Re: [OSM-talk] osm maps on wikipedia - discussion

[Chris Koerner]

Howdy,
I work at the Wikimedia Foundation as a Community Liaison
 for the Discovery
department . Along with
Yuri Astrakhan and Max Semenik, I've been helping to work with Wikipedians
interested in interactive maps. As you can tell, we're early in the
conversation and appreciate any feedback or ideas from your community (some
of you have already joined us on the talk page - thank you and welcome!

I saw the wiki page Richard created welcoming Wikipedians to OpenStreetMaps
and wanted to say thank you! I've included it on our conversation page

toward
the bottom, but feel free to include a link to it elsewhere in the page if
you think it makes sense.

I hope that our projects can work well together. If anyone has questions
about how we're using OSM or want to know more, please feel free to drop a
note on the talk page or reach out directly.

-- 
Yours,
Chris Koerner
Community Liaison - Discovery
Wikimedia Foundation
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Re: [OSM-talk] osm maps on wikipedia - discussion

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

sent from a phone

> Il giorno 30 apr 2016, alle ore 21:45, Frederik Ramm  ha 
> scritto:
> 
> The fact that there is an association in Italy promoting both Wikipedia
> and OSM does not make the statement "We are 100% independent" false.


I believe 99% would be more correct, as there is some intertwine between 
wikimedia and OSMF, as both are in the same budget (there is no separation 
between wikimedia Italy and osmf Italy, it's the same non-profit organization, 
the same budget, the same people). Indeed, if you want to become member of osmf 
italy you will also unavoidably become member of wikimedia (formally), how is 
this 100% independent?


cheers,
Martin 



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Re: [OSM-talk] osm maps on wikipedia - discussion

[Frederik Ramm]

Hi,

On 04/30/2016 10:41 AM, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote:
> Simone, I just wanted to point out that as of 27.1.2016, when you and
> Martijn van Exel signed the official agreement, Wikimedia Italy is the
> official local chapter of OSMF for  Italy. OSMF Italy is a subgroup of
> wikimedia Italy. No FUD.

The fact that there is an association in Italy promoting both Wikipedia
and OSM does not make the statement "We are 100% independent" false.

Bye
Frederik

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Re: [OSM-talk] osm maps on wikipedia - discussion

[Stefano]

On Apr 30, 2016 10:49, "Martin Koppenhoefer"  wrote:
>
>
>
> sent from a phone
>
> Il giorno 29 apr 2016, alle ore 17:42, Simone Cortesi 
ha scritto:
>
>> Martin, please NO FUD, you know that Wikimedia Italia is not just wmf
Italian counterpart but we do other stuff related to open knowledge and
open access and libraries.
>>
>> Our main source of income does not come from Wikimedia Foundation.
>
>
>
> Simone, I just wanted to point out that as of 27.1.2016, when you and
Martijn van Exel signed the official agreement, Wikimedia Italy is the
official local chapter of OSMF for  Italy. OSMF Italy is a subgroup of
wikimedia Italy. No FUD.
>

Martin, I know italian isn't your mother tongue, so I'll explain to you in
this way.
WMI is a chapter of both WMF and OSMF. (Focusing only on your point)
So OSM mappers are members of WMI as WP users are (only focused on a
different project).

>
http://www.wikimedia.it/wikimedia-italia-e-diventata-ufficialmente-il-secondo-chapter-locale-di-openstreetmap-foundation-e-il-primo-a-unire-wikipedia-e-osm/
>
> https://wiki.osmfoundation.org/wiki/Local_Chapters/Applications/Italy
>
> cheers,
> Martin
>
>
>
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Re: [OSM-talk] osm maps on wikipedia - discussion

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

sent from a phone

> Il giorno 29 apr 2016, alle ore 17:42, Simone Cortesi  ha 
> scritto:
> 
> Martin, please NO FUD, you know that Wikimedia Italia is not just wmf Italian 
> counterpart but we do other stuff related to open knowledge and open access 
> and libraries.
> 
> Our main source of income does not come from Wikimedia Foundation.
> 


Simone, I just wanted to point out that as of 27.1.2016, when you and Martijn 
van Exel signed the official agreement, Wikimedia Italy is the official local 
chapter of OSMF for  Italy. OSMF Italy is a subgroup of wikimedia Italy. No FUD.

http://www.wikimedia.it/wikimedia-italia-e-diventata-ufficialmente-il-secondo-chapter-locale-di-openstreetmap-foundation-e-il-primo-a-unire-wikipedia-e-osm/

https://wiki.osmfoundation.org/wiki/Local_Chapters/Applications/Italy

cheers,
Martin 


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Re: [OSM-talk] osm maps on wikipedia - discussion

[Simone Cortesi]

On Apr 29, 2016 3:59 PM, "Martin Koppenhoefer" 
wrote:
>
>
>
> sent from a phone
>
> > Il giorno 29 apr 2016, alle ore 14:46, Richard Fairhurst <
rich...@systemed.net> ha scritto:
> >
> > I've just created a quick, friendly wiki page to explain that and other
> > differences:
> >
> > http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Welcome_to_Wikipedia_users
>
>
> great page \o/
>
> As a minor remark: "OpenStreetMap is 100% independent. It is not a
Wikimedia Foundation project."
>
> We are not any more 100% independent, for example the Italian chapter (?)
of osmf is Wikimedia Italy, i.e. in Italy OSM is a wikimedia foundation
project. But of course this doesn't mean that Wikipedia editing rules are
applied to mapping.

