
>
> The page Clifford shared is of course an excellent resource (I started the
> article :)
> But your remarks are not very government-specific, so you probably won't
> find an answer there.
>
>
>
>> Both locations use more than one language.  Both seemed unaware that the
>>> map can be in languages other than English.  Apparently politically this
>>> can be very important.
>>>
>>
> There's many projects working on that problem. In Belgium we have a
> famously complicated situation. Especially Brussels is interesting, where
> both French and Dutch are used in the name=* field, split by " - " and with
> language in more or less random order. We're working on mono-lingual tiles
> to help with that:
> http://tile.openstreetmap.be/#map=12/50.84366/4.39113
>
>
>>
>>> Using R R.org apparently we can count things in the map.  Why anyone
>>> would want to do this is a mystery to me but apparently statistians make
>>> money from it so it must be useful to someone. Possibly local governments?
>>>
>>
> There are many ways to count thing on a map :)
> Just a random example: you might want to make a classification of
> different kinds of neighborhoods (sleeper village, city center,
> agricultural area, holiday area). You can do that completely automated for
> a whole country using OSM data (if it is complete enough)
>
>
> The contact from Ottawa was aware that the city paid for the maps it used
>>> on some of their web sites but wasn't sure about using OSM instead, the
>>> idea of not having a contract would be difficult to get across.
>>>
>>>
> Well yes, and there is no such thing as a free lunch. There are limits to
> the use of OSM.org tiles. Running your own tile server is often deemed too
> complicated by local governments. For bigger websites, they will often look
> at the likes of Mapbox.
>
>
>> Anyone any examples of how local government is using OSM?
>>>
>>
> What Clifford said :)
>
>
>> I understand part of the City of Ottawa, Ottawa Hydro does use OSM on its
>>> web site by the way.  Something my contact was unaware of.
>>>
>>>
> Typically, one branch of government has no clue what another branch is
> doing.
>
>
> --
> Joost Schouppe
> OpenStreetMap  |
> Twitter  | LinkedIn
>  | Meetup
> 
>
> ___
> talk mailing list
> talk@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
>
>


-- 
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Re: [OSM-talk] What can we offer local government?

2017-03-15 Thread joost schouppe 
Hi John,

The page Clifford shared is of course an excellent resource (I started the
article :)
But your remarks are not very government-specific, so you probably won't
find an answer there.



> Both locations use more than one language.  Both seemed unaware that the
>> map can be in languages other than English.  Apparently politically this
>> can be very important.
>>
>
There's many projects working on that problem. In Belgium we have a
famously complicated situation. Especially Brussels is interesting, where
both French and Dutch are used in the name=* field, split by " - " and with
language in more or less random order. We're working on mono-lingual tiles
to help with that:
http://tile.openstreetmap.be/#map=12/50.84366/4.39113


>
>> Using R R.org apparently we can count things in the map.  Why anyone
>> would want to do this is a mystery to me but apparently statistians make
>> money from it so it must be useful to someone. Possibly local governments?
>>
>
There are many ways to count thing on a map :)
Just a random example: you might want to make a classification of different
kinds of neighborhoods (sleeper village, city center, agricultural area,
holiday area). You can do that completely automated for a whole country
using OSM data (if it is complete enough)


The contact from Ottawa was aware that the city paid for the maps it used
>> on some of their web sites but wasn't sure about using OSM instead, the
>> idea of not having a contract would be difficult to get across.
>>
>>
Well yes, and there is no such thing as a free lunch. There are limits to
the use of OSM.org tiles. Running your own tile server is often deemed too
complicated by local governments. For bigger websites, they will often look
at the likes of Mapbox.


> Anyone any examples of how local government is using OSM?
>>
>
What Clifford said :)


> I understand part of the City of Ottawa, Ottawa Hydro does use OSM on its
>> web site by the way.  Something my contact was unaware of.
>>
>>
Typically, one branch of government has no clue what another branch is
doing.


-- 
Joost Schouppe
OpenStreetMap  |
Twitter  | LinkedIn
 | Meetup

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Re: [OSM-talk] What can we offer local government?

2017-03-14 Thread Clifford Snow 
This is a new wiki page,
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/OpenStreetMap_for_Government, for
governments that use OSM. Please feel free to update the page to include
Ottawa Hydro.

Best,
Clifford

On Tue, Mar 14, 2017 at 2:02 PM, john whelan  wrote:

> Do we have a wiki entry on this subject?
>
> It has come up a couple of times.  Locally this morning talking to the guy
> who supplies us with Ottawa bus stops under an approved open data licence.
> It only took five years from start to finish to get it approved on both
> sides. It has also come up in Lusaka Zambia.
>
> Both locations use more than one language.  Both seemed unaware that the
> map can be in languages other than English.  Apparently politically this
> can be very important.
>
> Using R R.org apparently we can count things in the map.  Why anyone would
> want to do this is a mystery to me but apparently statistians make money
> from it so it must be useful to someone. Possibly local governments?
>
> The contact from Ottawa was aware that the city paid for the maps it used
> on some of their web sites but wasn't sure about using OSM instead, the
> idea of not having a contract would be difficult to get across.
>
> Anyone any examples of how local government is using OSM?  I understand
> part of the City of Ottawa, Ottawa Hydro does use OSM on its web site by
> the way.  Something my contact was unaware of.
>
> Thanks John
>
> ___
> talk mailing list
> talk@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
>
>


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[OSM-talk] What can we offer local government?

2017-03-14 Thread john whelan 
Do we have a wiki entry on this subject?

It has come up a couple of times.  Locally this morning talking to the guy
who supplies us with Ottawa bus stops under an approved open data licence.
It only took five years from start to finish to get it approved on both
sides. It has also come up in Lusaka Zambia.

Both locations use more than one language.  Both seemed unaware that the
map can be in languages other than English.  Apparently politically this
can be very important.

Using R R.org apparently we can count things in the map.  Why anyone would
want to do this is a mystery to me but apparently statistians make money
from it so it must be useful to someone. Possibly local governments?

The contact from Ottawa was aware that the city paid for the maps it used
on some of their web sites but wasn't sure about using OSM instead, the
idea of not having a contract would be difficult to get across.

Anyone any examples of how local government is using OSM?  I understand
part of the City of Ottawa, Ottawa Hydro does use OSM on its web site by
the way.  Something my contact was unaware of.

Thanks John
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