Re: [OSM-talk] difference between waterway=canal and waterway=drain
Karl Newman wrote: Wow, that's not obvious to the casual (non-UK) observer. In the US, the usage of canal is different. They're almost never navigable, and even small drainage ditches are commonly called canals. Almost no-one here would call any kind of waterway a drain. Definitely clarify that on the Wiki. I've never heard a non-navigable waterway referred to as a canal, here in the Midwest USA. I've only what you're describing called a drainage ditch (as you said) or irrigation ditch depending on their intended purpose. ditch is IMO a reasonable combination of the two (since the intended purpose is generally not immediately obvious) -Alex Mauer hawke ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] difference between waterway=canal and waterway=drain
On 16 May 2008, at 16:50, Alex Mauer wrote: Karl Newman wrote: Wow, that's not obvious to the casual (non-UK) observer. In the US, the usage of canal is different. They're almost never navigable, and even small drainage ditches are commonly called canals. Almost no-one here would call any kind of waterway a drain. Definitely clarify that on the Wiki. I've never heard a non-navigable waterway referred to as a canal, here in the Midwest USA. I've only what you're describing called a drainage ditch (as you said) or irrigation ditch depending on their intended purpose. ditch is IMO a reasonable combination of the two (since the intended purpose is generally not immediately obvious) I have the only remaining part of the Croydon canal near me. It is only a few hundred metres long, and is now left to nature. A century ago the other parts of the canal were filled in and changed to railway. Shaun ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] difference between waterway=canal and waterway=drain
Shaun McDonald wrote: I have the only remaining part of the Croydon canal near me. It is only a few hundred metres long, and is now left to nature. A century ago the other parts of the canal were filled in and changed to railway. Presumably that's only called a canal for historical reasons then? -Alex Mauer hawke ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] difference between waterway=canal and waterway=drain
On Fri, May 16, 2008 at 8:50 AM, Alex Mauer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Karl Newman wrote: Wow, that's not obvious to the casual (non-UK) observer. In the US, the usage of canal is different. They're almost never navigable, and even small drainage ditches are commonly called canals. Almost no-one here would call any kind of waterway a drain. Definitely clarify that on the Wiki. I've never heard a non-navigable waterway referred to as a canal, here in the Midwest USA. I've only what you're describing called a drainage ditch (as you said) or irrigation ditch depending on their intended purpose. ditch is IMO a reasonable combination of the two (since the intended purpose is generally not immediately obvious) -Alex Mauer hawke If you do a search for irrigation canal or drainage canal you'll see plenty of images that show the kinds of waterways I'm thinking of. Many could be called a ditch, but canal is commonly used too (around here in California anyway). Interestingly, Wikipedia refers to an aqueduct as a specialized kind of canal for supplying water. Karl ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] difference between waterway=canal and waterway=drain
On 16 May 2008, at 18:12, Alex Mauer wrote: Shaun McDonald wrote: I have the only remaining part of the Croydon canal near me. It is only a few hundred metres long, and is now left to nature. A century ago the other parts of the canal were filled in and changed to railway. Presumably that's only called a canal for historical reasons then? Yes. Is there anything wron with that? Shaun ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] difference between waterway=canal and waterway=drain
Shaun McDonald wrote: Presumably that's only called a canal for historical reasons then? Yes. Is there anything wron with that? Nope. I was just that I was wondering if it had some reason beyond its physical characteristics for being tagged as a canal. On the other hand, it might be better to just not tag it as a canal (just giving it the relevant name of Croyden canal instead) so that someone expecting a navigable waterway isn't disappointed. -Alex Mauer hawke ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] difference between waterway=canal and waterway=drain
On 16 May 2008, at 21:37, OJ W wrote: I'm still interested in this definition of aquaeduct though, since the wikipedia definition of man-made water-carrying thingie differs from OSM's definition of waterway on a bridge My definition of a canal is some waterway on a bridge. Shaun ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] difference between waterway=canal and waterway=drain
Both are created by man. A canal is normally navigable and a drain is not. A canal is for carrying goods and people, a drain is for transporting water much like a river but the drain has been dug by man rather than nature. Drains can be anything from quite narrow watercourses to very large constructions depending on how much water they carry. Hope this helps. Cheers Andy -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:talk- [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Raphael Studer Sent: 14 May 2008 12:01 PM To: OSM Talk List Subject: [OSM-talk] difference between waterway=canal and waterway=drain Hi, As a not native english speaker, I'm looking for the difference between canal (http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Tag:waterway%3Dcanal) and drain (http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Tag:waterway%3Ddrain). By looking at the Map Features, there are nearly the same. Canal: An artificial open waterway used for transportation, waterpower, or irrigation Drain: An artificial waterway for carrying storm water or industrial discharge. Thanks for your help. Raphael ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 269.23.16/1431 - Release Date: 13/05/2008 7:55 PM ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] difference between waterway=canal and waterway=drain
Andy Robinson \(blackadder-lists\) wrote: Both are created by man. A canal is normally navigable and a drain is not. A canal is for carrying goods and people, a drain is for transporting water much like a river but the drain has been dug by man rather than nature. Indeed. Sometimes drains, though built principally for irrigation/drainage, are later used for navigation as well - in the UK, the Middle Level (Cambridgeshire) and Witham Navigable Drains (Lincolnshire) are probably the two best examples. I'd tag these as waterway=drain, boat=yes. cheers Richard ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] difference between waterway=canal and waterway=drain
Both are created by man. A canal is normally navigable and a drain is not. A canal is for carrying goods and people, a drain is for transporting water much like a river but the drain has been dug by man rather than nature. Drains can be anything from quite narrow watercourses to very large constructions depending on how much water they carry. So first criteria would be: a man made waterway, secondary: navigable (so it would be a question of size of canal and/or bridges). If thats correct, I'd like if someone with a good english could add this hint on the Map_Features page. Regards, Raphael ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] difference between waterway=canal and waterway=drain
