Re: [OSM-talk] weird "excessive bounces" warnings from the list
On Thu, Oct 04, 2018 at 04:15:59PM +0100, David Earl wrote: > Lots of OSM email list mail ends up in my GMail spam. AFAICS this is > because the remailer doesn't deal with DKIM headers properly (it changes > the signed content, To: for example, so the signature test fails) and some > providers (btmail for example) have DMARC records which force the rejection > of such emails by the recipient, and even if they don't the dkim failure > can increase the spam score over the threshold. The envelope-from seems to > be correct so that it sees osm as the sender (even though that's not what > From: says) and so uses OSM's SPF correctly. interesting, my gmail inbox has 11788 OSM mails and only 39 in the spam folder, out of those one false positive. Richard pgpIcO1SqSRo_.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] weird "excessive bounces" warnings from the list
Lots of OSM email list mail ends up in my GMail spam. AFAICS this is because the remailer doesn't deal with DKIM headers properly (it changes the signed content, To: for example, so the signature test fails) and some providers (btmail for example) have DMARC records which force the rejection of such emails by the recipient, and even if they don't the dkim failure can increase the spam score over the threshold. The envelope-from seems to be correct so that it sees osm as the sender (even though that's not what From: says) and so uses OSM's SPF correctly. David On Tue, 2 Oct 2018 at 07:05, Tom Hughes wrote: > On 02/10/2018 04:21, Paul Johnson wrote: > > > Only if the sender is sending from a server other than their normal mail > > server, something readily detectable in the headers. Google seems to > > use the same strategy as I did running my own mail server for about 12 > > years before moving to gsuite, which is, hey, not totally > > standards-compliant, since it'll go through DATA before deciding whether > > or not to accept or reject, but very workable to give the sender some > > idea what happened. > > Once it has gone through the list it appears to be being sent from > our mail server. > > Tom > > -- > Tom Hughes (t...@compton.nu) > http://compton.nu/ > > ___ > talk mailing list > talk@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk > ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] weird "excessive bounces" warnings from the list
On 02/10/2018 04:21, Paul Johnson wrote: Only if the sender is sending from a server other than their normal mail server, something readily detectable in the headers. Google seems to use the same strategy as I did running my own mail server for about 12 years before moving to gsuite, which is, hey, not totally standards-compliant, since it'll go through DATA before deciding whether or not to accept or reject, but very workable to give the sender some idea what happened. Once it has gone through the list it appears to be being sent from our mail server. Tom -- Tom Hughes (t...@compton.nu) http://compton.nu/ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] weird "excessive bounces" warnings from the list
El mar., 2 de oct. de 2018 a la(s) 00:23, Paul Johnson (ba...@ursamundi.org) escribió: > > > > On Mon, Oct 1, 2018 at 3:09 PM Tom Hughes wrote: >> >> On 01/10/2018 19:54, Richard wrote: >> >> > The messages go straight into a dedicated gmail inbox without any >> > filters. >> > As far as I know gmail will only ever reject messages that contain >> > what looks to it like executable programs - attached files >> > (*.exe, *.com, *.bat) >> >> It also rejects email from a sender whose SPF record tells >> it to - that is a problem when mail is forwarded by a mailing >> list because it no longer appears to come from a "valid" address >> for the sender so services like gmail which believe SPF records >> with a "hard reject" flag will reject the email, causing us to >> see a bounce. > > > Only if the sender is sending from a server other than their normal mail > server, something readily detectable in the headers. Google seems to use the > same strategy as I did running my own mail server for about 12 years before > moving to gsuite, which is, hey, not totally standards-compliant, since it'll > go through DATA before deciding whether or not to accept or reject, but very > workable to give the sender some idea what happened. As far as GMail is concerned, the sender *is* sending from a server other than their normal mail server. The email has @yahoo.fr yet it arrived from OpenStreetMap servers. In addition the subject and body got modified ([osm-talk] in subject and unsubscription instructions at the end). Your email got marked as "dkim=neutral (body hash did not verify)", but messages from Yahoo are treated more strictly because Yahoo publishes DMARC records requesting recipients to be more strict, which is somewhat incompatible with mailing lists. See: https://www.linuxchix.org/content/mailing-list-changes -- Nicolás ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] weird "excessive bounces" warnings from the list
On Mon, Oct 1, 2018 at 3:09 PM Tom Hughes wrote: > On 01/10/2018 19:54, Richard wrote: > > > The messages go straight into a dedicated gmail inbox without any > > filters. > > As far as I know gmail will only ever reject messages that contain > > what looks to it like executable programs - attached files > > (*.exe, *.com, *.bat) > > It also rejects email from a sender whose SPF record tells > it to - that is a problem when mail is forwarded by a mailing > list because it no longer appears to come from a "valid" address > for the sender so services like gmail which believe SPF records > with a "hard reject" flag will reject the email, causing us to > see a bounce. > Only if the sender is sending from a server other than their normal mail server, something readily detectable in the headers. Google seems to use the same strategy as I did running my own mail server for about 12 years before moving to gsuite, which is, hey, not totally standards-compliant, since it'll go through DATA before deciding whether or not to accept or reject, but very workable to give the sender some idea what happened. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] weird "excessive bounces" warnings from the list
It's not just that, but it's across a large number of gmail (or gsuite) users, also meeting a certain ratio of users who reported what they got as spam. On Mon, Oct 1, 2018 at 2:03 PM James wrote: > I get it too, it might be rejecting them because the mailing list is > sending too many emails to too many gmail addresses(way to combat spam: > limit same messages to different recipients) > > On Mon., Oct. 1, 2018, 2:56 p.m. Richard, wrote: > >> Hi, >> >> from time to time I am getting messages like >> >> <> excessive bounces The last bounce received from you was dated >> 30-Sep-2018. >> >> >> Any idea.. what could be the cause? Unfortunately I don't see any way >> to figure out which message did cause this. >> I notice the first message I did not receive was >> >> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk/2018-September/081459.html >> but is this the "offending" message? >> >> The messages go straight into a dedicated gmail inbox without any >> filters. >> As far as I know gmail will only ever reject messages that contain >> what looks to it like executable programs - attached files >> (*.exe, *.com, *.bat) >> >> Richard >> >> >> >> ___ >> talk mailing list >> talk@openstreetmap.org >> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk >> > ___ > talk mailing list > talk@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk > ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] weird "excessive bounces" warnings from the list
