Re: [OSM-talk] Will OSM tiles be CC-0 soon?
2011/10/26 Serge Wroclawski emac...@gmail.com: Okay, but what's not clear to me is if there's a requirement or not for attribution. Isn't it quite clear from this, that there is a requirement? You must include a notice associated with the Produced Work [...] to make any Person that [...views...] the Produced Work aware that Content was obtained from the [...Database...], and that it is available under this License. cheers, Martin ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Will OSM tiles be CC-0 soon?
I agree with Frederik that this nuanced look at the license requirements belongs on the legal discussion list at this point. - Serge ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] Will OSM tiles be CC-0 soon?
Hi I want to talk about the tiles, since they have always been a very important part of these project, ever since we got white-lines-on-landsat[1]. When we are ODBL pure, the tiles produced by OSMF servers can have any license with attribution. Will they continue to be CC-by-SA or do people think that the tiles license should change too? [1] http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Stockholm-Openstreetmap.png -- /emj ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Will OSM tiles be CC-0 soon?
On 26 October 2011 11:19, Erik Johansson erjo...@gmail.com wrote: Hi I want to talk about the tiles, since they have always been a very important part of these project, ever since we got white-lines-on-landsat[1]. When we are ODBL pure, the tiles produced by OSMF servers can have any license with attribution. Will they continue to be CC-by-SA or do people think that the tiles license should change too? No absolute decision has been made, but seems most practical to remain CC-by-SA. There has been previous discussion on the lists. (ca ~ 1 year ago) Regards Grant [1] http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Stockholm-Openstreetmap.png -- /emj ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Will OSM tiles be CC-0 soon?
On 26 October 2011 11:19, Erik Johansson erjo...@gmail.com wrote: [1] http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Stockholm-Openstreetmap.png Sorry to be off topic, but I just went to have a look to see how far Stockholm has progressed. http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=59.3165lon=18.0662zoom=14layers=M Wow! -- Philip Stubbs ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Will OSM tiles be CC-0 soon?
On Wed, Oct 26, 2011 at 11:54 AM, Grant Slater openstreet...@firefishy.comwrote: On 26 October 2011 11:19, Erik Johansson erjo...@gmail.com wrote: Hi I want to talk about the tiles, since they have always been a very important part of these project, ever since we got white-lines-on-landsat[1]. When we are ODBL pure, the tiles produced by OSMF servers can have any license with attribution. Will they continue to be CC-by-SA or do people think that the tiles license should change too? No absolute decision has been made, but seems most practical to remain CC-by-SA. Why wouldn't OSM publish their tiles under the most liberal license they are able to? 80n ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Will OSM tiles be CC-0 soon?
2011/10/26 80n 80n...@gmail.com On Wed, Oct 26, 2011 at 11:54 AM, Grant Slater openstreet...@firefishy.com wrote: Why wouldn't OSM publish their tiles under the most liberal license they are able to? 80n Maybe the reason is that information could be extracted from them, and put into other closed maps. Janko ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Will OSM tiles be CC-0 soon?
2011/10/26 80n 80n...@gmail.com: On Wed, Oct 26, 2011 at 11:54 AM, Grant Slater openstreet...@firefishy.com wrote: No absolute decision has been made, but seems most practical to remain CC-by-SA. Why wouldn't OSM publish their tiles under the most liberal license they are able to? To get credit. A license with attribution aspects seems more suitable to augment visibility of the project and in the end also increase the number of active mappers. cheers, Martin ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Will OSM tiles be CC-0 soon?
On Wednesday 26 October 2011, Erik Johansson wrote: Hi I want to talk about the tiles, since they have always been a very important part of these project, ever since we got white-lines-on-landsat[1]. When we are ODBL pure, the tiles produced by OSMF servers can have any license with attribution. Will they continue to be CC-by-SA or do people think that the tiles license should change too? Keeping them as CC-BY-SA might give people another incentive to run their own tile server, as they would be able to get rid of the attribution text in the corner of their app. (am I right about this?) If they're using our server capacity, the least we can ask is for attribution etc. robert. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Will OSM tiles be CC-0 soon?
