Re: [talk-au] suburb boundaries
On Sat, 07 Mar 2009 23:51:35 +1100 b.schulz...@scu.edu.au wrote: Hi all, It's really nice to see suburb boundaries popping up around the place, it just makes the map look that little bit more professional. Yeah it is isn't it, Franc has done some nice work. There seems to be some naming redundancy in the NSW data though. The previous nswgnb import (before my time, don't know the source or history of this) placed suburb names all around the place, and now the ABS suburb import is repeating the data. An example of this is here: http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=-32.96227lon=151.65078zoom=16layers=B000FTF What are people's thoughts about this? Should the data be sanity checked for naming consistency then the nswgnb node deleted? Or should it be kept incase some renderer doesn't understand the suburb relation? Like perhaps it would be easier for the mkgmap devs to keep the nodes rather than have them write code to make a node from the relation. You've hit an interesting point here, one I've thought about a few times without coming to any reasonable answer myself. On the one hand we have the case where we leave around we're making allowances for any program that for whatever reason doesn't support 100% of the OSM data structures. On the other we're having multiple version of the same data which have to some how be kept consistent creating more maintenance of the data. After many years working with a number of databases I've found every un-necessary duplication of data leads to headaches, but there's inevitably going to be software that gets out of date and people are going to expect the data to change for it rather than update the software :/ I think what the boundaries need (and this is where a spot where it being a relation comes in handy) is a way to make a centre node, if the centre node is there then it can be assume it will display the name of the boundary, otherwise the renders should display their own boundary. This proposed option seems to be close to that kind of thing: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/add_center_in_Relation:boundary Of course then we'd have to get the renderers to recognize that fact on not render a centre text for a multipolygon with a 'centre' (unless they already do that?) (This has the benefit of moving the name display to a place more appropriate for the suburb rather than the exact centre of the area, I'm sure we can all thing of suburbs where the demographic centre isn't the physical centre) -- =b ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
[talk-au] suburb boundaries import - Darwin quirk
I was reminiscing about Darwin via OSM and noticed this boundary quirk. The boundary was created by ABS2006 on 1 Mar 09. I thought maybe the Casino had its own boundary but its actually the creek line. http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=-12.8lon=130.84079zoom=15layers=B000FTF Franc, I presume this will be an example of the minor touch ups needed polish of your great work? Or will the boundary probably make more sense as the nearby suburbs populate and the boundary takes its proper shape? Jeff. From: Franc Carter franc.car...@gmail.com To: Ben Kelley ben.kel...@gmail.com Cc: OSM Australian Talk List talk-au@openstreetmap.org Sent: Friday, 6 March, 2009 6:38:47 AM Subject: Re: [talk-au] suburb boundaries import I only have the licensing contact - I will follow up with her and see if I can get a content person. cheers On Fri, Mar 6, 2009 at 6:43 AM, Ben Kelley ben.kel...@gmail.com wrote: Hi. Any thoughts on how to work out the real boundary when the ABS data disagrees with commonly known boundaries? I don't know why I didn't notice this when I previewed the data, but the ABS data shows the boundary for my suburb going right down the middle of my street (when I believe it to be one street o ver). This puts my house in the next suburb over. I suspect the ABS data is wrong, but any thoughts on how to find out for sure? Franc - do you have a contact at the ABS who might be interested in corrections? - Ben Kelley. -- Franc ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] suburb boundaries import
Hi. For NSW the Lands Department's Geospatial Portal http://gsp.maps.nsw.gov.au/ can show suburb boundaries in the cadastral layer. Of the area in question, where the ABS shows the boundary going neatly down the middle of my street, the NSW Lands Department shows the boundary between 1 street and 1/2 a street further south. That is, on the next street south, some houses are in my suburb, and some are in the next suburb. - Ben Kelley. 2009/3/6 Ben Kelley ben.kel...@gmail.com Hi. Any thoughts on how to work out the real boundary when the ABS data disagrees with commonly known boundaries? I don't know why I didn't notice this when I previewed the data, but the ABS data shows the boundary for my suburb going right down the middle of my street (when I believe it to be one street over). This puts my house in the next suburb over. I suspect the ABS data is wrong, but any thoughts on how to find out for sure? Franc - do you have a contact at the ABS who might be interested in corrections? - Ben Kelley. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] suburb boundaries import - Darwin quirk
