Re: [OSM-talk] vandalism on OSM
2008/10/14 Stefan Monnier <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >>> Subtle vandalism will always be the hardest to spot. If it is > >>> imagined that it might become a problem, then perhaps uploading a > >>> change to anything which already existed could notify the last 1 or > >>> 2 people that amended that feature, as they are the most likely to > >>> know what is correct or be in a position to double check if they > >>> doubt what they did previously. > >> This would be very useful indeed. Not just for vandalism. > > A good diff tool or better a diff API call would be helpful as well. > > With that you could periodically look over the changes in "your" area. > > I have better things to do than keep an eye on the various parts that > I changed in the past. That's what computers are for. Which is why > I think it'd be *much* better if any change automatically sends > a heads-up email to the previous author(s). > +1 from me on this. Though I think lots of little edits around large towns could be come quite annoying :) ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] vandalism on OSM
I now use itoworld to give me a RSS feed for sessions of updates in "my" area (or indeed any defined area) Tristan 2008/10/14 Stefan Monnier <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >>> Subtle vandalism will always be the hardest to spot. If it is > >>> imagined that it might become a problem, then perhaps uploading a > >>> change to anything which already existed could notify the last 1 or > >>> 2 people that amended that feature, as they are the most likely to > >>> know what is correct or be in a position to double check if they > >>> doubt what they did previously. > >> This would be very useful indeed. Not just for vandalism. > > A good diff tool or better a diff API call would be helpful as well. > > With that you could periodically look over the changes in "your" area. > > I have better things to do than keep an eye on the various parts that > I changed in the past. That's what computers are for. Which is why > I think it'd be *much* better if any change automatically sends > a heads-up email to the previous author(s). > > >Stefan > > > ___ > talk mailing list > talk@openstreetmap.org > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk > -- Tristan Scott BSc(Hons) Yare Valley Technical Services www.yvts.co.uk 07837 205829 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] vandalism on OSM
>>> Subtle vandalism will always be the hardest to spot. If it is >>> imagined that it might become a problem, then perhaps uploading a >>> change to anything which already existed could notify the last 1 or >>> 2 people that amended that feature, as they are the most likely to >>> know what is correct or be in a position to double check if they >>> doubt what they did previously. >> This would be very useful indeed. Not just for vandalism. > A good diff tool or better a diff API call would be helpful as well. > With that you could periodically look over the changes in "your" area. I have better things to do than keep an eye on the various parts that I changed in the past. That's what computers are for. Which is why I think it'd be *much* better if any change automatically sends a heads-up email to the previous author(s). Stefan ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] vandalism on OSM
On Wed, Oct 08, 2008 at 02:34:11PM +0200, Stanislav Brabec wrote: > A completely different community project "Discogs" has following policy: > - You can subscribe to news in area of your interest. > - Voting on new data: Tell, how correct and accurate are these changes > are. ... > - Data with more votes are considered as valid. Like in musicbrainz.org (a project I like a lot) where people enter loads of information, but it never gets voted on because it's a boring an ddumb task? :-) spaetz ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] vandalism on OSM
Stanislav Brabec wrote: > A completely different community project "Discogs" has following policy: > - You can subscribe to news in area of your interest. > - Voting on new data: Tell, how correct and accurate are these changes > are. > - Vote is a privilege, new users don't have vote privilege. Automatic > system gives or removes privilege to vote depending on defined > criteria (number of correct submissions, voting frequency etc.) > - New data appear with "needs vote" flag, even if submitted by users > with vote privileges. > - Data with more votes are considered as valid. -1 to any more voting on anything in general. Consensus is not the same as voting, and votes can be rigged, especially online. -- Jonathan (Jonobennett) ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] vandalism on OSM
> - Vote is a privilege, new users don't have vote privilege. -1, sorry. cheers, maning -- |-|--| | __.-._ |"Ohhh. Great warrior. Wars not make one great." -Yoda | | '-._"7' |"Freedom is still the most radical idea of all" -N.Branden| | /'.-c |Linux registered user #402901, http://counter.li.org/ | | | /T |http://esambale.wikispaces.com| | _)_/LI |-|--| ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] vandalism on OSM