On Wednesday 26 October 2011, Erik Johansson wrote: the tiles produced by OSMF servers can have any license with attribution Hold on, I'm a bit confused here - CC-0 does not require attribution AFAICT. robert. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Will OSM tiles be CC-0 soon?
Robert Scott wrote: Keeping them as CC-BY-SA might give people another incentive to run their own tile server, as they would be able to get rid of the attribution text in the corner of their app. (am I right about this?) No, ODbL itself requires attribution. It is not legally possible to publish OSM tiles without attribution using an ODbL-licensed OSM database. This also means that OSM tiles will certainly *not* be CC-0. They might become CC-BY, though, and I don't see a reason why we should keep the share alike requirement for the tiles when we already have a share alike requirement for the database. Tobias ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Will OSM tiles be CC-0 soon?
On 26/10/2011 14:27, Robert Scott wrote: If they're using our server capacity, the least we can ask is for attribution etc. Whatever licence the tiles are released under, the Tile usage policy is unlikely to change: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tile_usage_policy J. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Will OSM tiles be CC-0 soon?
On Wed, Oct 26, 2011 at 15:32, Robert Scott li...@humanleg.org.uk wrote: On Wednesday 26 October 2011, Erik Johansson wrote: the tiles produced by OSMF servers can have any license with attribution Hold on, I'm a bit confused here - CC-0 does not require attribution AFAICT. Good to know, sorry for the confusion.. :-) I just assumed that CC would require attribution for all licenses. Moral rights being what they are. -- /emj ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Will OSM tiles be CC-0 soon?
Getting off-topic-ish but to clarify: CC-0 is the equivalent of public domain (zero rights reserved). My understanding is that this was introduced because many countries don't have the concept of public domain as it exists e.g. in the American legislation. CC-0 enables the creators of creative works in such countries to give up _all_ the copyrights, including the need for attribution, in a standardized, simple, contractual/licensing way. Cheers, -Jaakko --Original Message-- From: Erik Johansson To: li...@humanleg.org.uk Cc: Talk@OSM Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Will OSM tiles be CC-0 soon? Sent: Oct 26, 2011 09:51 On Wed, Oct 26, 2011 at 15:32, Robert Scott li...@humanleg.org.uk wrote: On Wednesday 26 October 2011, Erik Johansson wrote: the tiles produced by OSMF servers can have any license with attribution Hold on, I'm a bit confused here - CC-0 does not require attribution AFAICT. Good to know, sorry for the confusion.. :-) I just assumed that CC would require attribution for all licenses. Moral rights being what they are. -- /emj ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk Sent from my BlackBerry® device from Digicel -- Mobile: +509-37-26 91 54, Skype/GoogleTalk: jhelleranta ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Will OSM tiles be CC-0 soon?
On Wed, Oct 26, 2011 at 6:54 AM, Grant Slater openstreet...@firefishy.com wrote: No absolute decision has been made, but seems most practical to remain CC-by-SA. There has been previous discussion on the lists. (ca ~ 1 year ago) I realize this is not legal-talk, but since this discussion is happening here, Grant, can you explain how tiles would not be required to keep the license as a Re-utilization of the work, as per section 1.0: “Re-utilisation” – means any form of making available to the public all or a Substantial part of the Contents by the distribution of copies, by renting, by online or other forms of transmission. Tiles seem to be an extraction and Re-utilization, and are thereby covered by the license and therefore the only way the foundation could re-license them would be to go outside the license and exercise its authority under the terms of the CT. But since no third party can do that... why would OSMF? That is why would OSMF set an example of use that no third party could perform- especially when the sys-admins seem to adamant about people using third party tile servers? - Serge Regards Grant [1] http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Stockholm-Openstreetmap.png -- /emj ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Will OSM tiles be CC-0 soon?