Martin, please NO FUD, you know that Wikimedia Italia is not just wmf
Italian counterpart but we do other stuff related to open knowledge and
open access and libraries.

Our main source of income does not come from Wikimedia Foundation.
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Re: [OSM-talk] osm maps on wikipedia - discussion

[john whelan]

I agree a very nice introduction and it shows the differences.

Thanks John

On 29 April 2016 at 10:25, Clifford Snow  wrote:

>
> On Fri, Apr 29, 2016 at 5:46 AM, Richard Fairhurst 
> wrote:
>
>> I've just created a quick, friendly wiki page to explain that and other
>> differences:
>>
>> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Welcome_to_Wikipedia_users
>>
>
> Richard,
> Nice job on the Welcome page. Thanks
>
>
> --
> @osm_seattle
> osm_seattle.snowandsnow.us
> OpenStreetMap: Maps with a human touch
>
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Re: [OSM-talk] osm maps on wikipedia - discussion

[Clifford Snow]

On Fri, Apr 29, 2016 at 5:46 AM, Richard Fairhurst 
wrote:

> I've just created a quick, friendly wiki page to explain that and other
> differences:
>
> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Welcome_to_Wikipedia_users
>

Richard,
Nice job on the Welcome page. Thanks


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Re: [OSM-talk] osm maps on wikipedia - discussion

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

sent from a phone

> Il giorno 29 apr 2016, alle ore 14:46, Richard Fairhurst 
>  ha scritto:
> 
> I've just created a quick, friendly wiki page to explain that and other
> differences:
> 
> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Welcome_to_Wikipedia_users


great page \o/

As a minor remark: "OpenStreetMap is 100% independent. It is not a Wikimedia 
Foundation project."

We are not any more 100% independent, for example the Italian chapter (?) of 
osmf is Wikimedia Italy, i.e. in Italy OSM is a wikimedia foundation project. 
But of course this doesn't mean that Wikipedia editing rules are applied to 
mapping.

Cheers,
Martin 
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Re: [OSM-talk] osm maps on wikipedia - discussion

[Simone Cortesi]

Clifford,
I have really no idea, I've been recently referred to that page, but
I've not been involved with it at all.


On Thu, Apr 28, 2016 at 10:38 PM, Clifford Snow  wrote:
> Simone,
> I'm not a Wikimedia user but maybe you could clarify a question for me.
> Under the con's is the statement "in many cases OpenStreetMap's territorial
> borders are bad or outdated" Where does this opinion come from? Please
> understand that I'm not necessarily disagreeing, but it seems to be a broad
> generalization.
>
> One of the Pro arguments might be "If the map data is wrong, you can fix
> it."
>
>
> On Thu, Apr 28, 2016 at 4:19 AM, Simone Cortesi  wrote:
>>
>> Hello,
>> currently being discussed on mediawiki is the future of maps soon to
>> be added to wikipedia.
>>
>> page:
>> https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Maps/Conversation_about_interactive_map_use
>>
>> talk page:
>> https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Talk:Maps/Conversation_about_interactive_map_use
>>
>> I would ask you to have a look at it and respond by adding your
>> opinion to the pages.
>>
>> It is a great chance to have your say on the maps that will be seen on
>> one of the most visited websites in the world.
>>
>> Thank you,
>> S.
>>
>> ___
>> talk mailing list
>> talk@openstreetmap.org
>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
>
>
>
>
> --
> @osm_seattle
> osm_seattle.snowandsnow.us
> OpenStreetMap: Maps with a human touch



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Re: [OSM-talk] osm maps on wikipedia - discussion

[Guillaume Rischard]

On 29 Apr 2016, at 14:46, Richard Fairhurst  wrote:
> 
> Frederik Ramm wrote:
>> We'd have to explain to Wikipedia users that what they see on our 
>> maps might not be what they expect, and that we do *not* want 
>> them to fix it...
> 
> I've just created a quick, friendly wiki page to explain that and other
> differences:
> 
> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Welcome_to_Wikipedia_users 
> 
The mediawiki discussion mentions disputed borders. We often include borders 
that can’t really be surveyed or checked as facts on the ground. What should we 
say about them on that page?