Hmm yeah - that looks pretty odd. It *might* be more sensible once the process has finished, but I'm not holding my breath. But please make sure you wait until the upload as finished, as I believe the bulk_upload will get confuse if things have changed when it comes back to reuse those borders cheers On Sun, Mar 8, 2009 at 8:28 AM, Jeff Price jeff.pr...@rocketmail.comwrote: I was reminiscing about Darwin via OSM and noticed this boundary quirk. The boundary was created by ABS2006 on 1 Mar 09. I thought maybe the Casino had its own boundary but its actually the creek line. http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=-12.8lon=130.84079zoom=15layers=B000FTF Franc, I presume this will be an example of the minor touch ups needed polish of your great work? Or will the boundary probably make more sense as the nearby suburbs populate and the boundary takes its proper shape? Jeff. -- *From:* Franc Carter franc.car...@gmail.com *To:* Ben Kelley ben.kel...@gmail.com *Cc:* OSM Australian Talk List talk-au@openstreetmap.org *Sent:* Friday, 6 March, 2009 6:38:47 AM *Subject:* Re: [talk-au] suburb boundaries import I only have the licensing contact - I will follow up with her and see if I can get a content person. cheers On Fri, Mar 6, 2009 at 6:43 AM, Ben Kelley ben.kel...@gmail.com wrote: Hi. Any thoughts on how to work out the real boundary when the ABS data disagrees with commonly known boundaries? I don't know why I didn't notice this when I previewed the data, but the ABS data shows the boundary for my suburb going right down the middle of my street (when I believe it to be one street o ver). This puts my house in the next suburb over. I suspect the ABS data is wrong, but any thoughts on how to find out for sure? Franc - do you have a contact at the ABS who might be interested in corrections? - Ben Kelley. -- Franc ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au -- Franc ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] suburb boundaries import
Hi Ben, This raises an interesting copyright question. If, from multiple sources (Dept of Lands, UBD, ask the council/auspost etc) you can show that the ABS boundary is wrong how do we legally correct it? Without a sign on the ground that states the change of suburb we don't really have another free source of this data. I wonder what the legality is of reading lots of sources then just plonking source=knowledge in there. Brent (Biogenesis_) - Original Message - From: Ben Kelley ben.kel...@gmail.com Date: Sunday, March 8, 2009 8:48 am Subject: Re: [talk-au] suburb boundaries import To: OSM Australian Talk List talk-au@openstreetmap.org, Franc Carter franc.car...@gmail.com Hi. For NSW the Lands Department's Geospatial Portal http://gsp.maps.nsw.gov.au/ can show suburb boundaries in the cadastrallayer. Of the area in question, where the ABS shows the boundary going neatly down the middle of my street, the NSW Lands Department shows the boundary between 1 street and 1/2 a street further south. That is, on the next street south, some houses are in my suburb, and some are in the next suburb. - Ben Kelley. 2009/3/6 Ben Kelley ben.kel...@gmail.com Hi. Any thoughts on how to work out the real boundary when the ABS data disagrees with commonly known boundaries? I don't know why I didn't notice this when I previewed the data, but the ABS data shows the boundary for my suburb going right down the middle of my street (when I believe it to be one street over). This puts my house in the next suburb over. I suspect the ABS data is wrong, but any thoughts on how to find out for sure? Franc - do you have a contact at the ABS who might be interested in corrections? - Ben Kelley. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] suburb boundaries import
Ask the people who live in the houses. ~Cameron 2009/3/8 b.schulz...@scu.edu.au Hi Ben, This raises an interesting copyright question. If, from multiple sources (Dept of Lands, UBD, ask the council/auspost etc) you can show that the ABS boundary is wrong how do we legally correct it? Without a sign on the ground that states the change of suburb we don't really have another free source of this data. I wonder what the legality is of reading lots of sources then just plonking source=knowledge in there. Brent (Biogenesis_) - Original Message - From: Ben Kelley ben.kel...@gmail.com Date: Sunday, March 8, 2009 8:48 am Subject: Re: [talk-au] suburb boundaries import To: OSM Australian Talk List talk-au@openstreetmap.org, Franc Carter franc.car...@gmail.com Hi. For NSW the Lands Department's Geospatial Portal http://gsp.maps.nsw.gov.au/ can show suburb boundaries in the cadastrallayer. Of the area in question, where the ABS shows the boundary going neatly down the middle of my street, the NSW Lands Department shows the boundary between 1 street and 1/2 a street further south. That is, on the next street south, some houses are in my suburb, and some are in the next suburb. - Ben Kelley. 2009/3/6 Ben Kelley ben.kel...@gmail.com Hi. Any thoughts on how to work out the real boundary when the ABS data disagrees with commonly known boundaries? I don't know why I didn't notice this when I previewed the data, but the ABS data shows the boundary for my suburb going right down the middle of my street (when I believe it to be one street over). This puts my house in the next suburb over. I suspect the ABS data is wrong, but any thoughts on how to find out for sure? Franc - do you have a contact at the ABS who might be interested in corrections? - Ben Kelley. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
