Re: [OSM-talk] Wiki page for big data contributors needs updating
On Tue, Mar 10, 2009 at 10:44 PM, Mike Collinson m...@ayeltd.biz wrote: It would also help if you could fill in the contact column with a contact either from organisation or from the OSM community knowledgeable about the import. Any information in the license column would also help. I'm the main guilty for all the italian mass imports, those already done and those still to come (authorized, but yet to be imported in to the database). The problem I see is that I asked the various administrations for derivation rights under CC-BY-SA licence. Clearly I do not want to go back and ask them again for agreement under a new licence. Whose data are they anyway? Mine, since I uploaded them in OSM, or theirs because otherwise I would not have had data tu build upon? The fact that I converted them from a different coordinates Datum and did choose which OSM tags to be applied, gives me some rights to choose? who has to choose if I will need to dump those mass imports? Even if this horrifies me, I think I will be ulimately forced not to switch to the new licence in order to fulfill the authotization I was granted by the local governments. Thus dumping all of the OSM work I have ever done. -S ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Wiki page for big data contributors needs updating
Hi, Simone Cortesi wrote: The problem I see is that I asked the various administrations for derivation rights under CC-BY-SA licence. Clearly I do not want to go back and ask them again for agreement under a new licence. If the authorisation they have given you is reasonably wide-ranging (as in your data is public anyway, feel free to import) then by all means leave it in. If it has been given to you under CC-BY-SA and you cannot be bothered to talk to them, then compile a list of people that have to be contacted and ask someone else from the Italian community to take over. If they say no, or cannot be contacted, then the data has to be removed. I think that if your contribution was significant, e.g. the conversion work was non-trivial and a kind of creative act, then you have a say - this means you could say no I will not relicense even if the original government source says fine with me, but not the other way round (you cannot say sure I'll relicense when they say no...) BTW has anyone talked to the TIGER import people yet? Someone recently argued on the lists that the TIGER import was quite complex with all that un-braiding and so on, and that the TIGER data in our database could not be considered PD because the import process was a creative work in its own right. If this is true, then that would mean that those who did the import could now just say no and we'd then lose TIGER and everything that was since built on the import. I'd hazard the guess that this makes those who did the TIGER import some of the most powerful people in OSM at the moment ;) Bye Frederik -- Frederik Ramm ## eMail frede...@remote.org ## N49°00'09 E008°23'33 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Wiki page for big data contributors needs updating
Simone, The ODbL is still a BY-SA license but written with databases rather than creative works in mind (ODC-BY-SA). So my opinion is that Frederik's advice is the right one, it depends on how narrow or wide-ranging the original authority was. At the moment, we are simply trying to methodically establish where issues might exist. There is no need to make formal contact ... a license change has neither been decided nor made. As for later, would a simple courtesy notification email or letter work? For your information, OSM is migrating to a new license under broadly the same terms [*] but with greater clarity. The text of the license can be seen at x, if you have any concerns with us continuing to use your data, please contact me at . Mike License Working Group [*] I realise that at a fine-grained level that is currently a matter of debate! At 10:52 AM 14/03/2009, Frederik Ramm wrote: Hi, Simone Cortesi wrote: The problem I see is that I asked the various administrations for derivation rights under CC-BY-SA licence. Clearly I do not want to go back and ask them again for agreement under a new licence. If the authorisation they have given you is reasonably wide-ranging (as in your data is public anyway, feel free to import) then by all means leave it in. If it has been given to you under CC-BY-SA and you cannot be bothered to talk to them, then compile a list of people that have to be contacted and ask someone else from the Italian community to take over. If they say no, or cannot be contacted, then the data has to be removed. I think that if your contribution was significant, e.g. the conversion work was non-trivial and a kind of creative act, then you have a say - this means you could say no I will not relicense even if the original government source says fine with me, but not the other way round (you cannot say sure I'll relicense when they say no...) BTW has anyone talked to the TIGER import people yet? Someone recently argued on the lists that the TIGER import was quite complex with all that un-braiding and so on, and that the TIGER data in our database could not be considered PD because the import process was a creative work in its own right. If this is true, then that would mean that those who did the import could now just say no and we'd then lose TIGER and everything that was since built on the import. I'd hazard the guess that this makes those who did the TIGER import some of the most powerful people in OSM at the moment ;) Bye Frederik -- Frederik Ramm ## eMail frede...@remote.org ## N49°00'09 E008°23'33 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Wiki page for big data contributors needs updating