I’ve asked for clarification about the “bad or outdated” borders: 
https://www.mediawiki.org/w/index.php?title=Topic:T30iq8fsfdecvl3m&topic_showPostId=t30iq8fsfhcf3p1u#flow-post-t30iq8fsfhcf3p1u
 


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Re: [OSM-talk] osm maps on wikipedia - discussion

[Richard Fairhurst]

Frederik Ramm wrote:
> We'd have to explain to Wikipedia users that what they see on our 
> maps might not be what they expect, and that we do *not* want 
> them to fix it...

I've just created a quick, friendly wiki page to explain that and other
differences:

http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Welcome_to_Wikipedia_users

Richard



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Re: [OSM-talk] osm maps on wikipedia - discussion

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

sent from a phone

> Il giorno 29 apr 2016, alle ore 00:53, Frederik Ramm  ha 
> scritto:
> 
> but whether or not the UN have approved
> something is not what governs our mapping.


+1, as we see in politics, true global players give a ship what the UN says ;-)

cheers,
Martin 
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Re: [OSM-talk] osm maps on wikipedia - discussion

[Frederik Ramm]

Hi,

On 04/28/2016 11:22 PM, Yves wrote:
> Concerning borders, Wikipedia could have a different way of dealing with
> disputed territories, and OSM way of handling things may or may not be
> appropriate.

True. A potential "con" for OSM could be that Wikipedia has different
standards of how to establish boundaries than OSM, and that Wikipedia
users could turn to OSM to "fix" things according to Wikipedia standards.

For example, OSM often gets emails saying "the UN have approved this
therefore it must be in your data" (or "the UN have not approved this
therefore it must not"), but whether or not the UN have approved
something is not what governs our mapping.

We'd have to explain to Wikipedia users that what they see on our maps
might not be what they expect, and that we do *not* want them to fix it...

Bye
Frederik

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Re: [OSM-talk] osm maps on wikipedia - discussion

[Yves]

Concerning borders,  Wikipedia could have a different  way of dealing  with 
disputed  territories,  and OSM way of handling things may or may not be 
appropriate. 
Yves

Le 28 avril 2016 22:38:37 GMT+02:00, Clifford Snow  a 
écrit :
>Simone,
>I'm not a Wikimedia user but maybe you could clarify a question for me.
>Under the con's is the statement "in many cases OpenStreetMap's
>territorial
>borders are bad or outdated" Where does this opinion come from? Please
>understand that I'm not necessarily disagreeing, but it seems to be a
>broad
>generalization.
>
>One of the Pro arguments might be "If the map data is wrong, you can
>fix
>it."
>
>
>On Thu, Apr 28, 2016 at 4:19 AM, Simone Cortesi 
>wrote:
>
>> Hello,
>> currently being discussed on mediawiki is the future of maps soon to
>> be added to wikipedia.
>>
>> page:
>>
>https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Maps/Conversation_about_interactive_map_use
>>
>> talk page:
>>
>https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Talk:Maps/Conversation_about_interactive_map_use
>>
>> I would ask you to have a look at it and respond by adding your
>> opinion to the pages.
>>
>> It is a great chance to have your say on the maps that will be seen
>on
>> one of the most visited websites in the world.
>>
>> Thank you,
>> S.
>>
>> ___
>> talk mailing list
>> talk@openstreetmap.org
>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
>>
>
>
>
>-- 
>@osm_seattle
>osm_seattle.snowandsnow.us
>OpenStreetMap: Maps with a human touch
>
>
>
>
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Re: [OSM-talk] osm maps on wikipedia - discussion

[Clifford Snow]

Simone,
I'm not a Wikimedia user but maybe you could clarify a question for me.
Under the con's is the statement "in many cases OpenStreetMap's territorial
borders are bad or outdated" Where does this opinion come from? Please
understand that I'm not necessarily disagreeing, but it seems to be a broad
generalization.

One of the Pro arguments might be "If the map data is wrong, you can fix
it."


On Thu, Apr 28, 2016 at 4:19 AM, Simone Cortesi  wrote:

> Hello,
> currently being discussed on mediawiki is the future of maps soon to
> be added to wikipedia.
>
> page:
> https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Maps/Conversation_about_interactive_map_use
>
> talk page:
> https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Talk:Maps/Conversation_about_interactive_map_use
>
> I would ask you to have a look at it and respond by adding your
> opinion to the pages.
>
> It is a great chance to have your say on the maps that will be seen on
> one of the most visited websites in the world.
>
> Thank you,
> S.
>
> ___
> talk mailing list
> talk@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
>



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[OSM-talk] osm maps on wikipedia - discussion

[Simone Cortesi]

Hello,
currently being discussed on mediawiki is the future of maps soon to
be added to wikipedia.

page: https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Maps/Conversation_about_interactive_map_use

talk page: 
https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Talk:Maps/Conversation_about_interactive_map_use

I would ask you to have a look at it and respond by adding your
opinion to the pages.

It is a great chance to have your say on the maps that will be seen on
one of the most visited websites in the world.

Thank you,
S.

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