Matthias Julius wrote: > Stefan Monnier <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > >> Subtle vandalism will always be the hardest to spot. If it is > >> imagined that it might become a problem, then perhaps uploading a > >> change to anything which already existed could notify the last 1 or > >> 2 people that amended that feature, as they are the most likely to > >> know what is correct or be in a position to double check if they > >> doubt what they did previously. > > > > This would be very useful indeed. Not just for vandalism. > > A good diff tool or better a diff API call would be helpful as well. > With that you could periodically look over the changes in "your" area. A completely different community project "Discogs" has following policy: - You can subscribe to news in area of your interest. - Voting on new data: Tell, how correct and accurate are these changes are. - Vote is a privilege, new users don't have vote privilege. Automatic system gives or removes privilege to vote depending on defined criteria (number of correct submissions, voting frequency etc.) - New data appear with "needs vote" flag, even if submitted by users with vote privileges. - Data with more votes are considered as valid. One then can decide to use or ignore data without sufficient confirmation. -- Stanislav Brabec http://www.penguin.cz/~utx ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] vandalism on OSM
On Mon, Oct 6, 2008 at 9:11 PM, Matthias Julius <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote: > > > The first step will be a proper "way back" machine. But it hasn't been > > discussed yet, much less designed or implemented : > > http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Talk:OSM_Protocol_Version_0.6 > > Well, first you need to detect the error before you can revert it. > Well, if someone accidentally merges 2 ways with different names, you need a "way back machine" to see what each part was called before his error. Detecting all changes can be as simple as comparing the current vector data with the vector data at a chosen historic date. Hiding trivial changes are not important at this stage. In many cases reverting may only be possible by manually redrawing the whole area, but I'm OK with that provided that I can see the map at the chosen date. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] vandalism on OSM
"Nic Roets" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > On Mon, Oct 6, 2008 at 8:05 PM, Matthias Julius <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote: > >> >> A good diff tool or better a diff API call would be helpful as well. >> With that you could periodically look over the changes in "your" area. >> > > The first step will be a proper "way back" machine. But it hasn't been > discussed yet, much less designed or implemented : > http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Talk:OSM_Protocol_Version_0.6 Well, first you need to detect the error before you can revert it. Matthias ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] vandalism on OSM
On Mon, Oct 6, 2008 at 8:05 PM, Matthias Julius <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote: > > A good diff tool or better a diff API call would be helpful as well. > With that you could periodically look over the changes in "your" area. > The first step will be a proper "way back" machine. But it hasn't been discussed yet, much less designed or implemented : http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Talk:OSM_Protocol_Version_0.6 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] vandalism on OSM
Stefan Monnier <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: >> Subtle vandalism will always be the hardest to spot. If it is >> imagined that it might become a problem, then perhaps uploading a >> change to anything which already existed could notify the last 1 or >> 2 people that amended that feature, as they are the most likely to >> know what is correct or be in a position to double check if they >> doubt what they did previously. > > This would be very useful indeed. Not just for vandalism. A good diff tool or better a diff API call would be helpful as well. With that you could periodically look over the changes in "your" area. Matthias ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] vandalism on OSM
> Subtle vandalism will always be the hardest to spot. If it is > imagined that it might become a problem, then perhaps uploading a > change to anything which already existed could notify the last 1 or > 2 people that amended that feature, as they are the most likely to > know what is correct or be in a position to double check if they > doubt what they did previously. This would be very useful indeed. Not just for vandalism. E.g. I recently fixed a misidentified oneway street next to my home (it is oneway, but the other way). A week later I noticed that my "misidentified" oneway street was actually correct in another part of the street (it seems it's oneway everywhere, but not always the same way), so I had to go and see where the direction changed. So my first change fixed one part of the street and broke another. It's only be pure coincidence that I noticed the breakage. If the previous guy who set the property had been notified, he might have been able to yell. I'm pretty sure I introduced other such breakage already and I haven't discovered it yet. Stefan ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] vandalism on OSM