Simone Cortesi schrieb: Whose data are they anyway? Mine, since I uploaded them in OSM, or theirs because otherwise I would not have had data tu build upon? Mainly the governments', but probably also yours because you did a lot more than just uploading a .osm file. Even if this horrifies me, I think I will be ulimately forced not to switch to the new licence in order to fulfill the authotization I was granted by the local governments. Thus dumping all of the OSM work I have ever done. You're certainly not the only one. This is already listed as an open issue at http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Open_Data_License/Open_Issues#Relicensing_content_derived_from_CC-BY-SA_works ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Wiki page for big data contributors needs updating
Mike Collinson schrieb: Simone, The ODbL is still a BY-SA license but written with databases rather than creative works in mind (ODC-BY-SA). So my opinion is that Frederik's advice is the right one, it depends on how narrow or wide-ranging the original authority was. At the moment, we are simply trying to methodically establish where issues might exist. I really like to see that this is done and especially that you let the people know that are not on the legal-talk list :-) There is no need to make formal contact ... a license change has neither been decided nor made. Right. That's the main reason why I didn't already contacted the Frida data owners about the license change. We currently just don't know when and how the license will change. That's also the reason why I'm a bit skeptical about the original proposed time table for the license change, especially for the mappers. For some it's not a simple yes/no decision, but like me they'll have to ask others - and that just may take a while ;-) Regards, ULFL ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Wiki page for big data contributors needs updating
At 12:27 PM 14/03/2009, Ulf Lamping wrote: Mike Collinson schrieb: Simone, The ODbL is still a BY-SA license but written with databases rather than creative works in mind (ODC-BY-SA). So my opinion is that Frederik's advice is the right one, it depends on how narrow or wide-ranging the original authority was. At the moment, we are simply trying to methodically establish where issues might exist. I really like to see that this is done and especially that you let the people know that are not on the legal-talk list :-) There is no need to make formal contact ... a license change has neither been decided nor made. Right. That's the main reason why I didn't already contacted the Frida data owners about the license change. We currently just don't know when and how the license will change. That's also the reason why I'm a bit skeptical about the original proposed time table for the license change, especially for the mappers. For some it's not a simple yes/no decision, but like me they'll have to ask others - and that just may take a while ;-) Yes, we are hearing this one loud and clear. Our original draft timetable was based on two main factors. One was for OSM to be able to get as much input into the general ODbL license (which will be available for anyone to use not just us) before Open Data Commons releases a 1.0 version. That one still stands, March 20th for end of comments and March 28th for release. But that does not mean we have to adopt it in any particular timeframe. The other was concern that OSM is at the point where new user registration is hitting the stratosphere - approx. 15,000 already this year [1]. So from that perspective, the sooner the better. Not easy! Mike [1] http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Stats#Database_Statistics_-_Graphical ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] Wiki page for big data contributors needs updating
The License Working Group is continuing to work through all the major contributions of data to pinpoint any issues involved with a potential migration to the ODbL license. If you have been involved in such efforts, it would be a great help to us is you would take a moment to check whether it is listed at http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Import/Cataloguehttp://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Import/Catalogue It would also help if you could fill in the contact column with a contact either from organisation or from the OSM community knowledgeable about the import. Any information in the license column would also help. Alternatively, do feel free to email me directly. Thanks! Mike Collinson OSMF License Working Group ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