Karl Newman wrote: Wow, that's not obvious to the casual (non-UK) observer. In the US, the usage of canal is different. They're almost never navigable, and even small drainage ditches are commonly called canals. Almost no-one here would call any kind of waterway a drain. Definitely clarify that on the Wiki. So what do you call the big man made 'rivers' that barges go down? Rory ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] difference between waterway=canal and waterway=drain
On Wed, May 14, 2008 at 8:03 AM, Rory McCann [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Karl Newman wrote: Wow, that's not obvious to the casual (non-UK) observer. In the US, the usage of canal is different. They're almost never navigable, and even small drainage ditches are commonly called canals. Almost no-one here would call any kind of waterway a drain. Definitely clarify that on the Wiki. So what do you call the big man made 'rivers' that barges go down? Rory I did say *almost* never. Certainly there are large navigable canals (more common in the Eastern US) but if you were to look at the sum total of all the waterways called canals here, the navigable ones would make up a tiny portion. Karl ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] difference between waterway=canal and waterway=drain
Karl Newman wrote: Both are created by man. A canal is normally navigable and a drain is not. A canal is for carrying goods and people, a drain is for transporting water much like a river but the drain has been dug by man rather than nature. Drains can be anything from quite narrow watercourses to very large constructions depending on how much water they carry. Wow, that's not obvious to the casual (non-UK) observer. In the US, the usage of canal is different. They're almost never navigable, and even small drainage ditches are commonly called canals. Almost no-one here would call any kind of waterway a drain. Definitely clarify that on the Wiki. In the US am I right in thinking that storm water drains may only have actual water in them under flood conditions. From what I remember of car chases in films ;) -- Lester Caine - G8HFL - Contact - http://home.lsces.co.uk/lsces/wiki/?page=contact L.S.Caine Electronic Services - http://home.lsces.co.uk EnquirySolve - http://enquirysolve.com/ Model Engineers Digital Workshop - http://medw.co.uk// Firebird - http://www.firebirdsql.org/index.php ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] difference between waterway=canal and waterway=drain
On Wed, May 14, 2008 at 8:56 AM, Lester Caine [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Karl Newman wrote: Both are created by man. A canal is normally navigable and a drain is not. A canal is for carrying goods and people, a drain is for transporting water much like a river but the drain has been dug by man rather than nature. Drains can be anything from quite narrow watercourses to very large constructions depending on how much water they carry. Wow, that's not obvious to the casual (non-UK) observer. In the US, the usage of canal is different. They're almost never navigable, and even small drainage ditches are commonly called canals. Almost no-one here would call any kind of waterway a drain. Definitely clarify that on the Wiki. In the US am I right in thinking that storm water drains may only have actual water in them under flood conditions. From what I remember of car chases in films ;) -- Lester Caine - G8HFL In certain cases, yes. It depends on the season and the location. In a drainage canal near my house (would be called a stream if it were natural), the water stops flowing in summer, but there are generally pools in certain areas that hold water year round. Some drainage ditches are concrete, but most aren't--they're just cuts in the earth; sometimes they're elevated above the surrounding terrain with berms on either side (these are more commonly used for irrigation, not so much for drainage). Generally only certain large cities have the big concrete canals suitable for car chases. ;-) Karl ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] difference between waterway=canal and waterway=drain
On 14 May 2008, at 17:18, Karl Newman wrote: [..] In certain cases, yes. It depends on the season and the location. In a drainage canal near my house (would be called a stream if it were natural), the water stops flowing in summer, but there are generally pools in certain areas that hold water year round. Some drainage ditches are concrete, but most aren't--they're just cuts in the earth; sometimes they're elevated above the surrounding terrain with berms on either side (these are more commonly used for irrigation, not so much for drainage). Generally only certain large cities have the big concrete canals suitable for car chases. ;-) If it's just a cutting with no concrete, then it would just be a ditch. Shaun ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] difference between waterway=canal and waterway=drain
So would the california aqueduct be a 'drain' under that definition? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Tupman_California_California_Aqueduct_Mile_236.JPG http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=37.4868lon=-121.0883zoom=12layers=0BFT (currently taged as 'river') On Wed, May 14, 2008 at 12:09 PM, Andy Robinson (blackadder-lists) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Both are created by man. A canal is normally navigable and a drain is not. A canal is for carrying goods and people, a drain is for transporting water much like a river but the drain has been dug by man rather than nature. Drains can be anything from quite narrow watercourses to very large constructions depending on how much water they carry. Hope this helps. Cheers Andy -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:talk- [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Raphael Studer Sent: 14 May 2008 12:01 PM To: OSM Talk List Subject: [OSM-talk] difference between waterway=canal and waterway=drain Hi, As a not native english speaker, I'm looking for the difference between canal (http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Tag:waterway%3Dcanal) and drain (http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Tag:waterway%3Ddrain). By looking at the Map Features, there are nearly the same. Canal: An artificial open waterway used for transportation, waterpower, or irrigation Drain: An artificial waterway for carrying storm water or industrial discharge. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] difference between waterway=canal and waterway=drain
What is your definition of an artificial waterway? Dug and designed by man? Made of non-natural materials? Near me a few years ago was an open marshy field that was fed by a stream, with a stream exiting. Now the developers have put houses up in the field. They brought in dirt and raised the ground level, dug a connection between the entry and exit streams and landscaped around it. Is it a stream or a drain? It's not concrete (except for one bridge area), it looks like a stream, but it is man made. Stephen ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