Yes yes! We have been doing some tedious work with servers to increase our capacity which is now done and we hope to be able get planet coverage in the near future. Thanks for the feedback and encouragement :) Regards, Peter > -Original Message- > From: Andy Allan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: 06 October 2008 12:53 > To: Peter Miller > Cc: Barnett, Phillip; Talk Openstreetmap > Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] vandalism on OSM > > On Fri, Oct 3, 2008 at 4:23 PM, Peter Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > > > Using OSM Mapper it is already possible to identify who is changing data > > within an defined area. > > Talking of which, is it going to cover the US soon? I'm patiently > waiting on it :-) It's been useful to me, most recently in Cape Town > for the FOSS4G conference, and I'd love it to become world-wide. > > Cheers, > Andy ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] vandalism on OSM
On Fri, Oct 3, 2008 at 4:23 PM, Peter Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Using OSM Mapper it is already possible to identify who is changing data > within an defined area. Talking of which, is it going to cover the US soon? I'm patiently waiting on it :-) It's been useful to me, most recently in Cape Town for the FOSS4G conference, and I'd love it to become world-wide. Cheers, Andy ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] vandalism on OSM
Jeffrey wrote: > Well, none of the schemes proposed so far actually deal with > the case of subtle vandalism. Subtle vandalism will always be the hardest to spot. If it is imagined that it might become a problem, then perhaps uploading a change to anything which already existed could notify the last 1 or 2 people that amended that feature, as they are the most likely to know what is correct or be in a position to double check if they doubt what they did previously. That still wouldn't handle addition of things that don't exist type vandalism, but hopefully that would be a little easier to spot. Ed ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] vandalism on OSM
Using OSM Mapper it is already possible to identify who is changing data within an defined area. I use this to monitor for changes in areas I care about using RSS setting up an RSS feed to check for all changes made by people other than me in the area. We developed the functionally in the product because it was needed. More about it here: http://itoworld.blogspot.com/2008/07/new-osm-mapper-for-openstreetmap.html We can't currently identify deleted features, and this is a limitation that we will overcome soon, but we can check for name changes and the like. Since using it I have occasionally spotted unintentional problems produced by people who are trying to help, but have spotted no deliberated areas in my area. Regards, Peter Miller www.itoworld.com > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:talk- > [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Barnett, Phillip > Sent: 03 October 2008 12:26 > To: 'Frederik Ramm'; vegard > Cc: talk@openstreetmap.org > Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] vandolism on OSM > > > > > > > PHILLIP BARNETT > SERVER MANAGER > > 200 GRAY'S INN ROAD > LONDON > WC1X 8XZ > UNITED KINGDOM > T +44 (0)20 7430 4474 > F > E [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://WWW.ITN.CO.UK > P Please consider the environment. Do you really need to print this > email? > -Original Message- > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:talk- > [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Frederik Ramm > Sent: 03 October 2008 11:25 > To: vegard > Cc: talk@openstreetmap.org > Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] vandolism on OSM > > Hi, > > vegard wrote: > > But we'll need a more permanent measure against vandalism. > > Something that'll make it easy to reverse things. > > But note that our most potent weapon against vandalism is the ease and > speed with which it can be undone. > > > > Frederick, > That's only the case for OBVIOUS vandalism or accident, as in the OP, that > can be seen in a casual 'fly-over' the map. What about subtle vandalism > (renaming random streets, changing one-way directions etc) > Even in areas that I have personally mapped, I doubt that I'd be able to > tell at a glance that this had happened without digging out my original > notes and comparing street by street(in effect, remapping the area) which > I wouldn't do without a huge visual clue. > > Cheers > > Please Note: > > > > Any views or opinions are solely those of the author and do not > necessarily represent > those of Independent Television News Limited unless specifically stated. > This email and any files attached are confidential and intended solely for > the use of the individual > or entity to which they are addressed. > If you have received this email in error, please notify > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Please note that to ensure regulatory compliance and for the protection of > our clients and business, > we may monitor and read messages sent to and from our systems. > > Thank You. > > > > ___ > talk mailing list > talk@openstreetmap.org > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