On 01/10/2018 19:54, Richard wrote: The messages go straight into a dedicated gmail inbox without any filters. As far as I know gmail will only ever reject messages that contain what looks to it like executable programs - attached files (*.exe, *.com, *.bat) It also rejects email from a sender whose SPF record tells it to - that is a problem when mail is forwarded by a mailing list because it no longer appears to come from a "valid" address for the sender so services like gmail which believe SPF records with a "hard reject" flag will reject the email, causing us to see a bounce. So the real problem is subscribers to the list using services like yahoo mail which ignore the reality of how email works and think they can specify exactly where yahoo.com email should appear to come form. Tom -- Tom Hughes (t...@compton.nu) http://compton.nu/ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] weird "excessive bounces" warnings from the list
On Mon, Oct 01, 2018 at 02:59:38PM -0400, James wrote: > I get it too, it might be rejecting them because the mailing list is > sending too many emails to too many gmail addresses(way to combat spam: > limit same messages to different recipients) hm.. receiving many Linux related maling lists and not seeing this problem, at least not with a gmail account. Richard ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] weird "excessive bounces" warnings from the list
I get them too. I've also remarked that i don't get messages from some specific addresses. By the way, when replying to a message on talk (but not on any other list i'm subscribed to), the email client wants to reply to the e-mail's sender instead of talk@openstreetmap.org. It would be helpful if all OSM mailing lists would behave the same. Regards Markus On Mon, 1 Oct 2018 at 21:33, john whelan wrote: > > On gmail I get the same from time to time. > > Cheerio John > > On Mon, 1 Oct 2018, 2:56 pm Richard, wrote: >> >> Hi, >> >> from time to time I am getting messages like >> >> <> excessive bounces The last bounce received from you was dated >> 30-Sep-2018. >> >> >> Any idea.. what could be the cause? Unfortunately I don't see any way >> to figure out which message did cause this. >> I notice the first message I did not receive was >> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk/2018-September/081459.html >> but is this the "offending" message? >> >> The messages go straight into a dedicated gmail inbox without any >> filters. >> As far as I know gmail will only ever reject messages that contain >> what looks to it like executable programs - attached files >> (*.exe, *.com, *.bat) >> >> Richard >> >> >> >> ___ >> talk mailing list >> talk@openstreetmap.org >> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk > > ___ > talk mailing list > talk@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] weird "excessive bounces" warnings from the list
On 18-10-01 20:54:13, Richard wrote: Hi, from time to time I am getting messages like <> Any idea.. what could be the cause? Unfortunately I don't see any way to figure out which message did cause this. I notice the first message I did not receive was https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk/2018-September/081459.html but is this the "offending" message? The messages go straight into a dedicated gmail inbox without any filters. As far as I know gmail will only ever reject messages that contain what looks to it like executable programs - attached files (*.exe, *.com, *.bat) Richard I'm on Midadu and I get these messages every few weeks on various mailing lists. I think it's to do with the way they handle spam. They let me whitelist addresses and it helps a little. signature.asc Description: PGP signature ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] weird "excessive bounces" warnings from the list
On gmail I get the same from time to time. Cheerio John On Mon, 1 Oct 2018, 2:56 pm Richard, wrote: > Hi, > > from time to time I am getting messages like > > < excessive bounces The last bounce received from you was dated > 30-Sep-2018. >> > > Any idea.. what could be the cause? Unfortunately I don't see any way > to figure out which message did cause this. > I notice the first message I did not receive was > > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk/2018-September/081459.html > but is this the "offending" message? > > The messages go straight into a dedicated gmail inbox without any > filters. > As far as I know gmail will only ever reject messages that contain > what looks to it like executable programs - attached files > (*.exe, *.com, *.bat) > > Richard > > > > ___ > talk mailing list > talk@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk > ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] weird "excessive bounces" warnings from the list
I get it too, it might be rejecting them because the mailing list is sending too many emails to too many gmail addresses(way to combat spam: limit same messages to different recipients) On Mon., Oct. 1, 2018, 2:56 p.m. Richard, wrote: > Hi, > > from time to time I am getting messages like > > < excessive bounces The last bounce received from you was dated > 30-Sep-2018. >> > > Any idea.. what could be the cause? Unfortunately I don't see any way > to figure out which message did cause this. > I notice the first message I did not receive was > > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk/2018-September/081459.html > but is this the "offending" message? > > The messages go straight into a dedicated gmail inbox without any > filters. > As far as I know gmail will only ever reject messages that contain > what looks to it like executable programs - attached files > (*.exe, *.com, *.bat) > > Richard > > > > ___ > talk mailing list > talk@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk > ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] weird "excessive bounces" warnings from the list
Hi, from time to time I am getting messages like <> Any idea.. what could be the cause? Unfortunately I don't see any way to figure out which message did cause this. I notice the first message I did not receive was https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk/2018-September/081459.html but is this the "offending" message? The messages go straight into a dedicated gmail inbox without any filters. As far as I know gmail will only ever reject messages that contain what looks to it like executable programs - attached files (*.exe, *.com, *.bat) Richard ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