Hi, On 10/26/11 16:17, Serge Wroclawski wrote: Tiles seem to be an extraction and Re-utilization They are a produced work and covered by section 4.3. If anyone feels the need to question that map tiles are produced works, or to argue what kind of licensing and attribution applies to produced works, they are invited to do so over at legal-talk. Bye Frederik ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Will OSM tiles be CC-0 soon?
On Wed, Oct 26, 2011 at 10:17 AM, Serge Wroclawski emac...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Oct 26, 2011 at 6:54 AM, Grant Slater openstreet...@firefishy.com wrote: No absolute decision has been made, but seems most practical to remain CC-by-SA. There has been previous discussion on the lists. (ca ~ 1 year ago) I realize this is not legal-talk, but since this discussion is happening here, Grant, can you explain how tiles would not be required to keep the license as a Re-utilization of the work, as per section 1.0: “Re-utilisation” – means any form of making available to the public all or a Substantial part of the Contents by the distribution of copies, by renting, by online or other forms of transmission. Tiles seem to be an extraction and Re-utilization, and are thereby covered by the license and therefore the only way the foundation could re-license them would be to go outside the license and exercise its authority under the terms of the CT. But since no third party can do that... why would OSMF? That is why would OSMF set an example of use that no third party could perform- especially when the sys-admins seem to adamant about people using third party tile servers? Tiles would be a [from http://opendatacommons.org/licenses/odbl/1.0/] “Produced Work” – a work (such as an image, audiovisual material, text, or sounds) resulting from using the whole or a Substantial part of the Contents (via a search or other query) from this Database, a Derivative Database, or this Database as part of a Collective Database. §4.2a requires public conveyance of the database, collective database or derivative database under ODbL. tiles (as a produced work) are covered later in §4.3 Notice for using output (Contents). Creating and Using a Produced Work does not require the notice in Section 4.2. However, if you Publicly Use a Produced Work, You must include a notice associated with the Produced Work reasonably calculated to make any Person that uses, views, accesses, interacts with, or is otherwise exposed to the Produced Work aware that Content was obtained from the Database, Derivative Database, or the Database as part of a Collective Database, and that it is available under this License. A simplified way of thinking about this is as follows. The data and database stay as ODbL; things created from the data / database that are not data / database may be licensed in other ways. Is that clearer? ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Will OSM tiles be CC-0 soon?
On Wed, Oct 26, 2011 at 11:03 AM, Richard Weait rich...@weait.com wrote: tiles (as a produced work) are covered later in §4.3 Notice for using output (Contents). Creating and Using a Produced Work does not require the notice in Section 4.2. However, if you Publicly Use a Produced Work, You must include a notice associated with the Produced Work reasonably calculated to make any Person that uses, views, accesses, interacts with, or is otherwise exposed to the Produced Work aware that Content was obtained from the Database, Derivative Database, or the Database as part of a Collective Database, and that it is available under this License. A simplified way of thinking about this is as follows. The data and database stay as ODbL; things created from the data / database that are not data / database may be licensed in other ways. Is that clearer? Okay, but what's not clear to me is if there's a requirement or not for attribution. - Serge ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Will OSM tiles be CC-0 soon?
Hi, On 10/26/2011 06:46 PM, Serge Wroclawski wrote: §4.3 Notice for using output (Contents). Creating and Using a Produced Work does not require the notice in Section 4.2. However, if you Publicly Use a Produced Work, You must include a notice associated with the Produced Work reasonably calculated to make any Person that uses, views, accesses, interacts with, or is otherwise exposed to the Produced Work aware that Content was obtained from the Database, Derivative Database, or the Database as part of a Collective Database, and that it is available under this License. A simplified way of thinking about this is as follows. The data and database stay as ODbL; things created from the data / database that are not data / database may be licensed in other ways. Is that clearer? Okay, but what's not clear to me is if there's a requirement or not for attribution. There are some finer points to this and I am prepared to discuss them should the question be raised in an appropriate forum ;) Bye Frederik -- Frederik Ramm ## eMail frede...@remote.org ## N49°00'09 E008°23'33 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
